Protestants do not really believe in Sola Scriptura

[guanophore]

Thank you, The Bible speaks for itself… all of life answers lies there within. It will answer any ones questions about Jesus Christ, His Father or The Holy Spirit.,

Wow. Where in the Bible does the list of what belongs in the Bible appear?

Where does it command that we can observe the Sabbath on Sunday, instead of Saturday?

Where is the word Trinity?

There is nothing out side of His word that is not speculation.

Gosh. Jesus will be pretty disappointed, since I think He believes He existed before the Bible.

In fine I am on topic and can prove by using scripture there is nothing out side His word that really matters… after all…

Such a statement represents a very narrow mind.

Who has believed our message?

What is Sola scriptura

Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, “by scripture alone”) is the assertion that the Bible as God’s written word is self-authenticating, clear (perspicuous) to the rational reader, its own interpreter (“Scripture interprets Scripture”), and sufficient of itself to be the final authority of Christian doctrine.

You are right, we do not believe the “message” of sola scriptura. To us, it represents a “different gospel” than what was entrusted to us from the Apostles. Where in the Bible does it state it is “self-authenticating”? If it is “clear to the rational reader” how do you account that there are so many different denominations based upon this “clear” interpretation? Where does Scripture state that it interprets itself? How do you account for obscure passages that don’t seem to have any reference elsewhere?

Where does the bible say about itself that it is sufficient of itself? Why do the contents of it say the opposite?

 

[Agnes_Ainsworth]

Speaking as a cradle Catholic, I believe that the Roman Catholic is the living Bible fulfilling the promises of Jesus that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all Truth. This promise indicates that it would be a gradual revelation and it is still ongoing, and is termed the Development of Doctrine. All is contained in Scripture but not fully revealed yet. The Vatican II document Dei Verbum quotes Sr Augustine: “God, the inspirer and author of both Testaments, wisely arranged that the New Testament be hidden in the Old and the Old be made manifest in the New”.

The twin doctrines of the Protestant Reformation, Sola Scriptura and Sola Fides are the greatest heresies in the history of the Christian Church which have led to divisions of Babelian proportions which even Martin Luther recognised in his time. Sola Scriptura has led to the formation of thousands upon thousands of “churches”. How could this be if Scripture was self evident? The only teaching they share in common is that the Roman Catholic Church is not the true Church. New churches are formed on misinterpreting a single verse of Scripture. Can this be Jesus’ will, who prayed that they all be one? Are they all teaching the Truth? Does it matter? Not, according to some contributors on this thread.

The issues dividing the Churches and causing scandal are the direct result of these two heresies. Just as God appointed Moses to dispense His teachings from the “Chair”, a role passed on to his successors by the laying on of hands, so the early Church Fathers came to understand, Peter was given this role and the Feast of the Chair of Peter has been celebrated snce the fourth Century. Jesus taught that His disciples should do as the Scribes and Pharisees say because they sit on the Chair of Moses but not what they do. A clear reference for the future Church of the importance of obedience even if those who dispensed this teaching (the Bishops) did not practice what they preached. His teaching would be bound by the keys, another Old Testament type. A Bible study of every reference to Peter clearly shows Jesus’ choice of leader. The reinterpretation of Scripture about homosexual practices, fornication, adultery and divorce, since the widespread use of artificial birth control which brought about the notion of sexual pleasure as an end in itself, is a direct result of Sola Scriptura. The Roman Catholic Church has never wavered on this issue, even though most of its members are in rebellion. But Jesus asked the question; “When I return will I find any faith on earth”. Widespread apostasy too is biblical prophecy. “They will hold to the form of religion but deny the power of it.” 2 Timothy 3:5.

As a side issue Sola Fide enables Christians to believe they are saved by faith alone regardless of works either good or bad (sin) so sin is celebrated. If any Protestant wishes to deny this, I recommend doing a search on the heresy of antinomianism which is mind blowing!

