Protestants, Christians, & brothers

[Dan_471]

Hello

Grace to you.

There’s an issue I want to ask about because I really want to understand how Catholics relate to non-Catholics, especially Protestants.

I’ve heard Catholics refer to Protestants as Christians and brothers. In what sense are they Christians, especially in light of John chapter 6? Do Protestants have life in themselves? Eternal life? Are they partaking of the flesh and blood of Jesus?

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Peace be with you all,
Dan Johnson

 

[petra]

Dan_471:

Hello

Grace to you.

There’s an issue I want to ask about because I really want to understand how Catholics relate to non-Catholics, especially Protestants.

I’ve heard Catholics refer to Protestants as Christians and brothers. In what sense are they Christians, especially in light of John chapter 6? Do Protestants have life in themselves? Eternal life? Are they partaking of the flesh and blood of Jesus?

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Peace be with you all,
Dan Johnson

Catholics and Protestants are brothers through baptism. Protestants don’t understand that they need the Eucharist, and therefore do not sin by not receiving it. But it is our resposibility to lovingly and persuasively explain the truth of Catholicism to our brothers so that they may be brought into the fullness of the faith.

 

[Mickey]

Dan_471:

I’ve heard Catholics refer to Protestants as Christians and brothers.

Absolutely!

Dan_471:

In what sense are they Christians

They believe in Jesus Christ–that He suffered and died for our sins–rose from the dead–and ascended into heaven.

Dan_471:

Do Protestants have life in themselves?

Only God knows

Dan_471:

Eternal life?

Only God knows.

Dan_471:

Are they partaking of the flesh and blood of Jesus?

Not without Holy Orders, but this is a thread unto itself.

 

[1ke]

Dan_471:

I’ve heard Catholics refer to Protestants as Christians and brothers.

Protestants who have a Trinitarian faith are our separated brothers and sisters. They have separated themselves, or been born into separation, but they are still Christian by virtue of their Trinitarian baptism.

Dan_471:

In what sense are they Christians, especially in light of John chapter 6?

In the “sense” that all baptized persons are members of the Body of Christ. Baptism is the entry point into the Christian faith.

Dan_471:

Do Protestants have life in themselves? Eternal life? Are they partaking of the flesh and blood of Jesus?

All persons have a chance at salvation. We cannot know the state of their souls, only God can know that.

Please remember that Protestants born into their faith did not “walk away” from the Faith, as the followers of Jesus did in John 6. Those born into error are ignorant of the Truth. We pray for God’s mercy in this situation, and that they will come to the fullness of Truth.

 

[Dan_471]

Thank you all for your answers.

So, if I’m understanding right so far, Protestants can be Christians through Baptism, but they may be Christians without eternal life. Comments?

I think I want to talk about Protestants/Christians using some additional terms.

Can Protestants be baptized in the Holy Spirit (from John chapter 1)?

Are they believers in Jesus? If so, doesn’t John talk of Jesus equating belief in Him with eternal life?

(I’m using John above as a starting point. I plan to refer to other Scriptures as well.)

Looking forward to hearing back.

Peace,
Dan Johnson

 

[1ke]

Dan_471:

So, if I’m understanding right so far, Protestants can be Christians through Baptism,

No, not “can be Christians”… **are ** Christians through Baptism. Baptism places a real seal on our souls, remits original sin, and confers actual grace.

Dan_471:

but they may be Christians without eternal life. Comments?

I don’t know what you mean by this.

Dan_471:

Can Protestants be baptized in the Holy Spirit (from John chapter 1)?

All persons receive the Holy Spirit at Baptism.

Dan_471:

Are they believers in Jesus?

Yes.

Dan_471:

If so, doesn’t John talk of Jesus equating belief in Him with eternal life?

Belief is part of what leads to eternal life, belief alone does not. That is the doctrine of Sola Fide, a Protestant error. You cannot take one selective verse out of the bible and try to force it to mean something it does not.

Don’t forget, Satan and the demons “believe in” God.

 

[Dan_471]

I wrote “(Protestants)may be Christians without eternal life.”

1ke wrote “I don’t know what you mean by this.”

I’ll try to explain.

Protestants are Christians, but, like Catholics, may or may not have eternal life, since the state of one’s soul is known only to God. Am I understanding things right?

“All persons receive the Holy Spirit at Baptism.” “Receiving” is the same as “baptized in”, in this case?

1ke above indicates that Protestants are part of the body of Christ. Is there general agreement on this? Does St. Paul equate the body with the church? Is this still true?

Peace to you all,
Dan Johnson

 

[chrisb]

Dan_471:

I wrote “(Protestants)may be Christians without eternal life.”

