Protestants do not really believe in Sola Scriptura

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To Meaculpa. Here are a few texts to show the correct Hermeneutical principle of arriving to truth. Please read the following, Isa.28:10-13, Isa.8:20, 2 Tim.2:15, Acts 17:11, 2 Tim.3:15-17, 1 Peter 1:7-11, Luke 24:27, John 5:39, 1 Cor.2:13,14, 2 Peter 3:15,16, Matt.11:25, I Thess. 2:13, John 17:17, 1 Peter 1:22-25, Job 22:21,22, 1 Tim. 4:16, Col.2:8, Matt. 24:4. Prayer is very essential in study. Please read, Dan. 9:3,22, Ps. 119:99,110, Prov.2:3-5. These are but a few of Scriptural guidance texts to coming to truth as it is in our Savior. When we use extra-biblical sources we will get into trouble. It is safe to do what our Savior did, have an, It is written, How readest thou. I hope & pray this helps you in your personal journey with the True Lover of your soul, your sin pardoning Redeemer, Yeshua Messiah.
Next is John 5:39:

You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me;

Again, this says the Scriptures bear witness to Jesus. Jesus is talking about the Old Testament here, obviously. Again, Catholics affirm that the Old Testament is really about Jesus Christ, that his coming was prophesied many times, that many of the people and events in the OT are types of Jesus and his life.

Unfortunately, this passage does not prove sola scriptura. In John 5:30, Jesus begins the passage this verse is taken from by saying: “If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true.” Jewish legal tradition required two or three witnesses to sustain a claim. Jesus lists as his witnesses: 1) John the Baptist (5:33) 2) his miracles (5:36) 3) the Father (5:37) 4) the Scriptures (5:39) 5)and Moses (5:46). {see the Ignatius Study Bible by Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch, Gospel of John, p. 28}

Far from being sola, Scripture is one of five witnesses to his authority.
 
Considering the above texts were for Meaculpa to ponder & reply, I will answer you Perry. Are you a Catholic or Protestant? If Catholic, I know why you answered as you did. The Catholic Church goes by Scripture & tradition outside of Scripture. Also faith & works for salvation. As a Protestant I stand on “It is written”. Not church dogma. It is written, “In vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men”. “You make of none effect the law of God by keeping your tradition”. If you read those Scriptures they point to the Scriptures as our guide. Not what you, me, the pope, prelates, pastors, commentators, or churches say is truth. Thankyou for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
if you were Catholic, you would see that this doesn’t make sense if you think bout it…

There are 35,000 diff churches all teaching different things… Someone definitely needs to infallibly interpret Scripture so there is not all this division in the Body of Christ, which division is NOT God’s will. God is not the author of confusion… Jesus prayed for unity… (John 20?)…
 
Considering the above texts were for Meaculpa to ponder & reply, I will answer you Perry. Are you a Catholic or Protestant? If Catholic, I know why you answered as you did. The Catholic Church goes by Scripture & tradition outside of Scripture. Also faith & works for salvation. As a Protestant I stand on “It is written”. Not church dogma. It is written, “In vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men”. “You make of none effect the law of God by keeping your tradition”. If you read those Scriptures they point to the Scriptures as our guide. Not what you, me, the pope, prelates, pastors, commentators, or churches say is truth. Thankyou for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
larrym,

I was a Protestant for many years. Protestants come to this forum and make statements that they stand on scripture; which, is untrue. Protestant theology is not God produced. It was produced by Luther. The theology is based upon faith alone. If one reads history concerning Luther and Calvin their theology was based upon fear of God and the inadequacies in the confessional. Protestants now subscribe to this theology. They did not read the Bible for themselves and interpret it with this theology. They couldn’t because it does not exist. Faith alone is based upon Luther juxtaposing Romans 1:17. Protestant theology is based upon him intentionally reading the Bible backwards. This is historical and you can read this information from his own writings. The origination of the Protestant Theology is based upon misrepresentations of Luther.

