Protestants do not really believe in Sola Scriptura

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Mea_Culpa said:
This thread is so long that this is probably the fourth or fifth group of sola scripturists to come in and try to defend it. Funny thing is, they all say the same things. None of them have been able to show where sola scriptura is taught in Holy Scripture, though.
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Why is it necessary for the Scriptures themselves to teach this for it to be true?
 
To Nita. How sad it is when we obey out of fear of missing heaven & stay out of hell. What happened to loving the One Who died for YOU that you would rather die than sin against Him or your fellow man? The only reason we should want to be obedient is because we love Him & want Him to be happy. Not to attain heaven or stay out of hell.
 
larry_m said:
To Nita. How sad it is when we obey out of fear of missing heaven & stay out of hell.
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Not sad, just the first step for many - the “beginning” as Scripture notes:
*Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; a good understanding have all those who practice it. His praise endures for ever!
112:1 Praise the LORD. Blessed is the man who fears the LORD, who greatly delights in his commandments!

Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight*.
What happened to loving the One Who died for YOU that you would rather die than sin against Him or your fellow man? The only reason we should want to be obedient is because we love Him & want Him to be happy. Not to attain heaven or stay out of hell.
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I underlined the only phrase I’d take issue with - specifically the word “only”. **Very definitely love of God is primary **- the first and greatest of all commandments. But God wants us to love ourselves also (as well as others) and to care about where we spend eternity.

God bless you,
Nita
 
Thankyou Nita. The Hebrew word for fear, in the text you gave me, is, yiraw, meaning to reverence. Just a question, do you think our Father , Son & Spirit want us to serve them out of fear, as in being fearful of what He will do to us, or love? Thankyou for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
Mea Culpa;4148985]Well, if everything necessary for salvation is in scripture, shouldn’t sola scriptura be in scripture?
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Not necessarily. What is your defintion of Sola Scriptura that makes you think this?
It’s not.
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larry_m said:
Thankyou Nita. The Hebrew word for fear, in the text you gave me, is, yiraw, meaning to reverence.
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The word carries the element of fear. Do you have a Hebrew search mechanism? If so, you might like to check out the other times the word is used. (Just a few eg. Gen 18:15 and 19:30; Deut 2:25; Is 7:25)
In its use in the expression “fear of the Lord” it would be a reverential fear that recognizes the supreme power of God; that there will be a judgment; that He is the judge … (cf Mt 25: 31-46).
Just a question, do you think our Father , Son & Spirit want us to serve them out of fear, as in being fearful of what He will do to us, or love? Thankyou for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
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I thought I answered that, but I guess I wasn’t too clear on this thread either!!!
Of course God wants us to do it out of love for Him. But very often that is not the way people begin to obey. Sometimes love for oneself (eternal welfare) is the only motivation that will get someone to begin to convert/change. God above all knows our fallen human nature. Why do you think He used the threat of punishment throughout the OT - captivity, etc. - in an effort to get the Jews to obey?

Perhaps you were very gifted by God as a child and had an overwhelming love of Him that motivated all your actions - to the exclusion of any other motives. But surely you must recognize that many people (children and adults) are not that way. Are you saying there is no point in them being obedient to God’s laws (even tho they know they might go to hell if they disobey in a very serious matter) until they can do it motivated by love of God ONLY? If that is your position, then we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

God bless you (and I think we’ve strayed from the topic of this thread).

Nita
 
Thankyou Nita for your reply. It is good to see someone uses the original language in their study. Alot of people don’t. Kudos. Yes, the Almighty uses everything He possibly can, consistent with His character, to save us & wake us up. As you stated, He uses judgement, such as the Israelites slavery, to wake them up to the fact that their only redemption was in Him. I do not want to put our Mighty One in a box. As a finite human being it is easy to do. Sorry to misunderstand you. Enjoy your responses. Your brother in our Savior.
 
larry_m said:
Thankyou Nita for your reply. It is good to see someone uses the original language in their study. Alot of people don’t. Kudos. Yes, the Almighty uses everything He possibly can, consistent with His character, to save us & wake us up. As you stated, He uses judgement, such as the Israelites slavery, to wake them up to the fact that their only redemption was in Him. I do not want to put our Mighty One in a box. As a finite human being it is easy to do. Sorry to misunderstand you. Enjoy your responses. Your brother in our Savior.
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This thread is about the false, unscriptural doctrine of sola scriptura.
 