Perhaps the most greatest reason why these Truths are so important, lies in the spiritual battle between God and satan, good and evil and how powerful is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, prefigured by the prophet Malachi; the perpetual sacrifice offered by the gentiles from the rising of the sun to its setting, quoted in the Didache as well as St Justin Martyr and St Irenaeus. The development of the seven Sacraments, rooted in the Scriptures, with their biblical disciplines in adherence to these covenants have enormous power in the battle against satan. I am not denying that there are many Protestants engaged in this spiritual battle by prayer, but God has continually intervened throughout the history of the Church, directly in the lives of mystics and saints endorsing His words by miracles and profound prophecies. The lives of the Saints give testimony to the extraordinary charisms manifested in the past and all over the world in these present days of darkness. All Christians should be fighting these spiritual battles rather than engaging in semantics. Paul instructed Timothy there was to be no wrangling about words. 2 Timothy 2:14.

 

[guanophore]

That is because to some it seems , The Bible is the “LIVING” Word… ( It’s Alive - He Has Risen ) and to others it’s mere inanimate print.

Catholics believe that Jesus is the Word. Although He is reflected in the Scripture, he is not a mere “speculation” outside of it.

**You said:

how do you prove the bible’s authority outside of the Bible, that is the question.**

1. By His Creation – You will know by His creation that He Is.
2. by Faith, Faith comes by hearing and hearing from The Word of God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld His glory for a season.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 2 Timothy 3:16

The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Psalms 12:6

None of these things authenticates what is scripture, and what is not. What you are giving is evidence that God exists.

Of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. Ecclesiastes 12:12b

seems to me this is more of an “anti-bible” reference.

How do you know that the books of your Bible are not these “many books” the making of which is a “weariness of the flesh”?

But these are written,** that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;** and that believing ye might have life through his name. John 20:31

Inspiration unto faith is one thing. Authority to govern doctrine is another.

The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Psalms 19:1 (NIV)

Again, a testimony that creation witnesses to the existence of God, nothing about the validity of the Scriptures. This statement would be true with no bible at all.

But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds of the air, and they will tell you; or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish of the sea inform you. Which of all these does not know that the hand of the LORD has done this? Job 12:7-9 (NIV)

Again, no need for a Bible here…

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

No need for a bible here either. This was true before any of the books of the Bible were written.

“Ask it will be given to you
Seek you will find
Knock it will be opened to you”

• Jesus
  Matt. 7:7

Well, I am still seeking answers to the questions in the post before this one!

The self-witness of Scripture must not only be the first consideration in the argument; it must be the final and decisive consideration as faith comes by hearing His “LIVING” word.

Ok, I disagree with your premise, but go ahead and produce this “self witness” to scripture.

When I ministered - there was NOTHING I COULD DO ON MY OWN and I knew it well… to “convince” any one the Bible is The Gospel (Truth, Way and Life) -

I would hope not. Such a thing would be an act of idolatry.

Only when I let go and let God through Christ and his Holy Spirit did any one hear… His Word ( not me or mine ) when Jesus comes through you, the Devils power is broken, ears are open as He commanded and Eyes finally truly see all that matters in life…reconciliation with Father God through Jesus Christ.

I need not Prove His Word is Alive one needs to PROVE it’s not and have been trying to since Christ came into the world…

Catholics don’t need proof of His word either. What we do want is proof of your statements, which you have not provided.

 

[guanophore]

This whole notion that we can't check out the Bible ourselves and disagree with one another - or disagree with the Church - troubles me.

Have you considered letting it go? It is certainly not part of Apostolic Teaching, and does not seem to be productive in any way.

Does anyone really believe that Christ will condemn us for honestly believing differently from another Christian?

No.

For centuries, even within the Church, various doctrines were taught or newly declared. Read Abelard’s Sic et Non in which he points out these contraditions within the Church. Doesn’t anyone really believe that our good and merciful God will punish honest differences of opinion? Of course not! When Jesus was asked how to eternal life (Luke 10) he said nothing about dogma or joining a church, but told the lawyer to love God and his neighbor.