If Protestants truly followed Sola Scriptura you would read the entire Bible. Protestant can’t because they again follow Luther, not the inspiration of God, and eliminated the Deutercanonicals books. The DCs were eliminated because Luther was losing a debate against Johann Eck at Liepzig concerning purgatory, in an act of “desperation” as secular writers have called it. Luther had to fall back to Jerome’s list against the DCs. The problem with this is one Luther did it to save face. The second problem is that Jerome’s list has been proved wrong by the Dead Sea Scrolls. His list was incomplete and his assumption was wrong and the Catholic Church was correct. This is historically proven. The reason Protestants do not add these books back is because as Calvin states if the DC are added back their theology “falls apart”. Protestants also do not follow Jerome because in later years he names four of these books as inspired books. Luther ignores these statements in order to support his man made theology. The last problem with this use of Jerome is he explicitly states that to not follow the Church is to scatter the Church and to be the Antichrist. Strong words indeed; however, Protestant fall back to the list of a man taken that explicitly states one should remain in the faith with the Church. The use of Jerome is very selective because it was not God inspired it is a man made theology.

I have sources for all of my statements. The problem is these facts and many many more are this information is withheld from Protestants. Once one reads the history of the Bible and of the reformers one understands that the Protestant theology was generated by man. Luther was not John the Baptist. Calvin was not John the Baptist. They were both murderers. Calvin actually strapped a Bible on a heretic’s chest so that the flames would burn the persons face while he was dying. He watched the person slowly die over a half an hour. He murdered or excommunicated over 6 percent of the people in Geneva. Have Popes failed? Yes. They have and at times miserably; but, we hold to Jesus not the Popes. We hold to Christ protecting our doctrine. Protestants hold to a theology created by murderers, nothing more. Which is worse a Pope abusing an indulgence or a man that kills? By the way the Protestant theology of Faith alone was created prior to Luther’s supposed concerns with indulgences. Amazingly in his first visit to Rome he had no issues with any of it. This again can be see in his own writings. Indulgences were an excuse for a man craving political power. Protestant’s theology is not based upon the Bible. It is man made. Unfortunately wonderful Protestant people are fooled with half truths that have been spread for centuries. If you believe in Sola Scriptura than investigate the DCs add them back and reread the Bible. Protestants will find that the theology is created by man not God.
 
To Meaculpa. Here are a few texts to show the correct Hermeneutical principle of arriving to truth. Please read the following, Isa.28:10-13, Isa.8:20, 2 Tim.2:15, Acts 17:11, 2 Tim.3:15-17, 1 Peter 1:7-11, Luke 24:27, John 5:39, 1 Cor.2:13,14, 2 Peter 3:15,16, Matt.11:25, I Thess. 2:13, John 17:17, 1 Peter 1:22-25, Job 22:21,22, 1 Tim. 4:16, Col.2:8, Matt. 24:4. Prayer is very essential in study. Please read, Dan. 9:3,22, Ps. 119:99,110, Prov.2:3-5. These are but a few of Scriptural guidance texts to coming to truth as it is in our Savior. When we use extra-biblical sources we will get into trouble. It is safe to do what our Savior did, have an, It is written, How readest thou. I hope & pray this helps you in your personal journey with the True Lover of your soul, your sin pardoning Redeemer, Yeshua Messiah.
Next we have 1 Cor 2:13,14:

And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit.
The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

I don’t see anything related to sola scriptura. Paul is saying that his teachings are not of this world but come from the Holy Spirit.

I would add that this is the same Holy Spirit that Jesus sent in John 16:12-15

“I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.”

This is the Holy Spirit that guides and protects the Catholic Church from teaching error in faith and morals, just as Jesus said He would.

So again, no sola scriptura, but some more Biblical basis for what we Catholics believe.
 
