Protestants: Could you please do us all a favor??

[guanophore]

I understand pride when I see it. And, yet I have not had to take membership classes for Satanism.

I agree. Personally, having had such horrible experiences with Catechism over the years, including RCIA, I would not recommend it to anyone!

However, since you are one of those who consistently misrepresents Catholic Teaching, what would you suggest as an alternative? The OP is asking that those who wish to have dialogue(I think) become educated about the concepts. What do you think might work?

 

[guanophore]

Another one is "mirror worshiping"  which many evangelical converts love to accuse the Protestants of doing.  :shrug:

I have not heard that one. What does that mean?

 

[sambos671]

sambos671,
Love has to come from within, No one can “make” another love. All the instructions in the world won’t make you love God, you have to do that by opening your heart to Him. RCIA is an adult instruction class, not for kids, although they do now have one for young folks. There have always been instruction classes for adults and young. folks of every age even before RCIA . I still think you worry to much about others when you should be developing your own spiritual life.

I don’t. What I am saying is that growing up the poor example of catholics I knew did not lead me to Jesus. The good example of Protestants did. Having understood the scriptures and the history and the Saints have helped be to understand that the church is right about many things. I may even return. I am strongly considering it. If I were to return to the church now I would still be blessed by it and grow spiritually eventhough everyone else in the parish were sinning greately (of course this wouldn’t happen). I would pray for them and witness to them but they wouldn’t throw me off from the faith. What I am saying is that an enviornment of this before my faith was even fully formed the catholics I knew taught me to settle for less. This is why it is important to take on the examples of the saints and others who are faithful. You think I am taking a position against the church. I am not. I am explaining how I and others I know left the church and it very much relied on others. Remember the Catachism: Faith is not for ourselves alone but belongs to the community. It must be lived. I’m indicating a problem I experienced. Have you heard me in this thread condemn any teaching by the church? NO! I uphold its teaching. I’m suggesting that I and others have left by poor examples (before I had faith) and it is not just common to me. So it is a problem. Our faith does not exist in a vacuum and we are responsible for our brothers. Yes I like the saints and look to their examples and read about them to my children and conduct memorials to them in the liturgy of the hours.

 

[Peter_J]

No offense indeed. I admit that I’ve been wrong about a lot of things that I thought the Catholic faith taught. This misunderstanding came from two sources

1. The witness to the faith by my family and others. They did not promulgate the faith as they should have. They’ve substituted their desires over the faith but thought it was enough for ritual. This is wrong:

It is clear that ritual and prayers in of themselves are nothing with out assimilating it into our lives. This is where many (not all, not most) catholics like my family go wrong. It is a requirement that Catholics pass on their faith in their lives and their speach;

Therefore the Catholic Faith must be assimilated and lived and spoken of to others.

Well said, sambos.

This is one reason I think it is crucial to compare “apples to apples”. Too many writers – whether Protestant, Orthodox, or even Catholic – hold up stellar examples from among their own coreligionists, and compare them to mediocre (or worse) examples from their opponents.

 

[Peter_J]

It’s amazing that Catholics so often claim that protestants who argue against points held by the RCC are uninformed.

Come now. You don’t think Catholics do that any more frequently than Protestants (or Orthodox) do?

 

[distracted]

However, he manipulated church law by insisting both his marriages we done civily. (Judging?) Yes because I saw and experienced his sin.

as the scriptures said today… the weeds are left to grow alongside the wheat… That is not a judgment… just accepting your own assessment… and assuming that… he really doesn’tt accept Christ in the fullest sense of what that means… a lot of people don’t.

How did being in Our Lords presence change his life?

Well, you can be in a human’s presence and not really be communicating with him/her… It is the same with Jesus… I used to feel His presence long before i … began to REALLY feel it… to appreciate it… because i had all this worldly gunk in my head and heart nd that was blocking the Real Presence… God cannot abide with sin… He wants ALL of us… We can’t just have God as some little “part” of our life… That isn’t good enough for Him, as you seem to know… He really is a “jealous God” (Oprah nothwithstanding )… I usedto be in the Lord’s presence at Mass… but when i began to get INTO that Presence… to sit there with Him for long periods of time (“Be still and know that i am God”…)… that is when it began to be “effective” (words are inadequate)…

As for me I received the sacraments but didn’t believe so they were voided for me in a sense.

i doubt it… Maybe the whole reason you now sound like you are so into Jesus is because of those long-ago received sacraments…

It wasn’t until I knew Jesus through his Holy Scriptures and in a developed prayer life that I could appreciate the sacraments and see the need for their grace.