1ke wrote “I don’t know what you mean by this.”

I’ll try to explain.

Protestants are Christians, but, like Catholics, may or may not have eternal life, since the state of one’s soul is known only to God. Am I understanding things right?

“All persons receive the Holy Spirit at Baptism.” “Receiving” is the same as “baptized in”, in this case?

1ke above indicates that Protestants are part of the body of Christ. Is there general agreement on this? Does St. Paul equate the body with the church? Is this still true?

Peace to you all,
Dan Johnson

Grace and Peace be with you Dan!

I’ve followed this thread but I must say that I’m not sure if I’m understanding you all that well so please correct me is my assumptions are in error.

As I understand it you are questioning if protestants are Christians and if they are do they actually have eternal life. For me that two are inseparable. To truly ‘be’ a Christian means to have eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ who gives life eternal.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: - John 1:12

Of course this is our hope. We rest in hope for we are yet unsanctified but we do have a certain sense assurance in our hope which we claim through faith.

So if you were to take some time and perhaps read St. Pauls’ Epistle to the Galatians you might find some good reason to share fellowship and hope with our separated brethern.

I know I do.

Peace and God Bless.

 

[1ke]

Dan_471:

Protestants are Christians, but, like Catholics, may or may not have eternal life, since the state of one’s soul is known only to God. Am I understanding things right?

I don’t understand what you mean by “have” eternal life. All Christians have the possibility of eternal life.

Dan_471:

“All persons receive the Holy Spirit at Baptism.” “Receiving” is the same as “baptized in”, in this case?

We are baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit indwells in the Christian soul upon baptism. I don’t understand what you mean by “baptized in” the Spirit if you are referring to something other than the Sacrament of Baptism.

From the Catechism:
1265 Baptism not only purifies from all sins, but also makes the neophyte “a new creature,” an adopted son of God, who has become a “partaker of the divine nature,”[68] member of Christ and co-heir with him,[69] and a temple of the Holy Spirit.[70]

1267 Baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ: “Therefore . . . we are members one of another.”[71] Baptism incorporates us into the Church. From the baptismal fonts is born the one People of God of the New Covenant, which transcends all the natural or human limits of nations, cultures, races, and sexes: “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.”[72]

Dan_471:

1ke above indicates that Protestants are part of the body of Christ. Is there general agreement on this?

From the Catechism:

1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: “For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.” “Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn.”

You can read the entire section on Baptism here:

CCC on Baptism

And on the relationship between Catholics and non-Catholics here:

People of God

The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church

Dan, Are you a Catholic?

 

[Dan_471]

Hi chrisb

Thanks for writing to me. I’m not so much questioning whether Protestants are Christians as what Catholics mean when they refer to Protestants as Christians or Brothers. (I normally worship God with Christians who take a very Protestant view of things.)

So, as many as receive Jesus Christ are Christians and sons of God, and brothers, too. I’ll say a big ‘Amen’ to that!

Hi 1ke

Thanks for posting the sections from the Catechism. They were most helpful.

No, I am not a Catholic.

“All Christians have the possibility of eternal life.” Yes, and I feel that we actually do understand each other here.

Now, I’ll try to explain what I mean by “have eternal life” and “baptize in”. The phrase “have eternal life” is found at the end of John 3:16, and some other places in that Gospel, I think. I take it to mean that people who believe in Jesus Christ are no longer under the power of death, that although the physical body will die, the soul or spirit will continue to live forever. How do you (or the Catechism or Church Fathers or Catholic writer that you respect) understand that phrase?

Similarily with “baptize in”. John the Baptist says that Jesus will “baptize in the Holy Spirit”. Is this what happens when one is baptized in water? I think so, but I’m not really sure. What do you (or others) think it means?

Well, I’m certainly seeing much to rejoice in. Protestants and Catholics are members of the one church, one body, they share in the same baptism, have the hope of eternal life, and worship the one Lord, Jesus Christ. “Rejoice in the Lord always, and again I say, rejoice!”

Peace to you all,
Dan Johnson

 

[Philthy]

Dan_471:

Hello

Grace to you.

There’s an issue I want to ask about because I really want to understand how Catholics relate to non-Catholics, especially Protestants.

I’ve heard Catholics refer to Protestants as Christians and brothers. In what sense are they Christians, especially in light of John chapter 6? Do Protestants have life in themselves? Eternal life? Are they partaking of the flesh and blood of Jesus?

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Peace be with you all,
Dan Johnson

Check out this active thread on the topic:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=103432

Phil

 

[1ke]

Dan_471:

Thanks for posting the sections from the Catechism. They were most helpful.