To Meaculpa. Here are a few texts to show the correct Hermeneutical principle of arriving to truth. Please read the following, Isa.28:10-13, Isa.8:20, 2 Tim.2:15, Acts 17:11, 2 Tim.3:15-17, 1 Peter 1:7-11, Luke 24:27, John 5:39, 1 Cor.2:13,14, 2 Peter 3:15,16, Matt.11:25, I Thess. 2:13, John 17:17, 1 Peter 1:22-25, Job 22:21,22, 1 Tim. 4:16, Col.2:8, Matt. 24:4. Prayer is very essential in study. Please read, Dan. 9:3,22, Ps. 119:99,110, Prov.2:3-5. These are but a few of Scriptural guidance texts to coming to truth as it is in our Savior. When we use extra-biblical sources we will get into trouble. It is safe to do what our Savior did, have an, It is written, How readest thou. I hope & pray this helps you in your personal journey with the True Lover of your soul, your sin pardoning Redeemer, Yeshua Messiah.
Next is 2 Peter 3:15,16:

And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

This sounds more like a reason why we need an authority, like the Catholic Church, in order to correctly interpret Scripture. It definitely doesn’t say the Bible interprets itself - just the opposite. It is “hard to understand” and can be “twisted.” Seems we need something like the Magisterium of the Church if we are not to be misled in our reading of Scripture. (I guess that’s not too surprising coming from the first Bishop of Rome.)

Score

sola scriptura 0
Catholicism 10
 
To Meaculpa. Here are a few texts to show the correct Hermeneutical principle of arriving to truth. Please read the following, Isa.28:10-13, Isa.8:20, 2 Tim.2:15, Acts 17:11, 2 Tim.3:15-17, 1 Peter 1:7-11, Luke 24:27, John 5:39, 1 Cor.2:13,14, 2 Peter 3:15,16, Matt.11:25, I Thess. 2:13, John 17:17, 1 Peter 1:22-25, Job 22:21,22, 1 Tim. 4:16, Col.2:8, Matt. 24:4. Prayer is very essential in study. Please read, Dan. 9:3,22, Ps. 119:99,110, Prov.2:3-5. These are but a few of Scriptural guidance texts to coming to truth as it is in our Savior. When we use extra-biblical sources we will get into trouble. It is safe to do what our Savior did, have an, It is written, How readest thou. I hope & pray this helps you in your personal journey with the True Lover of your soul, your sin pardoning Redeemer, Yeshua Messiah.
Matthew 11:25:

At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to infants”

No sola scriptura here.

The last part of this verse is interesting. The Father has revealed the truth not to the wise and understanding like the Pharisees and scribes, but to the infants - the apostles, simple fishermen like Peter. This recalls to mind Matthew 16:15-19:

He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earch shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Peter, the first Bishop of Rome, is the Rock on whom Jesus builds his Church (the Catholic Church), and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

sola scriptura 0
Catholicism 11
 
To Meaculpa. Here are a few texts to show the correct Hermeneutical principle of arriving to truth. Please read the following, Isa.28:10-13, Isa.8:20, 2 Tim.2:15, Acts 17:11, 2 Tim.3:15-17, 1 Peter 1:7-11, Luke 24:27, John 5:39, 1 Cor.2:13,14, 2 Peter 3:15,16, Matt.11:25, I Thess. 2:13, John 17:17, 1 Peter 1:22-25, Job 22:21,22, 1 Tim. 4:16, Col.2:8, Matt. 24:4. Prayer is very essential in study. Please read, Dan. 9:3,22, Ps. 119:99,110, Prov.2:3-5. These are but a few of Scriptural guidance texts to coming to truth as it is in our Savior. When we use extra-biblical sources we will get into trouble. It is safe to do what our Savior did, have an, It is written, How readest thou. I hope & pray this helps you in your personal journey with the True Lover of your soul, your sin pardoning Redeemer, Yeshua Messiah.
1 Thess 2:13:

And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

No sola scriptura here.

Notice that the word of God here is Paul’s oral preaching, not the Bible.

In Acts 20:35, Paul says

In all things I have shown you that by so toiling one must help the weak, remembering the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, “It is more blessed to give than to receive.”

This saying of Jesus doesn’t appear in any of the four Gospels. This and other sayings and deeds of Jesus were transmitted through oral preaching but not recorded in the Gospels, and have passed into the Tradition of the Church, where they are preserved by the power of the Holy Spirit.
 