eucharist04 said:
Protestants were really honest with themselves and with others, they do not really believe in scripture alone. Example(s):
  1. Altar calls at the end of a message. Not found in scripture, this Tradition.
  2. Asking Jesus into your heart bying praying a prayer. Not found in scripture, this is Tradition.
  3. Protestants do not interpet scriptures with scripture(not always) but interpet them through life circumstances and through their experiences.
  4. Protestants also execpt thier leaders “infallible” interpetation of scripture.
How do I know this, I was a protestant for 23 years before I became Catholic:thumbsup:
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With all due respect, although it may be accurate to refer to Pentecostals as non-Catholics, they are not technically Protestants, in that they adhere to many doctrines and practices that the Reformers would not recognize. I myself was part of a Pentecostal church, and I understand your frustration.

Having said that, regarding your list of inconsistencies…
  1. The altar call is truly NOT a Protestant practice, and was not a part of American Christianity until Charles Finney made it popular in his mid-1800s tent revivals. Because true Protestants–from Luther to Calvin to Spurgeon–believed in the doctrine of God’s election of the believer (as outlined in Ephesians 1, as well as many other places) and God’s absolute sovereignty over salvation (as outlined in Romans 9), an altar call and an invitation to “choose” Christ, when He clearly taught us that He chooses us, would have no place in true orthodox Christian doctrine. It also had no place in the earliest expressions of Protestantism. It just was not known to the Reformers, who believed that, as illustrated in Acts 2, once the good seed, the Word of God, which is the gospel, is spread upon the hearts of men, it either takes root in good soil or falls fruitless upon various infertile surfaces, determined by God alone. As it always was, the gospel needs no repackaging or emotional invitations, and it is still the power of God unto salvation (Romans 1:6).
  2. Obviously, if the altar call is neither Scriptural nor part of orthodox Christianity, then asking Jesus into our hearts is also not orthodox Christianity, nor was it part of the earliest expressions of Protestantism. The Scriptures tell us that it is the believer that is accepted in the Beloved, which is Christ (Ephesians 1:6). It is God Who accepts the believer in Christ, not the other way around. Again, the Lord Jesus said that it is He Who does the choosing, not us.
  3. Sadly, what you have witnessed of Scripture interpretation as a reflection upon Protestantism in your Pentecostal experience is very true. Many who call themselves Protestant do not understand what the first Protestants died for–it was a firm foundation of doctrine built on Scripture alone. The Reformers who gave their lives for this would be horrified by those masquerading as Christians today–from Rick Warren’s man-centered gospel to Joel Osteen’s self-esteem and personal success gospel to Creflo Dollar’s make-me-rich gospel. These are certainly false prophets preaching a false Christ–those about whom Christ Himself warns us in Matthew 24.
  4. According to Scripture, we are to hold our “teachers” to an even higher accountability. Sadly, many in the American “Protestant” churches have taken David’s recognition that he was not to “touch not God’s anointed”–where he understands that God made King Saul king, and that he was to leave his removal from that office to God alone–and they have turned it into some sort of divine coronation of sorts of their pastors. They have forgotten that Christ told His disciples that they would not have some who lord over others, such as the heathen did, but that they would all be equals–they would all be brethren. Therefore, the idea that we are not to “touch God’s anointed” does not apply here.
May I humbly and repectfully suggest that before you paint all of Protestantism with one brush, be aware that people today who consider themselves “Protestant” do not necessarily adhere to the Scriptural doctrines the Reformers held dear–so dear they were willing to die horrific deaths rather than abandon them.

God be with you.
 
The problem really with Sola Scriptura is each
pastor have a different scriptural interpretation. and
each claimed to be inspired. The pastor who can
muster the best argument wins the day.
 
christmary4ever said:
The problem really with Sola Scriptura is each
pastor have a different scriptural interpretation. and
each claimed to be inspired. The pastor who can
muster the best argument wins the day.
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The main problem with sola scriptura is that is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ, who founded a Church for our salvation. Sola scriptura is a heretical, unscriptural rejection of that Church. The reading for the Mass today, Ezekiel 33:8, teaches us that if we don`t speak up against false teachings like sola scriptura, we will be held responsible for the souls of those who perish because of it.
 
