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brina1416
Guest
Thanks for the website.
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brina1416
Guest
I know the Church is very clear on this topic.
It’s more of a struggle of accepting this particular teaching. The issue with the pill I understand but not so much the forbidden use of condoms to prevent diseases and unplanned pregnancies. I don’t plan on falling into the category your relatives are placed in; leaving the Church for my “fertile years” isn’t going to be an option. This is an issue I will continue to wrestle with nonetheless even though I’m well aware of the teaching.
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larkin31
Guest
Does this mean that no one sees children as a blessing anymore? Children are ruined for everyone, even those who use birthcontrol? All you church brethren, all your neighbors, all your children’s friends, all your relatives? Everyone who has ever used birth control over the history of the planet no longer saw children “as a blessing”?
So, couples are not divorcing ONLY because they are practicing NFP? In other words, couples’ therapists might suggest unprotected sex (NFP) for married couples who use ABC and who are thinking of leaving each other?
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Michael2799
Guest
The condom is not the seed that led to the bad tree. It is the heart of man that leads to these things. “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” (Jeremiah 17:9) Western civilization does not have a condom problem. It has a sin problem. Blaming the condom for sexual immorality is akin to blaming the handguns and baseball bats for deadly assaults.
From a biblical perspective, non-abortive contraception is not inherently sinful so long as it is not employed for selfish reasons. Sexual intercourse is primarily for bonding man and wife together as the two become one flesh. It is for procreation as well as for sharing love and experiencing deep physical pleasure within marriage.
One selfish and sinful use of condoms for example might include the couple who contracepts strictly because they are too selfish to give up their upscale toys and high end lifestyle. In that case, I believe the use of contraception is sinful.
:juggle:
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onenow1
Guest
If I may butt in, the following I think answers most questions on contraception: It certainly seems God’s plans In the following : Jeremiah 1: 5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
To be sure most people see children as a blessing.
The Question should be, do those that use contraception have faith in God’s promises or are we the ultimate arbitors of life ?
Peace
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mark_a
Guest
NFP is permitted only for the right reasons. The way it’s pushed on these forums, you’d think family planning with nfp was a duty.
NFP can also be used to become pregnant.
The failure rate of nfp marriages is less than 10%. Of contracepting marriages, 50%.
You are correct in asking these questions. The answers can be difficult to accept for anyone raised in our contraceptive culture. But the Church can’t simply change her teaching just because Protestantism did.
Any time spent on this forum will show there is a backlash from Catholics against Protestantization (if that’s a real word) of our Church.
I may have already suggested this to you, but my signature links to this very subject and how Protestantism ran right off the tracks of traditional Christian and Jewish teaching.
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mark_a
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Michael2799
Guest
Non abortive use of contraception is always immoral? I would like to ask for for Chapter and verse just as easily. However, with all due respect, sola scriptura is not the topic at hand.
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Reservoir_Dog
Guest
I don’t accept the CC’s authority. That’s how.
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mark_a
Guest
I don’t have chapter and verse. I have traditional Church teaching rooted in Jewish teaching. Which, at times, isn’t as convenient as SS.
Best wishes.
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mark_a
Guest
do you accept any authority?
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Reservoir_Dog
Guest
What is the relevance of that? I said I don’t accept the CC’s authority. The OP linked contraception with the Church’s teachings. I answered his question.
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larkin31
Guest
A reasonable response and a fair question. Presently, as an agnostic, I don’t have any sustainable faith in God nor in God’s promises, and I don’t acknowledge any supernatural arbiter of life. But I don’t entirely reject the possibility, either.If I may butt in, the following I think answers most questions on contraception: It certainly seems God’s plans In the following : Jeremiah 1: 5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
To be sure most people see children as a blessing.
The Question should be, do those that use contraception have faith in God’s promises or are we the ultimate arbitors of life ?
Peace
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larkin31
Guest
I am kinda tired of hearing this sweeping condemnation of couples who avoid children for “selfish” reasons of comfort and standard of living. I know of very few people, married or not, religious or not, retired or not, who do not make many many decisions around acquiring comforts, saving for the future, saving for college, worrying about retirement, worry about the last geriatric years. Only monks and nuns, it seems to me, have any right to point fingers at the rest of us common middle-class folk about property ownership and comfort and “toys,” and they aren’t supposed to have sex so don’t really have to face the issue of raising children. Basically, any married Catholic who is not getting pregnant every two years (end of breastfeeding) for, say, 20 years of married life, is making a decision, for family and personal reasons, not to have children as often as they could. Which seems to me both wise and blameless. Do you really look around you and call those persons of affluence with fewer than, say, 6 children “selfish”? As in, more “selfish” than the jocko typing away on the internet calling other people “selfish”?
