Protestants: defend your use of artificial contraception

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rev_kevin said:
Where is it in the Bible other than Onan and be fruitful and multiply because these do not have to do with contraception.
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Where is it in the bible that abortion is murder? That life begins at implantaion instead of conception?

It seems to me that you a double standard.
 
mark_a said:
Where is it in the bible that abortion is murder? That life begins at implantaion instead of conception?

It seems to me that you a double standard.
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God says he knows who you are even when you are in the womb. Therefore you are important in his eyes. That should be enough to say abortion is wrong. We all know that the fetus is alive. Not alive like you and me how we are out of the womb, but the baby inside the woman is alive.
 
Vanny said:
No defense here- I think the Catholic church has been proven right on this issue!
Hubby and I started to get into pro-life after we married and about 10 years ago I bought a book through a pro-life resource call “The Bible and Birth Control” by Charles D. Provan.
Provan is a Protestant- I think a conservative Presbyterian but I’m not sure about that.
Anyway the book is a goldmine quoting of Protestant leaders through time who spoke out AGAINST artificial birth control, including the Reformers, Puritans,Pilgims ect. Changed my thinking! I have since read other Protestant resources against b/c as well.
Luther, Calvin ,Wesley, ect. even some 20th century(mostly pre-1960)
I think the birth control pill especially has lead to the downfall of our society, the sexual revolution-Humana Vitae is right.
And beyond the pill and separating sex from procreation opens the door to genetic engineering and manipulation.
Hubby and I practice NFP…
Some of the Protestant resources are even against NFP but I think it’s a great way to space/limit your family if absolutley necessary and I’ve also gotten to know how my body works so much better than I did when I took hormonal contraceptives.
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Great post! Thanks for jumping in and sharing your valuable experience.
 
BlueShadow123 said:
God says he knows who you are even when you are in the womb. Therefore you are important in his eyes. That should be enough to say abortion is wrong. We all know that the fetus is alive. Not alive like you and me how we are out of the womb, but the baby inside the woman is alive.
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Of course we agree on this issue, however the Church teaching about contraception is even more directly evident in the bible than the Chruch teaching on abortion.
 
Jeremiah 1:4-5 The word of the LORD came to me thus: Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you, a prophet to the nations I appointed you.
 
Do you think the reason is that for the most part that killing and murder is inherently understood to be wrong? It’s part of the Ten Commandments and is easily pointed to when citing that killing is wrong. But when it comes to abortion and contraception, it is a lot more ambiguous in peoples minds as to what the realities are surrounding its practice. To those who get the message “Thy Shall not kill” they understand the message and how it applies to this subject.

There are far too many individuals that because of upbringing, secular indoctrination, especially in the media, schools, and universities, along with a luke warm interest in the “Truth” who fail to see that the foundation for this subject is “Thy Shall not kill”. It is because of these individuals that the Catholic Church and the Magistrium has to constantly hammer the message home that it is “Killing”.

There are many who will and do rationalize it away, both Catholics and Protestants, and I really don’t like making this a Catholic against Protestant issue. It is far greater than any one denomination. The great deceiver is just setting back and laughing his tail off at the rancor and division he has started. What we need to do is pray for those who see no wrong in their actions that they will be open to the Holy Spirit and be moved someday to be open to the truth.
 
wmscott said:
Do you think the reason is that for the most part that killing and murder is inherently understood to be wrong? It’s part of the Ten Commandments and is easily pointed to when citing that killing is wrong. But when it comes to abortion and contraception, it is a lot more ambiguous in peoples minds as to what the realities are surrounding its practice. To those who get the message “Thy Shall not kill” they understand the message and how it applies to this subject.

There are far too many individuals that because of upbringing, secular indoctrination, especially in the media, schools, and universities, along with a luke warm interest in the “Truth” who fail to see that the foundation for this subject is “Thy Shall not kill”. It is because of these individuals that the Catholic Church and the Magistrium has to constantly hammer the message home that it is “Killing”.

There are many who will and do rationalize it away, both Catholics and Protestants, and I really don’t like making this a Catholic against Protestant issue. It is far greater than any one denomination. The great deceiver is just setting back and laughing his tail off at the rancor and division he has started. What we need to do is pray for those who see no wrong in their actions that they will be open to the Holy Spirit and be moved someday to be open to the truth.
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when you use a condom what are you killing? The most you are doing is not giving life. But you are not giving life by having sex purposely when a woman is non-fertile.