Jesus was quite clear that He wants unity.

Jesus was making dogma when He answered that question! He had not yet established the Church, but when He did, that became one of the foundations.

2. Just a note re the number of books in the Bible. Not that it makes all that much difference. The 'Protestant' Old Testament follows the Hebrew scripture as used in synagogues today. As I recall, St. Jerome went along with the same number - 39 in the OT, 27 in the NT. There is an argument on both sides, but to claim that only one side is right is silly and unnecessary.

Catholics don’t believe that Jesus did anything that was “silly and unnecessary”. When He quoted from the Septuagint, we believe He did so because He considered it the right version. Later, when the Jews who put him to death canonized a different set of books, the Apostles followed what Jesus used. Why should we follow the lead of those who rejected Him? I think it matters.

    3. I heard someone say recently that most religions divide between those that see God as a God of wrath and those who see God as a God of love. I prefer the latter and don't worry at all if my brothers and sisters adhere to different interpretations of Christianity as long as they don't piously condemn me for my 'big tent' viewpoint.

Jesus was clear that we are to let the wheat and the weeds grow together.

 

[joessoft]

**None of these things authenticates what is scripture, and what is not. What you are giving is evidence that God exists. **

LOL… without HIM there would be no WORD, in order to validate scripture and the prophecy’s of the Old Testament that were fulfilled in The New Testament there must be a God who has shown Himself to us as Three unique individuals, yet the three are one.

 

[Mea_Culpa]

**None of these things authenticates what is scripture, and what is not. What you are giving is evidence that God exists. **

LOL… without HIM there would be no WORD, in order to validate scripture and the prophecy’s of the Old Testament that were fulfilled in The New Testament there must be a God who has shown Himself to us as Three unique individuals, yet the three are one.

**I think it’s safe to say most Catholics believe in the existence of God. There no real need to prove that.

What you are not showing is how sola scriptura is taught in the Bible. There is a good reason you are not showing that - because sola scriptura is a false doctrine and is not taught in the Bible. (By it’s own logic, to be true sola scriptura would have to be taught clearly in the Bible. It isn’t. Therefore it contradicts itself.)

Sola scriptura = everything we need to know is in Holy Scripture
Sola scriptura is not taught in Holy Scripture.
Therefore, sola scriptura is not something we need to know.**

 

[joessoft]

**seems to me this is more of an “anti-bible” reference.

How do you know that the books of your Bible are not these “many books” the making of which is a “weariness of the flesh”?**

Another side of the coin is, How do you know it’s not prophetic and referring to the many who write BOOK after BOOK outside The Word continually trying to prove or disprove God or The Bible?

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen… I will stand on “Faith” that His word is authentic, He needs neither you or I to further authenticate… It is finished, the battle is over, and Jesus is Lord. I can’t wait for the end of the Bible to play out it’s purpose. I hope I am alive and part of those glorious days.

 

[KingsKid46]

****This not necessarily true. Most born again Christians believe that the Bible is the final authority concerning all matters of doctrine and of faith.

 

[JRKH]

****This not necessarily true. Most born again Christians believe that the Bible is the final authority concerning all matters of doctrine and of faith.

Please refer to post number 202

Peace
James

 

[Mea_Culpa]

**seems to me this is more of an “anti-bible” reference.

How do you know that the books of your Bible are not these “many books” the making of which is a “weariness of the flesh”?**

Another side of the coin is, How do you know it’s not prophetic and referring to the many who write BOOK after BOOK outside The Word continually trying to prove or disprove God or The Bible?

If sola scriptura teaches that the Bible is self-interpreting, how can there be confusion on what this Bible quote means? Shouldn’t all reasonable people who read a passage from the Bible come to the same understanding of it, according to sola scriptura? If there are differing interpretations, how are those differences resolved if everyone is their own authority, interpreting the Bible as they see fit?

