Protestants do not really believe in Sola Scriptura

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I know you don’t like the word “context” but if you understood what it means you would see how it applies to the discussion. Keep in mind that these are some kind of professional debates where it is mandated to stay very specific on the topic. There is a lot of leeway on the threads that i’m on.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask http://forums.catholic-questions.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4085&d=1221516715
I have a question - where is sola scriptura taught in the Bible?

The Catholic Church teaches to read the Bible in context. As for the rest of what you’re saying - it doesn’t even make sense. Is your smilie someone trying to decipher your nonsensical arguments?

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4085&d=1221516715
Trying to defend the unscriptural doctrine of sola scriptura would drive anyone batty!
 
Huh??? The same could be said for you also…👍
I don’t think so, since I have done the study and I can produce authentic and authoritative Catholic sources for whatever I debate on. If I express an opinion…I say as much.
Its a major problem today as more and more Catholics interact with others especially Protestants who know the Scriptures and Catholic teachings. Catholics who look for support for their doctrines and practices have nothing to depend on but their “own private interpretations”. Even though you are a priest you have your own private interpretations since your church has never infallibly interpreted the Scriptures.
It’s only a major problem to you and others who oppose the Catholic faith, who sorely wish it was.

Alleging that Catholics have no Biblical basis for beliefs is ridiculous to begin with once I open that Catechism and we begin to look at the footnotes where scriptures and historical sources are cited. It basically buries any other source for teachings for Christianity.

Tell me JA4…do you really believe that someone needs to sit down and definitively interpret every last verse of the Bible?
Am i wrong in say this?
I think so. Who would you suggest should do this for all you N-Cs? C’mon. Who do you think should undertake that task? Will they be acceptable to the rest of the myriad of n-C communities?
There are many places to go for this. Sola Scriptura is one.
Sorry, but that is not possible since SS is an unscriptural error in itself.

Got any other sources to offer?
Don’t you find it amazing that we believe in the inspiration and inerrancy of Scripture, Christ died for our sins and rose again, and salvation is found in Christ alone to name a few? 👍
Who is this “we” that you refer to? I’d say you need to move from partial to the fullness of truth.
Not so. This is where most Catholics learn about the Scriptures and yet are they?
Probably, and yet in general they come away with a better knowledge of scripture, (largely sans the chapter and verse capacity).
I suspect you haven’t heard some excellent Protestant pastors exergete the Scriptures. If you are i can direct you to a few podcast if you are interested.
Oh I know that there are some few. No thanks, I hear some on the radio and find myself correcting them as they talk. It’s just my way of playing a kind of SS “game” that no one else ever hears. (Talk about being bored while driving.) :rolleyes:
If you have consulted any who might they be?
Well, I gave away my Strong’s and although I have several n-C Bibles…like I said I don’t use them very much. I spent over 30 years as an n-C. I don’t consult n-Cs anymore though, and in fact I’m working on an article refuting A.A. Hodge’s article on this very doctrine.
What do you think though? Do you think C
atholics have a good grasp of the Scriptures and church doctrines? In general? At least as well as their n-C counterparts and steadily improving all the time, which is as it should be. Part of that is because of this site here as well as quite a few other Catholic ones but also even more as our Pope speaks out on day to day issues that most n-Cs and their leaders remain silent on.
How is this specious of me if i’m stating something that i observe?
It is when (again) you attempt to hold the Catholics to a higher standard that you and your own faith community generally cannot measure up to. I taught n-Cs in Sunday Schools and Bible studies, and the complacency and ignorance were a constant distress. So, if personal observation is going to be an accepted point here then I submit that you really don’t wanna go there.
i do hold the Catholic church up to a higher standard because of the claims it makes and attacks it makes on Protestant believers.
The claims are correct both Biblical and historically accurate. None of the modern post reformation step children can make that claim with any credibility and the errors of SS are so pervasive that in spite of their lip service to it, in the end they actually practice some form of authoritative interpretation based upon whoever their favorite n-C preachers and teachers are.
That may be true of some but not me. I know what Sola Scriptura is and how it works.
Cool! In that case by all means enlighten me.
This is not true. Take the OT. That predates the church. Secondly, God is the author of Scripture not the church. You have erred on these 2 points.
See…here you are wrong again.

The Jewish scriptures are part of the church and came from the church in the same sense that the OT saints are also part of the Body of Christ, or else will you now tell us that those many believers and faithful are yet unsaved?

God has authored nothing at all. The Church, both those mentioned above from the OT, and the New Testament believers actually authored the scriptures by the God breathed inspiration of the Holy Spirit. I’m afraid that you are the one who is error there.
They are not the sole authority perse but they are the sole ultimate authority because they alone are inspired-inerrant. There is no other authority on earth that can make that claim and support it.
Yet the modern proponents of SS come away with gross errors in their doctrines that devolve directly from SS to begin with.