Me too… I was raised Catholic… but it was only a sunday thing… Then i was filled w/ the Spirit… loved Jesus for 2 years or so… then weird stuff happened, i fell away… The weird thing was that it was a Catholic “thing” that got me back to Jesus… the rosary… However, even then i didn’t return to the Church 100%… but i was definitely into Jesus…

the aposltes knew Jesus in relationship long before they knew him in his Eucharist.

true… & parents should teach their children to have this kind of relationship… Mine didn’t & many others could sy the same hting…

Her father works for the Mafia and he made all sorts of statements about how he paid of priest and extorted money etc…

i heard something one time about how many priests go to Hell… (we need to pray for them as they are more attacked by the devil). … this is one reason Jesus said “call no man Father”… He meant, Don’t blindly follow someone (just because of his social position or whatever…)

she can’t differentiate between “real” Catholics and the ones who abused her.

I have been abused by priests and other Church members… was tempted to leave… but saw that all as coming from the devil… who wants EVERYONE To leave tthe Church… One time, while @ the Blessed S, i heard words in my head “Get out of my church”… I ignored that because we are to ignore the devil…& i felt it was him… In fact, it “had to be” him… He would like to think it is HIS church… & there is no doubt he is There!! He is everywhere… but oh well… His days are numbered… and he knows it…

 

[distracted]

But the majority of people on Earth don’t accept that. Why would such a loving god doom most people to eternal damnation?

God doesn’t condemn people who are doing the best they can… People who are not doing their best… condemn themselves…

 

[distracted]

I have a problem with aren’t really practicing the teachings of the faith. . There seems to be a defensiveness about how some have not walked according to their faith

i am not defensive… I will defend my Church to the end… but i will not defend some Catholics who do not practice the faith… and seem to make a mockery of it by “appearing” to be Catholic…

. Could it be it hits a little too close to home for some?

i sometimes think that is so…

I have been treated veyr poorly here on the forums by some so-called Catholics… and i have been treated poorly even inside the Church… before or after mass even…

It baffles me…

 

[Always_For_Him]

distracted,
I am interested to know how you have been treated poorly by the Catholic Church or Catholics inside or outdside of the Church, if you would share that with me. But, especially inside the Church. What abuses are you speaking of. I am not trying to say that abuse/negative treatment doesn’t happen in any Church, because we are human and it just does.

I find that with Catholic Churches and Protestant Churches alike, especially if they are affluent, there really are a lot of secular people who don’t “seem” to be guided by Jesus and spirituality. I know we all have to fight society’s ways today. It is very difficult. I was in Destin, FL 7 years ago on vacation and went to Church off the main strip there, (I can’t remember the name of the Church.) and the priest’s homily is still in my memory. He was discussing this very topic that I am writing about and how that we need to fight the secular and society ways of life and live by God’s will. That we need to be more considerate, thoughful, helpful, kind, understanding and forgiving of one another. We need to pray, read the Bible, attend Eucharistic Adoration (which is AWESOME), and go to mass between Sunday’s. Then he said, "We all come in Church, pray, offer the sign of the peace to eachother, take communion, then when we leave we are honking our horns and flipping eachother off because someone isn’t letting us out of our parking space fast enough. That is an over exageration of how it really is, but you know, it really is true in a way. It is sad that we are so caught up in the world, our own selfishness, living our designs for our own life, that we don’t consider God’s designs for our lives or God’s will as much as we should. We have gotten so caught up in our own selfishness and desires that it takes away the ability for us to help, love, forgive, understand, offer acceptance to others. Anyway, I don’t know if this is what you are referring to or not, but it is what I see not only in the Catholic Churches, but in Protestant Churches as well.

 

[distracted]

"We all come in Church, pray, offer the sign of the peace to eachother, take communion, then when we leave we are honking our horns and flipping eachother off because someone isn’t letting us out of our parking space fast enough.

That made me laugh… Mental image… plus the fact that it is SO true… (except kinda exaggerated…)…

. It is sad that we are so caught up in the world, our own selfishness, living our designs for our own life, that we don’t consider God’s designs for our lives or God’s will as much as we should. We have gotten so caught up in our own selfishness and desires that it takes away the ability for us to help, love, forgive, understand, offer acceptance to others. Anyway, I don’t know if this is what you are referring to or not, but it is what I see not only in the Catholic Churches, but in Protestant Churches as well.

that is exactly what i am talking about…

If i told you how i had been abused, you may not think it is that big a deal compared to, say, the victims of the sex scandal… but abuse is abuse… and if it is so bad a person considers leaving the Church… something is seriously wrong. i made a formal complaint with the diocese about this one incident… but i don’t know if it would be good to go into details here about it… someone may recognize the problem and thereby recognize ME… (though this person doesn’t know me well…).

Have i answered your question??

 

[distracted]

God doesn’t “doom” anyone!!. They doom themselves by the lives they live. Not following the truth. He didn’t doom Adam and Eve into disobeying HIM but they suffered the consequences, and so do we. He didn’t doom Judas into hanging himself. Sin is our choice, if GOD had HIS way no one would sin. While GOD is “All Loving and ALL merciful” he is also, “All Knowing and ALL JUST”.