You are welcome

Dan_471:

No, I am not a Catholic.

That explains the terminology problems. I first thought you might be Catholic due to your referencing of John 6-- a most “Catholic” book of the bible.

Dan_471:

“All Christians have the possibility of eternal life.” Yes, and I feel that we actually do understand each other here.

Good.

Dan_471:

Now, I’ll try to explain what I mean by “have eternal life” and “baptize in”. The phrase “have eternal life” is found at the end of John 3:16, and some other places in that Gospel, I think.

Yes, Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life. He came that we may have eternal life. But, belief in him does not guarantee eternal life if we fail to keep the commandments. Remember the rich man who asked what he must do to have eternal life. Jesus told him to sell all his possessions, take up his cross, and follow Him.

Dan_471:

I take it to mean that people who believe in Jesus Christ are no longer under the power of death,

Those who believe, and are baptized, have been given grace in their souls and have been freed from Original Sin. Yes, that means they are no longer under the “power of death”.

Dan_471:

that although the physical body will die, the soul or spirit will continue to live forever.

This is true of all persons, whether they are believers or not-- whether they go to Heaven or not. All souls are immortal, and will either be in union with God (Heaven, or Heaven via purgation) or separation from God (Hell) upon death.

Dan_471:

How do you (or the Catechism or Church Fathers or Catholic writer that you respect) understand that phrase?

A Catholic would explain it this way:

I have been saved. (By the Blood of Christ on the Cross)
I am being saved. (By the Grace of God)
I hope to be saved. (By perservering in faith and Grace to the end of one’s life)

Dan_471:

Similarily with “baptize in”. John the Baptist says that Jesus will “baptize in the Holy Spirit”. Is this what happens when one is baptized in water? I think so, but I’m not really sure. What do you (or others) think it means?

Yes. John’s baptism was symbolic only-- those baptized by him were showing outward sorrow for their sins and the water symbolized being cleansed. But, they were still required to follow the Jewish Law, including Yom Kippur-- the atonement day when a sin offering was sacrificed in the Temple to remit the sins of the people. Baptism did nothing of a personal, spiritual nature regarding remission of sins.

However, Christian baptism, instituted by Christ as a Sacrament, gives actual grace. It is not a symbol-- it actually cleanses our soul of sin (both original and actual) and infuses our soul with supernatural grace. The Holy Spirit makes a real dwelling place in our souls.

Be aware that Protestants, by and large, do not hold this view of baptism. They view it as symbolic only-- not as a Sacrament conferring real grace and an indwelling of the Spirit.

Dan_471:

Well, I’m certainly seeing much to rejoice in. Protestants and Catholics are members of the one church, one body, they share in the same baptism, have the hope of eternal life, and worship the one Lord, Jesus Christ. “Rejoice in the Lord always, and again I say, rejoice!”

You seem to be more Catholic than Protestant in your thinking, actually. You seem to recognize Jesus’s call to eternal life-- and one important way he states we are to have eternal life is to “eat his flesh and drink his blood”. John 6.

52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.”

This is a command fulfilled in the Catholic Eucharist.

 

[Tom]

Dan_471:

Well, I’m certainly seeing much to rejoice in. Protestants and Catholics are members of the one church, one body; they share in the same baptism, have the hope of eternal life, and worship the one Lord, Jesus Christ. “Rejoice in the Lord always, and again I say, rejoice!”
Peace to you all,
Dan Johnson

Amen Dan, The confusion comes from the meaning of the Catholic Church. When one says the “Catholic Church” one may be referring to the building down the street, where the true presence of Jesus can be found. One may be referring to the assembly of believers who frequent any of the “Catholic Churches”. One may be referring to the authoritative structure, Pope, Bishops, Priest, etc. The broadest view is all Christianity, all Christians, wether they like it or not are members of the Catholic Church. This last comment should bring objections from both sides! But it’s true, another poor analogy, it’s like a large family (in fact that’s exactly what it is). We have brothers (and sisters and cousins etc.) who we are close with, other brothers we tolerate, some brothers we are a little embarrassed with some we’d rather not even mention, but in the end we are still family, we are all brothers in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church teaches the “full” truth, those “separated” churches don’t. Another VERY poor analogy would be if God gave 1,000 teachings, the Catholic Church would teach those 1,000 and only those 1,000 another “separated” church may only agree with 900 of them; another “separated” church only 750, another 500 but adds 250 of their own. By that I don’t mean the necessarily teach falsely (although some do), I mean they may leave out some part. The closer a church is to the teaching of the Catholic Church the closer it is to the full truth. The problem is Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would guide His (catholic or universal) Church (the Apostles and their successors) to all truth, not just any follower, not any church who breaks away from this leadership but specifically the leadership of His Catholic Church. When the Protestants broke away they lost that assurance. Sadly, without this guaranteed assurance of being led to the truth, many have fallen into error. Do they still have the Holy Spirit? Absolutely, but they are NOT guaranteed by Jesus to have that particular charism of being led to the truth. We pray they will return, because frankly they are cheating themselves of so very much. Can they succeed in finding their salvation outside of the (Roman) Catholic Church, yes it is possible (although much more difficult); outside of the Catholic (universal) Church, no it isn’t.