Your comment certainly upholds the premise of this thread, that the vast majority of those who preach SS do not really believe or practice it.
 
It’s obvious you really don’t have any way of defending sola scriptura. Your responses are either “This is wrong,” “What is the definition of sola scriptura?” or “Give me a list of Catholic Traditions.” I could get a more intelligent discussion by talking to a mynah bird. You’ve probably got those three responses written on slips of paper and randomly pick them out to see how you should respond to different arguments.
:rotfl:
Why not show us where sola scriptura is taught in the Bible?
This was my thought…

just wasn’t sure i had read enough posts to be able to say it… Apparently… you have… and/or… one doesn’t NEEd to read so many of them… 😃 since, as you imply, they all sound about the same…
 
It’s true, few Protestants actually practice sola scriptura. The vast majority simply go along with their pastor’s viewpoints, or the teaching of some persuasive preacher. They rarely form their theological opinions by scripture alone.

Now and then one of them does read scripture alone and comes up with his own ideas, teaches them and gets a following, and a new man-made denomination is born.
Lovely, isn’t it? :rolleyes:

that was one reason John Wayne didn’t accept “organized religion”… until the end when he converted to Catholicism… He said there were too mnay different Christian churches… How was one to know which was the right one??

That is the legacy of Luther… CONFUSION … total lack of certainty in matters that are of the utmost importance… our salvation…
 
. All I have done is try to lead by Scripture, not the “churches” ideas or mine. There is a great divide in the ideas of how to receive truth. SS only or Scripture, church & tradition, which by the way no one has been able to show what that tradition is spoken about in Scripture. May the Spirit guide us into the Truth as it is in our Savior.
only problem is… there are various “spirits”… and not all of them are exactly “holy”… sometimes we are, unwittingly, guided by our own selfish desires and what we want to believe… rather than truth…

When i am out in the world… i have a totally different 'thing" with Jesus than i do w hen i am in his Presence in t he Church. I try always to remember what He has taught me while in His presence… if there is a conflict between that and what i “learn” when not in His Presecen… and there always is…

I hope/pray you spend time with Jesus There… You will nver really know Jesus until you do that… (or yourself…)
 
Church Militant;4181809]
This is not true. Take the OT. That predates the church. Secondly, God is the author of Scripture not the church. You have erred on these 2 points.
Church Militant
See…here you are wrong again.
The Jewish scriptures are part of the church and came from the church in the same sense that the OT saints are also part of the Body of Christ,
The church had nothing to do with the formation of the OT Scriptures. Were talking talking about the OT itself and not the status of OT people. Different subject.
or else will you now tell us that those many believers and faithful are yet unsaved?
Off topic.
God has authored nothing at all. The Church, both those mentioned above from the OT, and the New Testament believers actually authored the scriptures by the God breathed inspiration of the Holy Spirit. I’m afraid that you are the one who is error there.
If men are the authors of the Scriptures then what am i to make of 2 Peter 1:20-21?
 
The church had nothing to do with the formation of the OT Scriptures. Were talking talking about the OT itself and not the status of OT people. Different subject.
No… it is not.

I am pointing out the fallacy of your statements because you apparently hold that the writers of the Old Testament were not members of the Body of Christ and therefore, (by following your own fallacious logic) were not inspired by the same Holy Spirit as the New Testament writers, which would (by that same logic) mean that they were not saved.
Off topic.
As I just showed…it is not.
If men are the authors of the Scriptures then what am i to make of 2 Peter 1:20-21?
Which reads, 20 Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. 21 For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost. Based upon the fallacious logic you have thus far displayed, I’d have to ask you to respond to that, since that is my whole point. 🤷
 
Why is this thread continuing without an answer to the various questions of “What is the definition of SS?” and “Where is SS found in the bible?”

Those questions are the important ones on the table for this thread.

Sola scriptura is in debate here, so we need to get an exact definition (there’s one located on Home area) and, more importantly, where SS is found in the Bible.

Sola scriptura is defined as “scripture alone.” What does this mean? Scripture alone is the source of Christianity/teaching/salvation. Correct or not so correct?

Furthermore, the need to find the doctrine of sola scriptura in the Bible is necessary, because if it is not found in the Bible, it is self refuting.

So…
step one: Define sola scriptura and agree upon said definition
step two: Locate sola scriptura’s Biblical source

(btw, Church Militant is a very good debater. I’m impressed. I hope I can be as knowledgable or moreso than you some day 🙂 )
 
The church had nothing to do with the formation of the OT Scriptures. Were talking talking about the OT itself and not the status of OT people. Different subject.
How do you come to this conclusion? The Pharisees and the Saducees had two different OT set of books.

