Protestants DENY Tradition?

[yateanieys]

God didn’t give us a Bible to rule over us and guide us into all truth, He gave us a Church. That’s like a five year old saying, “Why should I listen to my mother’s counsel? Instead, I’m just going to read books and come to my own conclusions.” My friend, the Bible didn’t fall out of the sky and land in your lap. Faith comes by hearing. If all you need is the Bible, then why even be on these forums?

No, but the Bible is more than just a book, my friend. It’s like a five year in an orphanage who’s only link to his biological mother and father was they left him an account of how to grow into a responsible, caring adult, and that if he followed their influence written in the pages of the book, that they would one day return and take him home. Twisted story, but it makes more sense that simply reading books. The Bible isn’t just a fairy tale, it has personal value as it defines the key to salvation in a way we can easily understand. And I’m on this forum because God has charged me with proving the Catholic Church wrong. Lol, nah, just kiddin’

nfallibility is not the same as impeccability; the former pertains to truth, the latter pertains to personal holiness. When the Church teaches that the Pope enjoys a certain privilege of infallibility (under limited circumstances and limited subjects), we are not saying the Pope is without sin or incapable of sinning. Furthermore, infallibility, properly speaking, is a privilege that is exercised by virtue of an office.

The former does indeed pertain to truth, the absolute truth in this case (absolutel as in two opposite end of the spectrum). It also pertains to Latin, in- “not” -fallibilis “liable to err.” There are no degrees of infallibility. Either it’s prone to make mistakes or it is impossible for such to make mistakes by definition. So if you agree that no man is incapable of sinning, then no man is infallible as no man is not prone to err. No need to even mention the otherwise; that pretty much seals the case shut. That is, again, unless you want to cite how the Catholic Dictionary defines infallible.

 

[Jubilarian]

You’re the one claiming that Sola Scriptura is our “mantra” and that we deny tradition - could show me where this is the case. Because if you can, I’ll stop being Lutheran.

As far as I know, we preach Christ and Him crucified, and as far as tradition goes it is only corrected by scripture.

You are an unusual Protestant if sola scriptural doesn’t flow off your lips regularly . Also, check the title of this thread. It reads, " Protestants DENY Tradition?" Notice the question mark in particular. It’s a question.

 

[yateanieys]

You are an unusual Protestant if sola scriptural doesn’t flow off your lips regularly . Also, check the title of this thread. It reads, " Protestants DENY Tradition?" Notice the question mark in particular. It’s a question.

I’m AG, which is technically a Protestant offshoot, but many in the congregation throw around the term “non-denominational” often. I’ve always found that kind of oxymoronic as that in itself defines a denomination (whether by regular or Catholic dictionary definition). As far as the Sola Scriptura, I’ve honestly never looked into it until now. I can’t say we deny it, because I’ve never heard anyone in the churches I’ve been to ever mention it. I’m not sure how a congregation denies something which I assume the vast majority of them have never even heard of. Maybe that’s why we aren’t fully Protestant

Anyway, we derive our inspiration and teachings from the Word of God through the Bible. That’s one of our traditions. That’s seems enough to satisfy the question in this thread’s title. So, in answer to the OP, no we don’t deny tradition.

 

[benjohnson]

You are an unusual Protestant if sola scriptural doesn’t flow off your lips regularly . Also, check the title of this thread. It reads, " Protestants DENY Tradition?" Notice the question mark in particular. It’s a question.

I’m only one of 70,000,000 Lutherans, so I’m not that unique. I know a few Anglicans as well would not deny tradition.

It sounds like you have a good and hopeful answer that our respective communions are not so far apart in this regard.

 

[yateanieys]

Also, check the title of this thread. It reads, " Protestants DENY Tradition?" Notice the question mark in particular. It’s a question.

Thanks for dumbing that down, by the way. I honestly wasn’t sure if it was a question or a piece of bait, but since you affirmed that it is, in fact, a question, I don’t feel like I was cleverly conned into regretfully defending a position here against my better judgment.