 

[Tom]

I would like to point out some things, in reality everyone who enters, or has ever entered, heaven is a member of the Catholic Church, even those who lived (and died) prior to the incarnation. Sound impossible? Remember Jesus as the Son of God was not created when He was born, He has always been, He is God, timeless. So He existed always, when:
drbo.org:

Gn 5, 23 And all the days of Henoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24 And he walked with God, and was seen no more: because God took him.

Jesus (as the Son of God) already existed.
drbo.org:

4 Kings 2, 11 And as they went on, walking and talking together, behold a fiery chariot, and fiery horses parted them both asunder: and Elias went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Again, He already existed.

 

[metal4jesus]

hi. i am a protestant and i have been all my life. but sometimes i really dont like to be called a protestant. i would rather just like to be called a christian. but anyhoo…yea i was raised protestant, and i have had communion while i was growin up, by the way, i have taken the Eucharist also in my new church, which is a Charismatic Episcopal Church. but could someone please tell me if there are any differences between “The Lord’s Supper” that i took, and the Eucharist. sooo could i have some (name removed by moderator)ut on if there are any differences between the two?

 

[gardenswithkids]

1ke:

…I first thought you might be Catholic due to your referencing of John 6-- a most “Catholic” book of the bible.

Me too.
I read the first several posts of this thread thinking the original poster was Catholic with anti-protestant views and prejudices who was upset that Catholics on this board refered to Protestants as Christians and brothers.

1ke:

…You seem to be more Catholic than Protestant in your thinking, actually. You seem to recognize Jesus’s call to eternal life-- and one important way he states we are to have eternal life is to “eat his flesh and drink his blood”. John 6.

52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.”

This is a command fulfilled in the Catholic Eucharist.

 

[gardenswithkids]

metal4jesus:

hi. i am a protestant and i have been all my life. but sometimes i really dont like to be called a protestant. i would rather just like to be called a christian. but anyhoo…yea i was raised protestant, and i have had communion while i was growin up, by the way, i have taken the Eucharist also in my new church, which is a Charismatic Episcopal Church. but could someone please tell me if there are any differences between “The Lord’s Supper” that i took, and the Eucharist. sooo could i have some (name removed by moderator)ut on if there are any differences between the two?

Hi and welcome to Catholic Answer forums. That’s a different thread topic I’d suggest start a new thread if you wish to discuss that. But quick answer: neither you or I have any “(name removed by moderator)ut” into this. Jesus is the One who determines if the Eucharist is authentically Him. Catholics believe John 6 quite literally that our Eucharist is Jesus’ Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. We Catholics also believe that He instituted the Sacrament of Holy Orders and that only a validly ordained priest can consecrate the Eucharist. We believe that Roman Catholic and Eastern Rite Catholics have a valid priesthood, but we don’t believe that Protestants do. That is our faith. It’s not that we hold anything against Protestants when we say this. We would also like for there just to be Christians, not multiple denominations.

 

[metal4jesus]

gardenswithkids:

Hi and welcome to Catholic Answer forums. That’s a different thread topic I’d suggest start a new thread if you wish to discuss that. But quick answer: neither you or I have any “(name removed by moderator)ut” into this. Jesus is the One who determines if the Eucharist is authentically Him. Catholics believe John 6 quite literally that our Eucharist is Jesus’ Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. We Catholics also believe that He instituted the Sacrament of Holy Orders and that only a validly ordained priest can consecrate the Eucharist. We believe that Roman Catholic and Eastern Rite Catholics have a valid priesthood, but we don’t believe that Protestants do. That is our faith. It’s not that we hold anything against Protestants when we say this. We would also like for there just to be Christians, not multiple denominations.

hi. thanx for the reply on that. but the holy order sacrament part is what makes me wonder. i mean, i really dont understand the whole sacrament thing. mabye i should read more of the stuff in that forum lol. but thanx! God bless