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen… I will stand on “Faith” that His word is authentic,

**So, sola scriptura is not taught in Holy Scripture, but you have faith that it is a true doctrine. How does that fit in to the doctrine of sola scriptura, that states that everything we need to know is in Holy Scripture? If something isn’t in Holy Scripture, but I want to believe it, I can just believe it because I have faith that it is true?

What you’re saying is that the Bible is not your only rule of faith and morals, you can also go by “faith.” So if I’m a Mormon (I’m not, just giving an example) and I have faith that The Book of Mormon is the word of the Lord, does that make it so? If not, why not, according to your logic? If you can stand on faith, why can’t they?**

It is finished, the battle is over, and Jesus is Lord. I can’t wait for the end of the Bible to play out it’s purpose. I hope I am alive and part of those glorious days.

**You’re talking about the glorious days of the end times as described in the Book of Revelation, I assume. Whose interpretation of what it says in the Book of Revelation are you going by? There are thousands of ideas of what the Book of Revelation is actually talking about. Again, if the Bible were self-interpreting and clear, why are there so many different interpretations and understandings of what Revelation is all about?

(Hint: It’s because sola scriptura is a false doctrine.) **

 

[joessoft]

Catholics don’t need proof of His word either. What we do want is proof of your statements, which you have not provided.

I’ll stand on HIS WORD as authority on any statement made… we never wander far away from His Truth.

I am not a Teacher - that was not my gift. Nor a Pastor, yet another gift… When I am led by the spirit I need do nothing but obey to practice my calling of evangelism. Be there and open my mouth and let The Holy Spirit do all the grunt work on ones heart.

Example:
Once I was in Arizona ministering the Love of Jesus and His plan of Salvation to the homeless.

They were definitely folks of the Highway and Byway Jesus speaks about …

Had been in the one area for a few days where folks ( including some families with kids) were living out of cars or vans or tents
and every evening we gathered by a fire in a circle to read the bible and sing songs … and pray the Holy Spirit would do what he had to do to touch people hearts.

One night a group from Youth with A Mission out of Canada came to that area to evangelize … I stood down and took a break … but they were shunned.

The next day the group came to where I was staying as they has seen the response from the same people when “Jesus Came” and was allowed to do… vs me, my self and I trying to do, asking if I could tell them what they were doing wrong.

I had to GRIN… that was the answer they sought - what were they doing vs. allowing the Holy Spirit (Faith and Trust) to work through them. I see that in a lot in various posts here… pride is a spirit from hell who roams the earth seeking whom ever he can destroy, and pride always comes just before the fall… kinda
started in The Garden of Eden… I believe.

Letting go and letting God, truly trusting goes against the grain

Why is trusting God so difficult?

The Bible says this about trusting God, “Trust in the LORD with all your heart and** lean not on your own understanding**” (Proverbs 3:5). Furthermore, it tells us that “He who trusts in himself is a fool. . .” (Proverbs 28:26). Still, most of us have difficulty trusting God at least at one point or another in our walk with Him.

There are probably many reasons why trusting is difficult. God’s ways don’t always make sense to us.** God told Noah to build an ark.** It may have never rained up to this point and the nearest body of water was probably many miles away. It could not have made much sense to Noah at all (story found in Genesis 6-8). We want life to make sense.** We always want to set our own terms and timetables.**

**God works on a different timetable than our minds comprehend. ** God promised Abraham a son from his own body through his wife Sarah. It was at least 24 years before this promise was fulfilled in the manner in which God had promised. In the meantime, Abraham and Sarah had difficulty trusting God and tried their own methods to fulfill the promise (read about this in Genesis 15-17). We want what we want and we want it. . .now! It is difficult to trust in a plan that requires us to surrender all control of the time for completion.

In order to trust in God, you must totally surrender your will, your ideas, your desires, and your future in to God’s hands.