To Meaculpa. Here are a few texts to show the correct Hermeneutical principle of arriving to truth. Please read the following, Isa.28:10-13, Isa.8:20, 2 Tim.2:15, Acts 17:11, 2 Tim.3:15-17, 1 Peter 1:7-11, Luke 24:27, John 5:39, 1 Cor.2:13,14, 2 Peter 3:15,16, Matt.11:25, I Thess. 2:13, John 17:17, 1 Peter 1:22-25, Job 22:21,22, 1 Tim. 4:16, Col.2:8, Matt. 24:4. Prayer is very essential in study. Please read, Dan. 9:3,22, Ps. 119:99,110, Prov.2:3-5. These are but a few of Scriptural guidance texts to coming to truth as it is in our Savior. When we use extra-biblical sources we will get into trouble. It is safe to do what our Savior did, have an, It is written, How readest thou. I hope & pray this helps you in your personal journey with the True Lover of your soul, your sin pardoning Redeemer, Yeshua Messiah.
John 17:17:

Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

By “them” Jesus is here referring to the apostles.

in v. 14, Jesus says “I have given them your word.”

Did Jesus hand them all a Bible?

No, the word is “these things I speak in the world” (John 17:13)

So Jesus is talking about the oral teachings he has passed on to the apostles, that he is now sending them out to preach (orally and eventually in writing) to the world.

The Word of God is the truth. That is a true statement. But it is not a justification for sola scriptura. The word of God can be Holy Scripture, or it can be oral teaching (tradition) handed down as it was handed from Jesus to the apostles.
 
To Meaculpa. Here are a few texts to show the correct Hermeneutical principle of arriving to truth. Please read the following, Isa.28:10-13, Isa.8:20, 2 Tim.2:15, Acts 17:11, 2 Tim.3:15-17, 1 Peter 1:7-11, Luke 24:27, John 5:39, 1 Cor.2:13,14, 2 Peter 3:15,16, Matt.11:25, I Thess. 2:13, John 17:17, 1 Peter 1:22-25, Job 22:21,22, 1 Tim. 4:16, Col.2:8, Matt. 24:4. Prayer is very essential in study. Please read, Dan. 9:3,22, Ps. 119:99,110, Prov.2:3-5. These are but a few of Scriptural guidance texts to coming to truth as it is in our Savior. When we use extra-biblical sources we will get into trouble. It is safe to do what our Savior did, have an, It is written, How readest thou. I hope & pray this helps you in your personal journey with the True Lover of your soul, your sin pardoning Redeemer, Yeshua Messiah.
1 Peter 1:22-25:

Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere love of the brethren, love one another earnestly from the heart. You have been born anew, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; for
“All flesh is like grass
and all its glory like the flower of grass.
The grass withers, and the flower falls,
but the word of the Lord abides for ever.”
That word is the good news which was preached to you.​

That last line, where it explains that the word of God is the good news which was preached (orally) to you, kind of takes the wind out of the sola scriptura sails.

Again, this affirms that the Word of God is everlasting, which Catholics firmly believe. It doesn’t in any way support sola scriptura, though.

P.S. Don’t protestants trying to justify sola scriptura feel like you’re playing an away game when you quote the first Bishop of Rome to try to justify your doctrine?
 
1 Thess 2:13:

And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.No sola scriptura here.

Notice that the word of God here is Paul’s oral preaching, not the Bible.
This is so true Mea. I notice alot that when the Word of God is brought up in a certain passage, many protestants get so excited they automatically assume it means the Written Word since that is all they know. They forget that the Apostles themselves did an awful lot of preaching before they ever wrote an epistle, disproving the necessity of Sacred Scripture only.
 
This is so true Mea. I notice alot that when the Word of God is brought up in a certain passage, many protestants get so excited they automatically assume it means the Written Word since that is all they know. They forget that the Apostles themselves did an awful lot of preaching before they ever wrote an epistle, disproving the necessity of Sacred Scripture only.
The oral preaching of the apostles was a special time in church history. Even though it could be said what they taught was in a sense “oral Scripture” during those days that is no longer true today. The only thing that qualifies as Scripture today is found in the Old and New Testaments.
 