Sola Scriptura divides protestants into thousands
of denomination. Each denomination proclaiming
itself to be right. and anyone who disagee with them
(Roman catholics) are assumed to be guilty of following human traditions .

Although they deny the infallibility of the pope.they
have no hesitation to declare there interpretation
faultless and thus embrace the principle they are
fighting against.
 
christmary4ever said:
The problem really with Sola Scriptura is each pastor have a different scriptural interpretation. and each claimed to be inspired. The pastor who can
muster the best argument wins the day./quote]

Welcome. Make sure you come back often. What you said tends to be very true.
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christmary4ever said:
The problem really with Sola Scriptura is each
pastor have a different scriptural interpretation. and
each claimed to be inspired. The pastor who can
muster the best argument wins the day.
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Well, not really. In the Baptist church, and many other protestant churches, the church members go home and check up on what he said if it sounds ‘dodgy’. and can raise issues with both him and the board of elders. if needed. We are (hopefully) generous hearted enough to make “allowances” from time to time. - a pastor is a shepherd first, with the many responsibilities and difficulties that entails, and he’s also ‘human’.

There’s also the aspect too of ‘wheat’ and ‘tares’. The pastor isn’t exempt from that, and neither is the Catholic Church.

Catholics don’t seem to have any practical belief in the personally indwelling Holy Spirit in each believer being capable of giving them a personal ‘nudge’ if what is being preached is bad theology. If it was good enough for the Bereans to check up on things for themselves, and get commended for it by Paul, then I don’t think its too much of a stretch to see a general principle there.

Its also just plain commonsense. There are so many warnings about the dangers of ‘falling away’ and ‘false teachers’ in the New Testament that you would perhaps be a little foolish to ignore them.

.
 
christmary4ever said:
Sola Scriptura divides protestants into thousands
of denomination. Each denomination proclaiming
itself to be right. and anyone who disagee with them
(Roman catholics) are assumed to be guilty of following human traditions .

Although they deny the infallibility of the pope.they
have no hesitation to declare there interpretation
faultless and thus embrace the principle they are
fighting against.
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You have hit the nail on the head - they are denying the authority of the Church and declaring themselves infallible. Anyone who disagrees with “their” interpretation (or more often, their twisting of Scripture to fit their preconceived doctrine) - anybody who disagrees with them is not “letting scripture interpret itself” and is therefore wrong.

There is no basis in scripture for sola scriptura. I don’t see how the sola scripturists reconcile this for themselves. They believe everything necessary for salvation is found in scripture, but their doctrine is not found in scripture.

Doesn’t make sense to me.
 
To Meaculpa. Herein lies the seperation of Catholocism & Protetantism. The Paganism that is rampant in your church is heresy & blasphemy to us. That is why there was a Reformation. The un -scriptural teachings of your church, ie, lack of SS, is why the Reformation happened. We are at a standstill.
 
The catholic has never declared that membership
in its church will automatically guarantee that someone will be free of sin. There are bad catholics and bad protestants. but this is not an argument against both group. Any church cannot be held accountable for the behavior of its members if they had done their best to show them the right way. People are ultimately judged by God according to their free will.

There are indeed false teachers and that’s the very reason God established an infallible church to interpret and teach the scipture so the faithful can have an assurance on what the Holy Spirit wants to communicate to them. Without a legitimate
authority everything is subject to personal experience and personal interpretation.

The Bereans were left alone by St. Paul because
they do not contradict his teachings and Paul does not contradict what scriptures teaches.

We catholics believe that the Holy Spirit can indeed
enlighten us personally in our scripture study.
He gives every christian the gift of wisdom, knowledge and understanding if we ask in
faith and humility. However the catholic church
has been commisioned by christ to infallibly interpret the scriptures and preserve it from error.

My other brother and sister christians would surely
disagree with us. They have every right to do so.

My question is in a Baptist church who ultimately
decides who’s teachings or interpretation is to
be accepted? And if their church can not guarantee that their interpretation is infallible, how can it be binding to each and every member of their church?
 
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