Many of us are “control freaks.” We don’t want to give the control of any part of our lives over to another. If you don’t believe that God loves you fully and really does have your best interests at heart and desires the very best for you, trusting Him is going to be extremely difficult. It takes a very special relationship to allow that measure of surrender. Most of us have a tendency to claim trust in God. However, at the first sign of any difficulty or trial, we think that God must not love us because He is allowing this difficulty to happen. The trial is exactly what God is using to test the level of trust that we have in Him.

In spite of the trials, we always have God’s promise that the trials and tests that we go through are for our good (Romans 8:28, Hebrews 12:2, 2 Corinthians 4:17, James 1:2). We learn that it is through trust that our relationship with God strengthens and our love for Him grows.

We can trust in many things. None, however, offer the protection plan, the long term security, or the benefits that trusting in God offers. All of the other things in which we place our trust can fail. God never fails! In the words of King David, “. . .Do not be afraid or discouraged, for the LORD God, my God, is with you. He will not fail you or forsake you. . .” (1 Chronicles 28:20).

Despite all this, I’m right – look how off you are according to my perception type posts… I will conclude with the most important thing I could ever type.

We have all sinned and deserve God’s judgment. I will be a sinner until the day I die. God, the Father, sent His only Son to satisfy that judgment for those who believe in Him. Jesus, the creator and eternal Son of God, who lived a sinless life, loves us so much that He died for our sins, taking the punishment that we deserve, was buried, and rose from the dead according to the Bible. If you truly believe and trust this in your heart, receiving Jesus alone as your Savior, declaring, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved from judgment and spend eternity with God in heaven.

I have no righteousness on my own… my only righteousness is THROUGH and IN Jesus Christ…

(( PS I.m over 60 and almost home with Him… so please excuse my typo’s ))

What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

Oh! precious is the flow
That makes me white as snow;
No other fount I know,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

For my pardon, this I see,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
For my cleansing this my plea,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

Nothing can for sin atone,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
Naught of good that I have done,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

This is all my hope and peace,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
This is all my righteousness,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

Now by this I’ll overcome—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
Now by this I’ll reach my home—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

Glory! Glory! This I sing—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
All my praise for this I bring—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

 

[Des]

If I read you correctly, you would also say that I as an individual would have no authority whatsoever to tell someone the gospel message that is expressed in 1st Corinthians 15 verses 1 to 8, (which I believe is fairly simple for most people to understand), and to claim as my ‘authority’ - The Book of Corinthians " which is in the New Testament used by all orthodox churches, and seems to have been used in the formulation of the Nicene Creed which is accepted by by Catholic and Protestants?

The Gospel message is alot more than believe in the Nicene Creed and you are saved. There is more to it that is neglected and I as a Catholic know of 7 Sacraments included in this message. So you see, it’s not as simple as it seems. To simplify the message you are already taking away from it and preaching another doctrine. You preach partial truths mixed in with error.

If you do, that seems like you are raising a “barrier to entry” that I’m not sure Jesus would agree with…

Jesus already disagrees with you reading the Bible only and remaining out of His Church.

Just a bit more…
The point I’m trying to make here is that there are significant portions of the various separate inspired writings which are quite clear in their meaning to just about anyone of average intelligence and reasoning powers. Where it says “Don’t steal” and Don’t commit adultry" you don’t really need a theologian to tell you what it means do you? And to my personal observation just about everyone I’ve ever spoken to on the straightforward bits all seem to come up with exactly the same understanding that I have.

There is a difference between having authority to preach without the aid of the Church and telling what is right and wrong according to human reasoning. With or without the Bible the things written in the human heart knows adultery is wrong along with physically stealing from others.

I ask you this question. Do you think Jesus set it up so that his disciples are able to preach error? Would He give you authority over his flock to preach if you stop using your Infallible source to gain insight into the Gospel, thereby leading the faithful into error? Jesus prayed that we may be one flock, with one shepherd so it’s very unlikey that he would set us free with His Written Word only that can easily mislead as it has proven it’s done.