To Meaculpa. Here are a few texts to show the correct Hermeneutical principle of arriving to truth. Please read the following, Isa.28:10-13, Isa.8:20, 2 Tim.2:15, Acts 17:11, 2 Tim.3:15-17, 1 Peter 1:7-11, Luke 24:27, John 5:39, 1 Cor.2:13,14, 2 Peter 3:15,16, Matt.11:25, I Thess. 2:13, John 17:17, 1 Peter 1:22-25, Job 22:21,22, 1 Tim. 4:16, Col.2:8, Matt. 24:4. Prayer is very essential in study. Please read, Dan. 9:3,22, Ps. 119:99,110, Prov.2:3-5. These are but a few of Scriptural guidance texts to coming to truth as it is in our Savior. When we use extra-biblical sources we will get into trouble. It is safe to do what our Savior did, have an, It is written, How readest thou. I hope & pray this helps you in your personal journey with the True Lover of your soul, your sin pardoning Redeemer, Yeshua Messiah.
I’m going to do two on this message, since they are easily dismissed.

Job 22:21,22:

“Agree with God, and be at peace;
thereby good will come to you.
Receive instruction from his mouth,
and lay up his words in your heart.”

No sola scriptura here. Very good advice though.

1 Tim 4:16

Take heed to yourself and to your teaching; hold to that for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Is this the right verse? It doesn’t have anything to do with sola scriptura.

There is an interesting verse right before this 1 Tim 4:14: Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophetic utterance when the elders laid their hands upon you.

This is an early example of the sacrament of Holy Orders. (one of the seven sacraments of the Catholic Church - in which resides the fullness of the Truth)
 
To Meaculpa. Here are a few texts to show the correct Hermeneutical principle of arriving to truth. Please read the following, Isa.28:10-13, Isa.8:20, 2 Tim.2:15, Acts 17:11, 2 Tim.3:15-17, 1 Peter 1:7-11, Luke 24:27, John 5:39, 1 Cor.2:13,14, 2 Peter 3:15,16, Matt.11:25, I Thess. 2:13, John 17:17, 1 Peter 1:22-25, Job 22:21,22, 1 Tim. 4:16, Col.2:8, Matt. 24:4. Prayer is very essential in study. Please read, Dan. 9:3,22, Ps. 119:99,110, Prov.2:3-5. These are but a few of Scriptural guidance texts to coming to truth as it is in our Savior. When we use extra-biblical sources we will get into trouble. It is safe to do what our Savior did, have an, It is written, How readest thou. I hope & pray this helps you in your personal journey with the True Lover of your soul, your sin pardoning Redeemer, Yeshua Messiah.
Again, I’ll do two for one, since again they aren’t even about sola scriptura.

Col 2:8

See to it that one one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ.

The only reference I can find to sola scriptura here is “empty deceit” - other than that, 🤷

Matthew 24:4

And Jesus answered them, “Take heed that no one leads you astray.”

Very good advice, but a justification for sola scriptura - not so much.

OK, I went through every single Biblical justification for sola scriptura that was provided - and found that none of them is anywhere near a justification for sola scriptura.

Sola scriptura is unscriptural. It is not taught anywhere in Holy Scripture. If it is, please show me where.

Sola scriptura is the foundation that the whole protestant house of cards is built on - and it is a demonstrably false doctrine. It is unscriptural, it is self-contradictory, and it is false even by its own logic (all truth is taught in scripture - sola scriptura is not taught in scripture - therefore, sola scriptura is not true).
 
The oral preaching of the apostles was a special time in church history. Even though it could be said what they taught was in a sense “oral Scripture” during those days that is no longer true today. The only thing that qualifies as Scripture today is found in the Old and New Testaments.
If this is true, and SS is also true, then you should be able to quote from Scripture, when and how the validity of oral tradition passed from the scene and was replaced with a purely written tradition.
You should also be able to explain, from Scripture (Read, The Bible) how the correct books were selected for inclusion and at what time “The Bible” took over from Oral Tradition.