What is it with all the self-righteousness around here? Aren’t we all just trying to navigate our way through this mess of life without disaster? Without wrecking the train? Without getting kicked off before the end cuz we can’t afford the entire fare?
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larkin31
Guest
Conscience is king, no?
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graceandglory
Guest
It isn’t. It’s actually very sad.
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Curious_Hobbit
Guest
Here’s an analogy that someone gave me to better understand the difference between NFP and ABC.
The natural purpose of eating is nutrition and sustenance. There is a pleasure that comes along with eating. If you want to eat ice cream, cake, or any other tasty foods that aren’t very good for you then you have to eat responsibly and practice self control. Eat healthy foods during the week and exercise and reward yourself every few days with a good desert or junk food. We have the technology to analyze the nutritional make up of food (carbs, proteins, starch,etc) so that you can decide what you should and should not eat and how much of what etc.
NFP is like this responsible way of dieting while birth control is like bulimia. NFP respects the purpose of the act, you’re playing by God’s rules. God gave a woman infertile times and we now have the technology to track those times just as we have the technology to to see what nutrients are in foods so that we can eat right, but have a treat when we’ve eaten healthy. The church doesn’t say that it’s wrong to have sex for pleasure, but you can’t alter the for your own pleasure.
Birth control is similar to bulimia in that the person pursues the pleasure of the act without accepting the natural result of their decision to perform the act. NFP requires you to be virtuous, it requires you to be temperate and practice self control. To me this just makes sense because it agrees with “everything in moderation”
I’m not trying to judge anyone who uses birth control, I just wanted to try and illustrate the difference between the 2. For a LONG time I didn’t see the difference at all and was really confused about what to think. I hope this helps.
The natural purpose of eating is nutrition and sustenance. There is a pleasure that comes along with eating. If you want to eat ice cream, cake, or any other tasty foods that aren’t very good for you then you have to eat responsibly and practice self control. Eat healthy foods during the week and exercise and reward yourself every few days with a good desert or junk food. We have the technology to analyze the nutritional make up of food (carbs, proteins, starch,etc) so that you can decide what you should and should not eat and how much of what etc.
NFP is like this responsible way of dieting while birth control is like bulimia. NFP respects the purpose of the act, you’re playing by God’s rules. God gave a woman infertile times and we now have the technology to track those times just as we have the technology to to see what nutrients are in foods so that we can eat right, but have a treat when we’ve eaten healthy. The church doesn’t say that it’s wrong to have sex for pleasure, but you can’t alter the for your own pleasure.
Birth control is similar to bulimia in that the person pursues the pleasure of the act without accepting the natural result of their decision to perform the act. NFP requires you to be virtuous, it requires you to be temperate and practice self control. To me this just makes sense because it agrees with “everything in moderation”
I’m not trying to judge anyone who uses birth control, I just wanted to try and illustrate the difference between the 2. For a LONG time I didn’t see the difference at all and was really confused about what to think. I hope this helps.
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larkin31
Guest
This is a terrible analogy. I am going to assume that you have never suffered from bulimia. It is not a pleasure-seeking behavior, it is a type of disease. Bulimics are widely miserable.
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kbwall
Guest
Actually, I thought it made a great deal of sense. Bulimia is how you eat a bunch of food to enjoy and then throw it up to avoid getting fat. Just like how condoms are treated as having all the sex you want, with none of the side effects.
Granted, Bulimia is a horrible eating disorder that is addicting and causes health problems. Still, the meaning of the analogy is there.
Granted, Bulimia is a horrible eating disorder that is addicting and causes health problems. Still, the meaning of the analogy is there.
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Curious_Hobbit
Guest
Yes Bulimics themselves aren’t happy with their situation. The point is that they’re eating food for the taste, and vomiting it up. Not necessarily only bulimics or the psychological mindset of bulimics. Some upper class Romans would eat big meals and then immediately go vomit their food up so they could continue eating. Me and my brothers are slightly tempted to do this every time we walk into a chinese buffet.
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