I’m not saying ‘traditions’ aren’t important or useful in certain areas eg. eschatology for example where scripture doesn’t really have much that is clear to understand, (except the basics eg. Jesus IS coming again, but nobody knows when) but has a lot that is expressed symbolically.

Show me one protestant or non denom Christian who gives the simple message then doesn’t add to it once more questions are put to them? I see it from a different perspective than you do. I know you do not preach the Eucharist, the Sacrament of Reconciliation, Mary being the Immaculate Conception, Purgatory, etc. so when one such as yourself tells others that what you give them is the Gospel as you see it then it will for sure set them up to fall unless they are pointed in the right direction which doesn’t happen.

But to blithely sweep up everything, and say "Oh, you’ve got no ‘authority’ to tell anyone about that because your church hasn’t been around for 2000 years and ours has"seems a tad extremist.

Actually I said you have no authority to preach the Gospel if you are fallible and your only means of knowing the truth is from interpretating. Do you honestly believe the apostles were capable of teaching erroneously when they were commanded to teach and preach?

 

[guanophore]

"guanophore:

**None of these things authenticates what is scripture, and what is not. What you are giving is evidence that God exists. **

LOL… without HIM there would be no WORD, in order to validate scripture and the prophecy’s of the Old Testament that were fulfilled in The New Testament there must be a God who has shown Himself to us as Three unique individuals, yet the three are one.

We are not in disagreement on that point. The thread is about Protestants do not really believe in Sola Scriptura. You have asserted that everything we need is in the Scripture, yet scripture says the opposite within itself. You have failed to show where, within the all sufficient scripture, can be found the index. What goes in there? Why did the rest of the 400+ books floating round at the time the NT was formed, claiming to be inspired, not get into it?

 

[Mea_Culpa]

Catholics don’t need proof of His word either. What we do want is proof of your statements, which you have not provided.

I’ll stand on HIS WORD as authority on any statement made… we never wander far away from His Truth.

I am not a Teacher - that was not my gift. Nor a Pastor, yet another gift… When I am led by the spirit I need do nothing but obey to practice my calling of evangelism. Be there and open my mouth and let The Holy Spirit do all the grunt work on ones heart.

Example:
Once I was in Arizona ministering the Love of Jesus and His plan of Salvation to the homeless.

They were definitely folks of the Highway and Byway Jesus speaks about …

Had been in the one area for a few days where folks ( including some families with kids) were living out of cars or vans or tents
and every evening we gathered by a fire in a circle to read the bible and sing songs … and pray the Holy Spirit would do what he had to do to touch people hearts.

One night a group from Youth with A Mission out of Canada came to that area to evangelize … I stood down and took a break … but they were shunned.

The next day the group came to where I was staying as they has seen the response from the same people when “Jesus Came” and was allowed to do… vs me, my self and I trying to do, asking if I could tell them what they were doing wrong.

I had to GRIN… that was the answer they sought - what were they doing vs. allowing the Holy Spirit (Faith and Trust) to work through them. I see that in a lot in various posts here… pride is a spirit from hell who roams the earth seeking whom ever he can destroy, and pride always comes just before the fall… kinda
started in The Garden of Eden… I believe.

Letting go and letting God, truly trusting goes against the grain

Why is trusting God so difficult?

The Bible says this about trusting God, “Trust in the LORD with all your heart and** lean not on your own understanding**” (Proverbs 3:5). Furthermore, it tells us that “He who trusts in himself is a fool. . .” (Proverbs 28:26). Still, most of us have difficulty trusting God at least at one point or another in our walk with Him.