Notice the differentiaion in tone and it’s obvious questionability starting in the second sentence. That was a sarcastic comment.

 

[cmodrmac]

in the Episcopal Church -we have a 3 legged chair of scripture -tradition and reason ( ne intellect)

do not generalize when you talk about non Roman catholic Christians

 

[JustaServant]

No, but the Bible is more than just a book, my friend. It’s like a five year in an orphanage who’s only link to his biological mother and father was they left him an account of how to grow into a responsible, caring adult, and that if he followed their influence written in the pages of the book, that they would one day return and take him home. Twisted story, but it makes more sense that simply reading books. The Bible isn’t just a fairy tale, it has personal value as it defines the key to salvation in a way we can easily understand.

This quote is good for Catholics to see because it shows the stark difference between mainline Protestants and fundamentalists. The above comes dangerously close to “Biblioatry”, actual worship of the Bible.

 

[AbideWithMe]

My intent was to uncover the fact that (1) tradition is necessary for scripture to exist and (2), that Protestants unwittingly engage in traditions even though some are not in the bible. If my question was poorly executed, I apologize for the confusion.

And all followed by a question mark . Typically, that symbol implies a question, not a statement of fact. How sensitive are we getting on this forum?

You stated your intent: “to uncover the fact…”; don’t be surprised if people realize you’re not simply sincerely asking a question.

 

[Jubilarian]

This quote is good for Catholics to see because it shows the stark difference between mainline Protestants and fundamentalists. The above comes dangerously close to “Biblioatry”, actual worship of the Bible.

I agree. Often times Protestants write as if the bible always existed and fell from the sky with no prior history. Rarely if ever do the suffering saints throughout the ages get mention
due to a bible alone approach.

 

[JonNC]

And all followed by a question mark . Typically, that symbol implies a question, not a statement of fact. How sensitive are we getting on this forum?

I’m not being sensitive. You said to Ben: "If you can show where the “generalization” is in my question, please do. "

So I did.

Further, you have responded to TarkanAttila:
“My intent was to uncover the fact that (1) tradition is necessary for scripture to exist and (2), that Protestants unwittingly engage in traditions even though some are not in the bible. If my question was poorly executed, I apologize for the confusion.”

My response to this would be, regarding Lutherans, it is not unwittingly. We know we engage, not only in traditions, but also Tradition. Sola scriptura is not a rejection of Tradition or traditions. It is a practice of using scripture as the final norm. We regularly use traditions and Tradition, and point to Tradition as a witness to the truth of scripture and the faith.

Jon

 

[Jubilarian]

You stated your intent: “to uncover the fact…”; don’t be surprised if people realize you’re not simply sincerely asking a question.

Your attempt at deciphering my words is flawed. Firstly, my “intent” is not in the the question portion of the thread title. I answered one CAF member based on his assertion that I said “Protestants deny tradition” (which is the same wording as my thread title). I did not say that, I asked a question, hence the question mark.

And yes, ultimately my intent was to get at what I believe as a Catholic when I addressed another member based on his question . Intentions are not the same as statements. That’s an easy one, unless your doing this….

 

[AbideWithMe]

Your attempt at deciphering my words is flawed. Firstly, my “intent” is not in the the question portion of the thread title. I answered one CAF member based on his assertion that I said “Protestants deny tradition” (which is the same wording as my thread title). I did not say that, I asked a question, hence the question mark.

And yes, ultimately my intent was to get at what I believe as a Catholic when I addressed another member based on his question . Intentions are not the same as statements. That’s an easy one, unless your doing this….

Isn’t it odd that just about every one else is at fault on this thread but you, Jubilarian?

 

[Jubilarian]

I’m not being sensitive. You said to Ben: "If you can show where the “generalization” is in my question, please do. "

So I did.

Further, you have responded to TarkanAttila:
“My intent was to uncover the fact that (1) tradition is necessary for scripture to exist and (2), that Protestants unwittingly engage in traditions even though some are not in the bible. If my question was poorly executed, I apologize for the confusion.”