Peace
James
 
The oral preaching of the apostles was a special time in church history. Even though it could be said what they taught was in a sense “oral Scripture” during those days that is no longer true today. The only thing that qualifies as Scripture today is found in the Old and New Testaments.
It’s the oral transmission of the Word of God. While Mea Culpa is doing a splendid job of knocking down those supposed verses to back up SS, you need to prove to us where and when the oral deposits of the faith ended. Or why God can’t have His Oral Word remain error free just like His Written Word. Bet you can’t. Oh I’m sure you can bring up the same old verse about how men will distort the Word of God unto their own destruction but that’s where SS comes into play.

At the first Council of Jerusalem, where does it show them reading from Scripture to arrive at their conclusion that circumcision and the observance of the Mosaic Law were not necessary for salvation. They were certainly discussing the matter so why didn’t they have their Scriptures open to show their decision was backed up by the Written Word of God? The Apostles definitely weren’t reading from Scripture to arrive at the conclusion of what they were preaching. After all, such an important decision MUST be proven from Scripture right.
 
Do you know of any place in Scripture where tradition is used to discern truth from error?
First of all, we Catholics don’t believe in sola scriptura, so everything we believe doesn’t have to appear in the Bible.

Secondly, we don’t believe tradition is the sole rule of faith and morals either.

We believe in the word of God revealed through Holy Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium of the Church.

Sola scriptura, on the other hand, believes the Bible is the sole rule of faith and morals. So everything they believe has to be in the Bible. Where things get a little tricky for the sola scripturists is that sola scriptura is not taught anywhere in the Bible.

How they resolve that in their own minds is a mystery to me.
 
The oral preaching of the apostles was a special time in church history. Even though it could be said what they taught was in a sense “oral Scripture” during those days that is no longer true today. The only thing that qualifies as Scripture today is found in the Old and New Testaments.
Where is this doctrine of “oral Scripture” found in the Bible?
 
Do you know of any place in Scripture where tradition is used to discern truth from error?
Yep…the Epistle of St. Jude. As follows:

[8] Yet in like manner these men in their dreamings defile the flesh, reject authority, and revile the glorious ones.
[9] But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, disputed about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a reviling judgment upon him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.”
[10] But these men revile whatever they do not understand, and by those things that they know by instinct as irrational animals do, they are destroyed.
and

[12] These are blemishes on your love feasts, as they boldly carouse together, looking after themselves; waterless clouds, carried along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted;
[13] wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars for whom the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved for ever.
[14] It was of these also that Enoch in the seventh generation from Adam prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with his holy myriads,
[15] to execute judgment on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness which they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
[16] These are grumblers, malcontents, following their own passions, loud-mouthed boasters, flattering people to gain advantage.
[17] But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
[18] they said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.”
[19] It is these who set up divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.
[20] But you, beloved, build yourselves up on your most holy faith; pray in the Holy Spirit;
[21] keep yourselves in the love of God; wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Jude is pretty clear that he is using two non canonical Jewish Traditional sources to help the church discern truth from error.

The first text is from the Assumption of Moses, and the second is from the Book of Enoch. 😃
 
QUOTE=estesbob;4084893]One must remember the first rule of Sola Scriptura,that is that Scripture is to be taken literally unless it supports a Catholic doctrine. Thus a verse that says “call no man father” means all Catholics are sinning when they use that title when addressing their pastor BUT:
Not sure where you got that view from

The verse extract you quote comes from Matthew 23 verse 9, which in the King James Version reads - in context
8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
The Amplified Bible renders it this way

8But you are not to be called rabbi (teacher), for you have one Teacher and you are all brothers.
Code:
9And do not call anyone [in the church] on earth father, for you have one Father, Who is in heaven.