There are probably many reasons why trusting is difficult. God’s ways don’t always make sense to us.** God told Noah to build an ark.** It may have never rained up to this point and the nearest body of water was probably many miles away. It could not have made much sense to Noah at all (story found in Genesis 6-8). We want life to make sense.** We always want to set our own terms and timetables.**

**God works on a different timetable than our minds comprehend. ** God promised Abraham a son from his own body through his wife Sarah. It was at least 24 years before this promise was fulfilled in the manner in which God had promised. In the meantime, Abraham and Sarah had difficulty trusting God and tried their own methods to fulfill the promise (read about this in Genesis 15-17). We want what we want and we want it. . .now! It is difficult to trust in a plan that requires us to surrender all control of the time for completion.

In order to trust in God, you must totally surrender your will, your ideas, your desires, and your future in to God’s hands.

Many of us are “control freaks.” We don’t want to give the control of any part of our lives over to another. If you don’t believe that God loves you fully and really does have your best interests at heart and desires the very best for you, trusting Him is going to be extremely difficult. It takes a very special relationship to allow that measure of surrender. Most of us have a tendency to claim trust in God. However, at the first sign of any difficulty or trial, we think that God must not love us because He is allowing this difficulty to happen. The trial is exactly what God is using to test the level of trust that we have in Him.

In spite of the trials, we always have God’s promise that the trials and tests that we go through are for our good (Romans 8:28, Hebrews 12:2, 2 Corinthians 4:17, James 1:2). We learn that it is through trust that our relationship with God strengthens and our love for Him grows.

We can trust in many things. None, however, offer the protection plan, the long term security, or the benefits that trusting in God offers. All of the other things in which we place our trust can fail. God never fails! In the words of King David, “. . .Do not be afraid or discouraged, for the LORD God, my God, is with you. He will not fail you or forsake you. . .” (1 Chronicles 28:20).

Despite all this, I’m right – look how off you are according to my perception type posts… I will conclude with the most important thing I could ever type.

We have all sinned and deserve God’s judgment. I will be a sinner until the day I die. God, the Father, sent His only Son to satisfy that judgment for those who believe in Him. Jesus, the creator and eternal Son of God, who lived a sinless life, loves us so much that He died for our sins, taking the punishment that we deserve, was buried, and rose from the dead according to the Bible. If you truly believe and trust this in your heart, receiving Jesus alone as your Savior, declaring, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved from judgment and spend eternity with God in heaven.

I have no righteousness on my own… my only righteousness is THROUGH and IN Jesus Christ…

(( PS I.m over 60 and almost home with Him… so please excuse my typo’s ))

What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

Oh! precious is the flow
That makes me white as snow;
No other fount I know,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

For my pardon, this I see,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
For my cleansing this my plea,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

Nothing can for sin atone,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
Naught of good that I have done,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

This is all my hope and peace,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
This is all my righteousness,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

Now by this I’ll overcome—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
Now by this I’ll reach my home—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

Glory! Glory! This I sing—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
All my praise for this I bring—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

Let’s see, you given a long personal story with no point as far as I can see, a long meditation on trusting God, a long meditation on all men are sinners, and then you typed out a song.

What does this have to do with sola scriptura?

Try to focus here:

This is what we need to know:

Where is sola scriptura taught in the Bible?

If it’s not taught in the Bible, it’s self-contradictory and therefore false.

 

[guanophore]

Another side of the coin is, How do you know it’s not prophetic and referring to the many who write BOOK after BOOK outside The Word continually trying to prove or disprove God or The Bible?

I am sure that is the case. You are dodging the topic. How do you know that the books in the bible are Scripture, and not books of weariness? Where in the Bible does it say tht nothing outside of itself has any value? Why do the writers of the bible quote works from outside the bible?

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen… I will stand on “Faith” that His word is authentic, He needs neither you or I to further authenticate… It is finished, the battle is over, and Jesus is Lord. I can’t wait for the end of the Bible to play out it’s purpose. I hope I am alive and part of those glorious days.

Ok, how do you know what “His Word” is? I agree that one should stand on faith. Do you have any idea where the Bible came from?

