Protestants do not really believe in Sola Scriptura

[justasking4]

distracted;4165460]***
Originally Posted by Mea Culpa
Ah yes, let’s change the subject with more irrelevant questions.
.

distracted
That is a common tactic here at the forums… ***
:yup: I have this happen to me all the time…

 

[justasking4]

I think that Sola Scripturists intuitively realize, even if those who adhere to it deny it, that investing scripture with this authority would require that Scripture itself claim this of itself in order for it to be valid.

That is why the effort is made to insist that it is a biblical doctrine, based on what the Bible does say about itself. The SS must go to great lenghts to deny that extrabiblical doctrine is valid, because it is “too Catholic”.

Are you now saying that SS is valid which means its true?

 

[Mea_Culpa]

Are you now saying that SS is valid which means its true?

Even by its own logic, sola scriptura is a false doctrine. It isn’t taught in scripture.

 

[Mea_Culpa]

I woke up 2 years ago and accepted the fullness of the faith. At the age of 57, I converted to the Church that JESUS built which just happens to be the Catholic Church.
Me and my family had been in the “me and JESUS only” church for about 15 years.When I suggested we should examine our conscienses and accountability to GOD,my family didn’t want to hear it. My wife divorced me and the family will have nothing to do with me.
Incidently, my friends 85 year old Protestant dad
went through the RCIA with me and joined the church as well. Just goes to show you----
IT’S NEVER TOO LATE as long as you have breath.

Thank you for your beautiful witness. That must have really taken a lot of courage and integrity to follow the truth at great personal sacrifice.

 

[historyb]

I think that Sola Scripturists intuitively realize, even if those who adhere to it deny it, that investing scripture with this authority would require that Scripture itself claim this of itself in order for it to be valid.

Nope, that is where Catholics and Protestant part. Catholics think Scripture have to claim it, yet they have no problem when Protestant advocate the Trinity not found directly in Scripture, but indirectly. The same way that we know that Scripture is Authority it is the inspired, inerrant Word of God something nothing else in the Catholic Church can’t claim.

Rather to prove the Catholic Church should have the authority one has to prove it’s inspired by God and inerrant, and this is doubly hard since Catholics admit to their being error and bad Popes therein in tines past.

 

[PerryJ]

Nope, that is where Catholics and Protestant part. Catholics think Scripture have to claim it, yet they have no problem when Protestant advocate the Trinity not found directly in Scripture, but indirectly. The same way that we know that Scripture is Authority it is the inspired, inerrant Word of God something nothing else in the Catholic Church can’t claim.

Rather to prove the Catholic Church should have the authority one has to prove it’s inspired by God and inerrant, and this is doubly hard since Catholics admit to their being error and bad Popes therein in tines past.

You misunderstand Papal Infalliblity. It is because men and Popes fail that is is required. Popes have to fail. All men are born with original sin. Not just some, all men. This means that the only way for Christ teachings to be protected is by him. Christ protects our teachings from man and even Popes.

 

[Mea_Culpa]

Nope, that is where Catholics and Protestant part. Catholics think Scripture have to claim it, yet they have no problem when Protestant advocate the Trinity not found directly in Scripture, but indirectly. The same way that we know that Scripture is Authority it is the inspired, inerrant Word of God something nothing else in the Catholic Church can’t claim.

Rather to prove the Catholic Church should have the authority one has to prove it’s inspired by God and inerrant, and this is doubly hard since Catholics admit to their being error and bad Popes therein in tines past.

You are incorrect. The Catholic Church affirms that Sacred Scripture is the inspired, inerrant word of God.

Holy Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church are not inspired, but they do have the charism of being infallible. This charism is through the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said, “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.” (John 16:13)

He also said, “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.” (John 14:26)

Jesus also said, “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 16:18-19)

Jesus gave a guarantee that the Catholic Church could not teach error in faith and morals. That is the charism of infallibility. The Catholic Church’s authority does not stem from decrees of man - it is divinely inspired. Jesus founded the Church and guaranteed that the Holy Spirit would lead it into all truth. This is why the Catholic Church recognizes that Sacred Scripture, Holy Tradition, and the Magisterium of the Church are the three inter-related rules of faith and morals.

Sola scripturists deny what Jesus said in Holy Scripture. They deny the authority of the Church. They hold up a false doctrine that is not taught in scripture (what they claim is the only (sola) rule of faith and morals).

Catholics don’t believe in sola scriptura, but we can show where the authority of the Church derives from using scripture. Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church are valid authorities because they were instituted by Jesus Christ and are protected by the Holy Spirit from teaching error in faith and morals.