10And you must not be called masters (leaders), for you have one Master (Leader), the Christ.
Here’s an extract from Matthew Henry’s Commentary on the Gospel of Mathew. Chap 23 and verse 9, First published in 1706, it was written more as a** practical **guide for daily devotions and the living of a pious life, and so many Protestants find it helpful to use it sometimes for that purpose even today. My point in including it is just to further show that protestants as a whole don’t attach the interpretation you ascribe to them, nothing more.
Secondly, They are forbidden to ascribe such titles to others (v. 9); “Call no man your father upon the earth; constitute no man the father of your religion, that is, the founder, author, director, and governor, of it.” The fathers of our flesh must be called fathers, and as such we must give them reverence; but God only must be allowed as the Father of our spirits, Heb. xii. 9. Our religion must not be derived from, or made to depend upon, any man. We are born again to the spiritual and divine life, not of corruptible seed, but by the word of God; not of the will of the flesh, or the will of man, but of God. Now the will of man, not being the rise of our religion, must not be the rule of it. We must not jurare in verba magistri—swear to the dictates of any creature, not the wisest or best, nor pin our faith on any man’s sleeve, because we know not whither he will carry it. St. Paul calls himself a Father to those whose conversion he had been an instrument of (1 Cor. iv. 15; Phil. 10); but he pretends to no dominion over them, and uses that title to denote, not authority, but affection: therefore he calls them not his obliged, but his beloved, sons, 1 Cor. iv. 14.
The reason given is, One is your Father, who is in heaven. God is our Father, and is All in all in our religion. He is the Fountain of it, and its Founder; the Life of it, and its Lord; from whom alone, as the Original, our spiritual life is derived, and on whom it depends. He is the Father of all lights (Jam. i. 17), that one Father, from whom are all things, and we in him, Eph. iv. 6. Christ having taught us to say, Our Father, who art in heaven; let us call no man Father upon earth; no man, because man is a worm, and the son of man is a worm, hewn out of the same rock with us; especially not upon earth, for man upon earth is a sinful worm; there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not, and therefore no one is fit to be called Father.
 
This is a Human problem not Catholic/Protestant both “sides” which I hate saying since we are both Christians and that is how the rest of the world sees us-both sides pick and throw out things they see as right or wrong. Both sides claim they are right or they would not follow that path. It is the same with Hindu’s, Wiccan, Buddhist, Islamic, Jews, and on and on. They all take their holy books or oral traditions and different sects think they and they alone hold the right key and follow the true way.

Back to the Christian side I dont think God has a favorite child or church I think he looks at us all one on one and judges us many ways- what we know/how much we know, our heart what we meant by our actions and so on.

The first post says they were a protestant for all those years and named things that particular church group believed in but you have others that dont believe that way. You have Catholics that dont agree or believe on many traditional things too or think the scripture was not interpreted rightly by the Church, again a human condition not your faith/religion. I have heard certain Protestant sects say exacty what the first poster stated BUT against the Catholics on “solo Scriptura”-- why dont the Catholics believe the Bible it says have no other gods before me yet they pray to the saints and have statues, the Bible says call no man father and Rabbi and some take that literally, I have heard them also say Jesus gets lost among the saints, I have heard the quote of no idols/statues, and on and on. So if *we wanted *both sides can point the finger on and on like it has been for so many years OR we can come together on WHAT we do agree on which is much more then what we disagree on. Remember when we travel abroad to a country that is non-Christian they dont ask or see us as Catholic or Protestant they see us as only as Christian since we follow Christ. We have to stop the finger pointing, disagree sure, debate sure but in the end we must remember WE are on the SAME side.

The same with Islamic friends I have or Jewish friends they will ask me those exact same questions and even question on other sects in their *own *faith. So its not about Catholic vs. Protestant its about how each one of us believes our faith and the Bible. The Amish will not even have a picture in their homes due to the verse about not fashioning anything etc. no stars, no gods etc. even their dolls have no faces. Jehovah Witness will not take blood even if dying on how they believe the scriptures or pledge alligence etc. Very strict Jews also the same with no pictures or such in the home and the same with the strict Islamic sects-both by the way dont understand how as Christians we can eat pork, shellfish etc. because IF we believed the whole Bible or the Law we would not since this is forbidden, so see even they question us-again a HUMAN thing we all do --NOT just Protestant.

Christians usually say to that question about the Old Testament or Law- it is because we are under grace not law, but then they ask why do you tithe then? So many outside the Christian faith think we “pick and decide” the “laws” we wish to obey.

So once again it is interpretation of that particular group or sect. Not a Protestant thing-a human condition, we all question and we all believe or hope we follow the right way and each sect can take things and throw it at the other side and ask why, why, and why.
 
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