Same thing. And you might say its a barrier, but what if it was a female condom? or sponge?

There are different types of birth control that do not give off hormones and that to do not separate the flesh
 
benedictus2 said:
But they did come to bite you.

You gave three different Bibles to support your interpretation and all of them went against you and actually supported mine. 😃

There was one that did support you but that was a mistranslation because the original Hebrew text does not say it at all. Actually mistranslation is not the right word. That was an exegesis that they have written into the Bible which the original did not say at all.
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Ok I’m probably going to re-hash again but here it goes.

The complete Bible–“What he did was so displeasing to the Lord.”
What was displeasing to the Lord? The fact that he disobeyed the command to give his dead brother a child.

NIV–“What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight.”
What was wicked? He did not give his brother a offspring to be his heir.

NLT–“But the Lord considered it evil for Onan to deny a child to his dead brother.”
What was evil? That Onan denied a child to his dead brother.

KJV–“And the thing which he did displeased the Lord.”
What was this thing that displesaed the Lord? The thing that displeased the Lord was that he denied a child to his dead brother.

Life application study Bible–“But the Lord considered it a wicked thing for Onan to deny a child who would belong to his brother.”
What was wicked? That Onan denied a child to his dead brother.

Verse 8 “Then Judah sid to Onan, 'Marry your brother’s wido; do the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and rear a family for your brother.”

Here is the command to Onan to give his brother a child and in verses 9-10 is his refusal to obey this command. That is what these 3 verses are about, disobeying the command to give his brother a child. Not about spilling his seed.

You have not debunked anything. Its just not what you want to hear therefore if its not what you want to hear then to you you have debunked it.
 
rev_kevin said:
Sure it says to marry and have children but that don’t mean sex is just to procreate. It just common sense that if one marries they will at least have one child. Thats the dream of most women, to have a child. But to say sex is just to procreate and not for pleasure alone just don’t make sense. Sometimes you just want to be intiment with your spouse without the fear of having a child when you don’t want one right now. Sex with your spouse is showing your love for eachother, and to show your love intimentally don’t mean you have to have children or that a child should come out of that love. Sometimes you just want to please eachother. Just because you don’t want to take the chance of having children everytime you and your spouse are intiment with eachother don’t mean its a form of turning aside after Satan.God made sex for the pleasure of a husband and spouse and to have children but that don’t mean you have to take the chance every time you have relations with your spouse.

BTW I’m a German polock in the republic of Texas also.
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Greetings from the hill country my fellow Texan!

So in response to your rebuttal:

In the context of 1 Corinthians 7, Paul is giving advice and commandments to the unmarried and the married. Two of the major threads of thought running through the chapter are: (1) avoid fornication (6:13-19; 7:12, 5b, 9, 37) and (2) accept the state in which God has called you (7:7, 17, 29, 24, 39b). First, in verses 6:13-7: 9, Paul is warning especially against fornication. In 6:13-19, he states that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Our body is not our own, but the Lord’s (6:13b, 19b). Twice he warns the Corinthians to flee fornication (6:13, 18). A man who commits fornication with a prostitute becomes “one flesh” with her (6:16). Instead of allowing the Lord to use his body for spiritual purposes, the man gives his body over to carnal purposes. Likewise, contraception is using the body for carnal purposes, while seeking to ignore the spiritual purposes.
 
benedictus2 said:
Is there a commandment by God somewhere to have sex just for sex’s sake?
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1 Corinthians 7
V.3) “The husband **should not deprive ** his wife of sexual intimacy which is her right as sa married woman, nor should the wife deprive her husband.”
Here we see that a married couple should not deprive eachother of sexual intimacy. Now being intimant with your spouse is pleasurable correct? And having sexual intimacy, sexual intercourse, with your spouse it pleasurable to both correct? Being intimant with eachother is a way to show their love to eachother. This does not mean you have to have a child inorder to be intiment.
V.6) "So do not deprive each other of sexual relations. The only exception to this rule would be the agreement of both husband and wife to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time, so they can give themselves mor completely to prayer.
Here is says not to deprive sexual relations with each other. There is no mention of having children inorder to have sexual relations with your spouse.

Here it would seem that a married couple can have sexual relations just to have sex.
 