Yes, there have been bad Popes, and even with that, the Catholic Church has never taught error in faith and morals. That in and of itself is a miracle and could only be possible through the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Protestant sects don’t have the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which is why they are in the mess they are in today. St. Paul gave us a description of the state of protestantism today when he said, “And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct.” (Romans 1:28)

All the sola scripturists have to do to change my mind is show where in Holy Scripture sola scriptura is plainly taught.

 

[historyb]

You misunderstand Papal Infallibility. It is because men and Popes fail that is is required. Popes have to fail. All men are born with original sin. Not just some, all men. This means that the only way for Christ teachings to be protected is by him. Christ protects our teachings from man and even Popes.

It is interesting you say all man, of course that’s another thread.

Yes Christ does, Scriptures even say God’s Word will not return void, but curiously not one word about one man being infallible or in control of Christ Church.

 

[Mea_Culpa]

It is interesting you say all man, of course that’s another thread.

Yes Christ does, Scriptures even say God’s Word will not return void, but curiously not one word about one man being infallible or in control of Christ Church.

Yet another attempt to change the subject. Please show where sola scriptura is plainly taught in the Bible.

 

[historyb]

You are incorrect. The Catholic Church affirms that Sacred Scripture is the inspired, inerrant word of God.

Never said they didn’t

Holy Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church are not inspired, but they do have the charism of being infallible. This charism is through the Holy Spirit.

So wheres it say that.

Jesus said, “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.” (John 16:13)

He also said, “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.” (John 14:26)

Yep, that’s what the HS does

Jesus also said, “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 16:18-19)/quote]

It was not Peter but his profession that was the rock theat Christ built on and the gates of Hell will not prevail.
Mea Culpa;4166562:

Jesus gave a guarantee that the Catholic Church could not teach error in faith and morals. That is the charism of infallibility. The Catholic Church’s authority does not stem from decrees of man - it is divinely inspired. Jesus founded the Church and guaranteed that the Holy Spirit would lead it into all truth. This is why the Catholic Church recognizes that Sacred Scripture, Holy Tradition, and the Magisterium of the Church are the three inter-related rules of faith and morals.

He didn’t found a building or institution.

Sola scripturists deny what Jesus said in Holy Scripture. They deny the authority of the Church. They hold up a false doctrine that is not taught in scripture (what they claim is the only (sola) rule of faith and morals).

Nope, we deny authority where it’s not given

Catholics don’t believe in sola scriptura, but we can show where the authority of the Church derives from using scripture. Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church are valid authorities because they were instituted by Jesus Christ and are protected by the Holy Spirit from teaching error in faith and morals.

Not really

Yes, there have been bad Popes, and even with that, the Catholic Church has never taught error in faith and morals. That in and of itself is a miracle and could only be possible through the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Protestant sects don’t have the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which is why they are in the mess they are in today. St. Paul gave us a description of the state of protestantism today when he said, “And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct.” (Romans 1:28)

All the sola scripturists have to do to change my mind is show where in Holy Scripture sola scriptura is plainly taught.

So show me where the trinity is plainly taught, show where all those doctrines of Mary are taught, show me where we have to use Traditions that aren’t written down.

Like the trinity Sola Scriptura is not plainly taught, but alluded to. It’s a red herring for Catholics to always say show us when they rally can’t shore up there own doctrines with Scripture through just a cursory reading.

 

[historyb]

Yet another attempt to change the subject. Please show where sola scriptura is plainly taught in the Bible.

Nope, I get tired of Catholic games and I done it. It’s time for you to put up or shut up where are all your doctrines in Scripture. Prove them, prove Mariaism and that she was sinless from Scripture, prove infallibility from Scripture, prove countless of your other doctrines.

I’ll wait.

 

[PerryJ]

It is interesting you say all man, of course that’s another thread.

Yes Christ does, Scriptures even say God’s Word will not return void, but curiously not one word about one man being infallible or in control of Christ Church.

Again, you are not understanding the Pope is a sinner. Christ guides our teaching not a man.

As far as one person being in control of the Church it is in the Bible. Very clearly. The Bible shows Peter taking control of the Church and it shows succession.

That is more than SS can show. SS can’t even provide support for itself. Tell us where in the Bible the Bible state that SS is true. If you truly believe in the Bible show us where SS is in the Bible.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Nope, I get tired of Catholic games and I done it. It’s time for you to put up or shut up where are all your doctrines in Scripture. Prove them, prove Mariaism and that she was sinless from Scripture, prove infallibility from Scripture, prove countless of your other doctrines.

I’ll wait.

On this thread of over 700 posts you need to answer the OP. Then if you want to expand into another issue start another thread.

No one has yep to provide any scripture of Sola Scriptura. We are still waiting.