BTW, when Jesus said “it is finished” he was not saying the battle is over.:dts:

 

[KathleenElsie]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 2 Timothy 3:16 scripture is profitable not the only way of teaching and reproof

The point is. it’s by Faith, not by sight after you have met Jesus Christ face to face… the Bible goes from a book of print type and
transforms into a Living Word… but only YOU as an individual can make it happen… YOU have to ask Jesus to forgive your sins and ask Him to come into your life… but Jesus and his word is so simple many stumble over that “rock”… so is the bible your rock? And how is your interpretation any better then the next persons?

Lets look at His death. While hanging on the cross 2 men worthy of death hung near him. One begged for all he could think of… his personal and selfish well being, while the other recognized who his Savior was hanging by him and acknowledged Jesus was Lord yes he acknowledged Jesus was Lord no Bible told him that as there was no New Testament Bible yet written , to the glory of God the Father… and Jesus said today you will be with me in Paradise ( The man confessed he deserved death -( was a sinner) - and acknowledged Jesus as Lord - (a John 3. example of salvation.). did he go through any long periods of what some have called "indoctrination? nope. In my heart I believe Jesus was laying down one of His final principles for all mankind to see, His Law of Simplicity… that, as he professed would
be a stumbling block for man.

Today may be your day, have you asked Him to show you whats really real? You don’t need any fancy words or bible quotes flowing from your mouth or pen for Him to hear you… just a heart felt need for the Truth… Seek and you will find Him and your eyes will be opened …you acknowledge that the Bible is not necessary for salvation

Go off by yourself … in a quiet place and just speak to Him from your heart… He will answer… you will know the truth and the truth will set you free…

Still no chapter and verse that says the Bible alone is “the way”.

 

[KathleenElsie]

seems to me this is more of an “anti-bible” reference.

How do you know that the books of your Bible are not these “many books” the making of which is a “weariness of the flesh”?

Another side of the coin is, How do you know it’s not prophetic and referring to the many who write BOOK after BOOK outside The Word continually trying to prove or disprove God or The Bible?

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen… I will stand on “Faith” that His word is authentic, He needs neither you or I to further authenticate… It is finished, the battle is over, and Jesus is Lord. I can’t wait for the end of the Bible to play out it’s purpose. I hope I am alive and part of those glorious days.

Why are there thousands of Independent Protestant communities each with a different interpretation of one part of the Bible or another? Where do they go for the final and true interpretation?

 

[joessoft]

Still no chapter and verse that says the Bible alone is “the way”.

He is The Way, and He is The Word that became flesh and lived among us.

So I assume you will state I am leaving with tail between legs because I only stand on The Bible that I believe is the ONLY source man needs to know the Past, Present and Future of how we became, when Jesus came, Dies then rose again, and how in the final chapter Jesus is returning. So be it.

I also believe there are fields of soul who need to hear the Good News… the harvest is plentiful and the workers are few… and debates like this to “prove” ones right and all else see through broken bifocals takes away from our main mission… Reach the Lost.

In Titus Chapter 3 we are admonished to:

“Avoid foolish arguments, genealogies, rivalries, and quarrels about the law, for they are useless and futile.”

“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.” (Romans 8:2) so that I could have the privilege of working in the fields…

Turn to NO ONE BUT Jesus today. He will, by His Spirit, show you the way.

God Bless and I hope I see y’all on the other side.

((g))

 

[JRKH]

To all poster,
It appears pointless to continue to debate with joesoft. While I believe he is sincere, it is obvious that he is caught in the web of Bible Idolotry. He believes the Bible to be contain the sum total of God. He even stated in an earlier post that “Jesus IS the Bible”.
Nothing that we can say at this time will have any effect on him and engaging him will only result in additional irrelevent posts.

Just my 2cents worth.

Peace
James

 

[Des]

Turn to NO ONE BUT Jesus today. He will, by His Spirit, show you the way.

Here is another simple message of the Gospel already drenched in error.