Plus if having sex normally was not a good thing, then God would not have given it all the mental and physical benefits that it gives.

webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/10-surprising-health-benefits-of-sex

If you dont want to read here they are:
  1. Sex Relieves Stress
  2. Sex Boosts Immunity
  3. Sex Burns Calories
  4. Sex Improves Cardiovascular Health
  5. Sex Boosts Self-Esteem
  6. Sex Improves Intimacy
  7. Sex Reduces Pain
  8. Sex Reduces Prostate Cancer Risk
  9. Sex Strengthens Pelvic Floor Muscles
  10. Sex Helps You Sleep Better
They give the information along with scientific study and medical research on the pages. I just listed the basic topics covered.
 
Irish_Polock said:
Greetings from the hill country my fellow Texan!

So in response to your rebuttal:

In the context of 1 Corinthians 7, Paul is giving advice and commandments to the unmarried and the married. Two of the major threads of thought running through the chapter are: (1) avoid fornication (6:13-19; 7:12, 5b, 9, 37) and (2) accept the state in which God has called you (7:7, 17, 29, 24, 39b). First, in verses 6:13-7: 9, Paul is warning especially against fornication. In 6:13-19, he states that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Our body is not our own, but the Lord’s (6:13b, 19b). Twice he warns the Corinthians to flee fornication (6:13, 18). A man who commits fornication with a prostitute becomes “one flesh” with her (6:16). Instead of allowing the Lord to use his body for spiritual purposes, the man gives his body over to carnal purposes. Likewise, contraception is using the body for carnal purposes, while seeking to ignore the spiritual purposes.
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Greetings from the South East.

I can agree with you on most of this except for the last part. Using contraception is not mentioned in the Bible, its not mentioned for or against its usage. It has nothing to do with ignoring the spiritual purpose. If one choses not to take the chance of having a child but wants to be intimant with each other, then the responsible thing to do would be to use contraception. In the Bible it is understood that we use our bodies for carnal purposes that is why in verse 5. it says…Afterward the should come together again so that Satan won’t be able to tempt them because of their lack of self-control.
 
BlueShadow123 said:
Plus if having sex normally was not a good thing, then God would not have given it all the mental and physical benefits that it gives.

webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/10-surprising-health-benefits-of-sex

If you dont want to read here they are:
  1. Sex Relieves Stress
  2. Sex Boosts Immunity
  3. Sex Burns Calories
  4. Sex Improves Cardiovascular Health
  5. Sex Boosts Self-Esteem
  6. Sex Improves Intimacy
  7. Sex Reduces Pain
  8. Sex Reduces Prostate Cancer Risk
  9. Sex Strengthens Pelvic Floor Muscles
  10. Sex Helps You Sleep Better
They give the information along with scientific study and medical research on the pages. I just listed the basic topics covered.
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I am not sure where you got the idea that you have to have less sex if you are not using contraceptives. 🤷 Could you expand on this thesis?
 
rev_kevin said:
Where is it in the Bible other than Onan and be fruitful and multiply because these do not have to do with contraception.
Click to expand...
Where is it in the bible that abortion is murder? That life begins at implantaion instead of conception?

It seems to me that you have a double standard.
 
mark_a said:
Where is it in the bible that abortion is murder? That life begins at implantaion instead of conception?

It seems to me that you have a double standard.
Click to expand...
You shall not murder. Its a commandment. Now if you abort a living thing, a living baby that would be murder and against the commandment. To you life begins at the moment of conception and that is life, a human being. So to abort that life would be murder.

I need to go for now because its my son’s 16th birthday today and I have a house full of people that I need to be with, most of whom would be my son.
 
What are you talking about, Irish?

I simply listed the BENEFITS of sex. There are mental and physical benefits.

Thats all my post was about. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
rev_kevin said:
You shall not murder. Its a commandment. Now if you abort a living thing, a living baby that would be murder and against the commandment. To you life begins at the moment of conception and that is life, a human being. So to abort that life would be murder.
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I’m already familiar with my own beliefs and with Catholic beliefs.

But how could murder or more acurately, killing, be justifyable for you but not for me?
 
BlueShadow123 said:
when you use a condom what are you killing? The most you are doing is not giving life. But you are not giving life by having sex purposely when a woman is non-fertile.

Same thing. And you might say its a barrier, but what if it was a female condom? or sponge?

There are different types of birth control that do not give off hormones and that to do not separate the flesh
Click to expand...
“Every sperm is sacred…every sperm is great, if a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate” comes to mind.
 
rev_kevin said:
I need to go for now because its my son’s 16th birthday today and I have a house full of people that I need to be with, most of whom would be my son.
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Happy birthday to your son and a hundred happy returns, as we in the south like to say!
 
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