 

[Mea_Culpa]

Nope, I get tired of Catholic games and I done it. It’s time for you to put up or shut up where are all your doctrines in Scripture. Prove them, prove Mariaism and that she was sinless from Scripture, prove infallibility from Scripture, prove countless of your other doctrines.

I’ll wait.

This thread is about sola scriptura. Your desperate attempt to change the subject is obviously because you can’t show where sola scriptura is taught in the Bible.

You say you are Catholic - you really should talk to a priest or spiritual director. You’ve obviously come under the influence of some very dangerous lies.

 

[PerryJ]

Nope, I get tired of Catholic games and I done it. It’s time for you to put up or shut up where are all your doctrines in Scripture. Prove them, prove Mariaism and that she was sinless from Scripture, prove infallibility from Scripture, prove countless of your other doctrines.

I’ll wait.

I just posted about Mary on Hyper Dulia. You can go look there for some proof of the IC.

It is not Catholic games. If you look at other threads we can prove via scripture papal infallibility. You can not prove your authority. This is not a game. Prove your theory to be true. Prove that Sola Scriptura is Biblical. We can prove our points. You can search other threads and find our support for Marian doctrines.

 

[guanophore]

I woke up 2 years ago and accepted the fullness of the faith. At the age of 57, I converted to the Church that JESUS built which just happens to be the Catholic Church.
Me and my family had been in the “me and JESUS only” church for about 15 years.When I suggested we should examine our conscienses and accountability to GOD,my family didn’t want to hear it. My wife divorced me and the family will have nothing to do with me.
Incidently, my friends 85 year old Protestant dad
went through the RCIA with me and joined the church as well. Just goes to show you----
IT’S NEVER TOO LATE as long as you have breath.

I am sorry that your people were so anti-Catholic that you lost yoru family. However, God will honor your sacrifice. Welcome home!

 

[guanophore]

Are you now saying that SS is valid which means its true?

No, I am saying that it is a puzzle why SS get such in an uproar because Catholics go “far beyond what the Scriptures teach” in the area of doctrine, yet will adopt as a rule a principle that is not found in Scripture.

Nope, that is where Catholics and Protestant part.

It is, because Catholics accept a priori that not everything is found in Scripture.

Catholics think Scripture have to claim it, yet they have no problem when Protestant advocate the Trinity not found directly in Scripture, but indirectly.

Yes, but not because we believe everything is to be found in Scripture. But because of the nature of the claim. If the Scriptures were intended to be the ultimate rule of faith for the believer, then surely they would say this about themselves. SInce they do not, then it is a man-made tradition.

What is so bad about that? Catholics have no problem with man-made traditions! we like candles, insense, fancy robes, etc, etc. The NT does not mandate any of these!

The same way that we know that Scripture is Authority it is the inspired, inerrant Word of God something nothing else in the Catholic Church can’t claim.

Authority is a quality belonging to people, not text. Text cannot function as authority, because it does not have decision making ability. Other than this, I cannot respond to your sentence because I don’t understand what you are saying.

Rather to prove the Catholic Church should have the authority one has to prove it’s inspired by God and inerrant, and this is doubly hard since Catholics admit to their being error and bad Popes therein in tines past.

Maybe this sheds light on what you were trying to say above?

What do you think happened when Jesus breathed on the Apostles? Do you believe Jesus is God? How is the Church He founded and authorized not “God - Breathed”?

Yes, there have been many Catholics who have erred badly over the centuries. This does not invalidate the Divine aspects of the Church that make her infallible. That is like saying that nothing Jesus taught was authentic, because Judas betrayed HIm.

Nope, I get tired of Catholic games and I done it. It’s time for you to put up or shut up where are all your doctrines in Scripture. Prove them, prove Mariaism and that she was sinless from Scripture, prove infallibility from Scripture, prove countless of your other doctrines.

I’ll wait.

Well, these are issues for another thread. DOn’t derail the topic. It is against the forum rules. The Catholic Church never claimed all her doctrines are in scripture. Our faith is founded upon a person, Jesus, not on a text, however Sacred.

You have NOT shown where SS is found in scripture. Be honest! It is not there. Why is that a problem?

 

[justasking4]

Yet another attempt to change the subject. Please show where sola scriptura is plainly taught in the Bible.

I have yet to see your defintion of SS. Can you provide one so we can if that defintion fits?

 

[justasking4]

Even by its own logic, sola scriptura is a false doctrine. It isn’t taught in scripture.

Do we find in the Scriptures that they are inspired-inerrant? Do the Scriptures themselves testify to this?

 

[historyb]

This thread is about sola scriptura. Your desperate attempt to change the subject is obviously because you can’t show where sola scriptura is taught in the Bible.

You say you are Catholic - you really should talk to a priest or spiritual director. You’ve obviously come under the influence of some very dangerous lies.

Not anymore