:clapping: **Very well said… **

 

[guanophore]

When my husband and I went through RCIA in 2003-2004, the lead teacher was an ex-Protestant college professor who compiled a team of teachers who taught liturgy, the Bible, etc. There were discussions and homework and a GIANT binder filled with articles and worksheets. There was a media person who brought in videos, DVDs, CDs, and books that we were all free to borrow (and people borrowed them–they were awesome!)

This sounds really awesome. If they were all like that, it would be perfect.

 

[guanophore]

You bring up some excellent points as well I agree with all of this. I’ve never been able to understand the mind set that you have to enter the Church like a wet dog after a storm with your tail between your legs.

When I was attending RCIA I was offended at what I was reading in forums like this but then I later realized they were speaking to me as if I was an evangelical and needed to be beat down or come to this great truth My back ground is not evangelical. I came from the United Methodist Church and later PCUSA. Both are consider high church and are not in any way anti-Catholic. We did a great deal of ecumencial things with Catholics over the years, VBS, bible studies. Catholics were a big part of my world. We all lived together in the same community.

I was completely taken a back when I would read some of the stuff these apologists and certain Catholics would write. I was like huh? I would have converts say to me “you have to come to the truth, you have to realize that what you were taught was wrong” HUH?? They didn’t realize I was never taught anything wrong about Catholicism

I wish your experience was more common. I am amazed by the hordes of misinformed people.

 

[LutheranDK]

Could you please attend an RCIA class (finish it) before attempting to argue Catholic versus Protestant theology…

Yes, i suppose Catholics should study various Protestant theologies also… but i feel most Catholics on the forums have (more or less) done that…

I’m sorry, but it really rankles me when Protestants think they know Catholic theology and they so positively DO NOT!!

another source of information about the true Catholic faith can be found here at Catholic Answers…

I just don’t think it is right to attack something you do not understand…

1: I have absolutely no idea what an “RCIA”-class is.

2: If you think that the RCs on this forum have studied “various protestant theologies” - then you are sorely mistaken. The utter lack of actual knowledge displayed in the baiting-posts (which are about 90+ percent of the posts on this forum) clearly shows this.

 

[Memaw]

Here we go tear apart Catholics for lack of knowledge well I may not have memorized the catacism but at least I have 1 for a referance if I should get confused. I am so glad I don’t have to rely on my own personel opinion.
I will follow the Catholic church to the best of my ability because it truely is the church Jesus started.
It never used to be so complicated but constant attacks have led to elaborate explainations to satisfy the unbelievers.

"Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me.And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me"

Peace be with you

Well said Jim, but I don’t think the Catholic Church is so complicated, but trying to explain the truth to someone who clings to the lies about the Catholic Church is very difficult. And why they expect perfection from Catholics and not for themselves, I do not understand. They are quick to admit “All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God” but theres NO forgiveness for Catholics in their eyes.

 

[Peter_J]

Well said Jim, but I don’t think the Catholic Church is so complicated, but trying to explain the truth to someone who clings to the lies about the Catholic Church is very difficult. And why they expect perfection from Catholics and not for themselves, I do not understand. They are quick to admit “All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God” but theres NO forgiveness for Catholics in their eyes.

I know. They’re all out to get us.

 

[Peter_J]

I agree that, all things being equal, “Catholics should study various Protestant theologies also”. But there are different ways of doing so. If a Catholic didn’t know much about Protestantism and decided to learn more by attending a Protestant <fill in whatever is the Protestant equivalent of RCIA> class, I would consider that a very bad idea (generally speaking).

^^ I had posted this as a response to Distracted; but in retrospect, I should have directed to anyone who cares to respond. Any takers?

 

[sambos671]

I know. They’re all out to get us.

Yeah just because your paranoid doesn’t mean their not out to get you.

 

[Always_For_Him]

^^ I had posted this as a response to Distracted; but in retrospect, I should have directed to anyone who cares to respond. Any takers?

I will bite. My take on this is that Protestant beliefs and interpretation of Scripture is just that, their own beliefs and self interpretation of Scripture. The Catholic Church is the Church that was given the Oral Tradition to go forth and teach all nations. So, the Catholic Church is based on Jesus’ Deposit of Faith and already knows the exact Truth. I personally want to study and learn my own faith. It will take a lifetime to do that, and even then I won’t be able to learn it all. So, I don’t think it is necessary to study Protestant theologies simply because they are amended/different beliefs and self interpretation from our very own teachings.

 

[Memaw]

Yeah just because your paranoid doesn’t mean their not out to get you.

The truth doesn’t make you paranoid. In my many years, I have heard soooo much of protestant lies about the Catholic Church but very little of Catholics badmouthing protestants. While we don’t agree with their interpretations of scripture, we don’t spread lies about them on the grand scale they do about us. Many of these lies are centuries old. And angry ex-Catholics fuel their fire with their venom. I try to remind them all that the 8th Commandment is still in effect. Thou shalt not bear false witness against they neighbor. In other words, DON"T lie.