My response to this would be, regarding Lutherans, it is not unwittingly. We know we engage, not only in traditions, but also Tradition. Sola scriptura is not a rejection of Tradition or traditions. It is a practice of using scripture as the final norm. We regularly use traditions and Tradition, and point to Tradition as a witness to the truth of scripture and the faith.

Jon

The “generalization” question was posed early in the thread. At that point, I showed that my thread title was a question, with a question mark, not a generalization of Protestants. My point was, where is the generalization if its a question?

And yes, it appears you also have difficulty with the difference between “intent” and making a blanket statement. Questions are often used to “get at something”.

I think apologies for confusion, if you feel you have caused them as I did are quite common place though, don’t you? Remember, intent is different than a making a statement. Of course later on I had to just about spell out that I feel Protestants deny traditions in relation to sola Scriptura.

 

[JustaServant]

Jub, remember this thread?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=926902
And this response?

I am a revert as well. I spent twenty years away from the Church, and at one point stood in a pulpit as a Baptist pastor. I can empathize VERY MUCH with your emotions.
What advice can I give? Well, you mention fundamentalism, but you don’t specify the type, there are many. One thing you need to be careful of is not to transfer how you thought as a fundamentalist into the Catholic Church. What I mean is that sense of negativity the pervades fundamentalism simply does not fit with Catholicism. You need to make a conscience effort to avoid that.
Second, time will dissipate many of these feelings. Take your time to just sit in the pew at Mass and get used to just being Catholic. Don’t try to be super-Catholic, just humble yourself and work on your journey. As you grow that frustration will disappear.
Thirdly, get to know Protestants that are not anti-Catholic, Lutherans, Episcopals, Methodist, ect.
It’s been almost eight years for me back in the Church, and that frustration is gone. I’ve even added several people I used to know from our old church on my Facebook page. I’ve learned to live and let live. I’ve learned to accept people where they are. Oh, I can debate them into the ground, but I do it only rarely now.
Look at my posts when I first joined CAF and my posts now. The anger and frustration will go away, I know it did for me.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12558286&postcount=31

 

[Jubilarian]

Isn’t it odd that just about every one else is at fault on this thread but you, Jubilarian?

What’s odd is how confused you are between a question and ultimate intent. Your response is simply the best you have, and that is to gain empowerment by using “everyone else”
. Strangely, you avoid the apology I made a while back if some confusion exists.

 

[AbideWithMe]

This quote is good for Catholics to see because it shows the stark difference between mainline Protestants and fundamentalists. The above comes dangerously close to “Biblioatry”, actual worship of the Bible.

I don’t think that’s what he or she is doing. While I don’t quite agree with the thought or the comparison, as Yate is an AoG Pentecostal it’s safe to assume he or she believes the Holy Spirit is actively speaking through the Bible to us still today—speaking through it as a letter from our Father; not that the Bible is to be worshipped.

 

[Jubilarian]

Jub, remember this thread?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=926902
And this response?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12558286&postcount=31

Thanks, I understand what you are saying. Your 100% correct. I needed to see that. I apologize to you. You have been trying to help, and you have.

 

[JustaServant]

I don’t think that’s what he or she is doing. While I don’t quite agree with the thought or the comparison, as Yate is an AoG Pentecostal it’s safe to assume he or she believes the Holy Spirit is actively speaking through the Bible to us still today—speaking through it as a letter from our Father; not that the Bible is to be worshipped.

Perhaps, at least I hope so. I did say it comes close to it. The only place I have seen it very clearly, is with KJV-only fundamental Baptists.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Your response is simply the best you have, and that is to gain empowerment by using “everyone else”

LOL, thanks for the free pop psychology.

 

[JustaServant]

Thanks, I understand what you are saying. Your 100% correct. I needed to see that. I apologize to you. You have been trying to help, and you have.

No prob my friend. You have to simmer down before you lock horns with the mod.
Watch some of the older posters on this board, many of them are reverts too.