The Church defined the OT based upon the books Christ used. Of course Protestant’s do not follow Christ and use the books of the Bible he used. This is proven historically via the Dead Sea and Ben Sira Scrolls. It is also proven by the 102 cross references between the NT and the DCs. Funny how people that believe in SS do not even use the books of the OT that Christ used. This is historical fact.

If everything you base your religion on is SS why do you chose not to use the books Christ used?
 
Furthermore, the need to find the doctrine of sola scriptura in the Bible is necessary, because if it is not found in the Bible, it is self refuting.
This question has been posed many times to the SS. They change the subject because they know it is not in the Bible.

Concerning the defintion there are two basic definitions. First “Bible only” this means one can only use the Bible. The second defintion is that one can use other sources; however, they have to be compared to scripture and not deviate from scripture. Either definition is not in the Bible. Neither is correct on many levels.

Welcome to the CAF!
 
How do you come to this conclusion? The Pharisees and the Saducees had two different OT set of books.

The Church defined the OT based upon the books Christ used. Of course Protestant’s do not follow Christ and use the books of the Bible he used. This is proven historically via the Dead Sea and Ben Sira Scrolls. It is also proven by the 102 cross references between the NT and the DCs. Funny how people that believe in SS do not even use the books of the OT that Christ used. This is historical fact.

If everything you base your religion on is SS why do you chose not to use the books Christ used?
Where do we see direct quotes by Christ for the Deutro canonical books of the OT?
 
Where do we see direct quotes by Christ for the Deutro canonical books of the OT?
Did you ignore the part that showed your post wrong. The OT wasn’t defined as you stated. Historically again your post is wrong.

Here is proof from your very own sources: the early Protestant Bibles not only publish the DC with them they had cross references in them to these books. The early King James Bible actually had 102 cross references between the DC and the Old Testament. Later additions of the King James removed the references. Here is a short list of several cross references: Mathew 6:14-15 and Sirach 7:14, Mathew 27:43 - Wisdom 2:15-16, Luke 6:31 and Tobit 4:15, Luke 14:13 and Tobit 4:7, John 10:22 - 1 MacCabees 4:59, Romans 9:20-22 and Wisdom 12:12, 15:7, 12:20, Romans 11:34 - Wisdom 9:13, 2 Corinthians 9:7 and Sirach 35:9, Hebrew 1:3 and Wisdom 7;26, Hewbrew 11:35 and 2 MacCabees 7:7. All of these cross references existed in early Protestant Bibles.

If you use the theory that they need cross reference than the Protestants would have to throw out: Judges, Ruth, Ezra, Nehemiah, Obadiah, Nahum Esther, The Song of Songs, and Ecclesiastes. None of these receive even one single New Testament citation.

It doesn’t bother you that you ignore Christ’s books of the Bible?

Have you researched the historical fact that Luther threw the DC books out because he was losing a debate to Eck in Leipzig. Have you researched yet that the Dead Sea scrolls have proved that these books were used during Christ lifetime? If you are following Christ are you going to verify what I state is correct and follow him? Prove me wrong, research what I have stated.
 
PerryJ;4183278]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Where do we see direct quotes by Christ for the Deutro canonical books of the OT?
PerryJ
Did you ignore the part that showed your post wrong. The OT wasn’t defined as you stated. Historically again your post is wrong.
Are you saying that the Jews at the time of Christ did not know what their sacred inspired books were?
Here is proof from your very own sources: the early Protestant Bibles not only publish the DC with them they had cross references in them to these books. The early King James Bible actually had 102 cross references between the DC and the Old Testament. Later additions of the King James removed the references. Here is a short list of several cross references: Mathew 6:14-15 and Sirach 7:14, Mathew 27:43 - Wisdom 2:15-16, Luke 6:31 and Tobit 4:15, Luke 14:13 and Tobit 4:7, John 10:22 - 1 MacCabees 4:59, Romans 9:20-22 and Wisdom 12:12, 15:7, 12:20, Romans 11:34 - Wisdom 9:13, 2 Corinthians 9:7 and Sirach 35:9, Hebrew 1:3 and Wisdom 7;26, Hewbrew 11:35 and 2 MacCabees 7:7. All of these cross references existed in early Protestant Bibles.
I looked up a couple of the comparisons above to see if these DC’s are directly quoted in the NT. Here is what i found:
Matthew 6:14-15

14 “For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 “But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

compared with

Sirach 7:14
Thrust not yourself into the deliberations of princes, and repeat not the words of your prayer.

Luke 6:31
31 “Treat others the same way you want them to treat you.

compared with

Tobit 4:15
15 Do to no one what you yourself dislike. Do not drink wine till you become drunk, nor let drunkenness accompany you on your way.

Its not even close to a direct quote. Maybe the others are better examples.
If you use the theory that they need cross reference than the Protestants would have to throw out: Judges, Ruth, Ezra, Nehemiah, Obadiah, Nahum Esther, The Song of Songs, and Ecclesiastes. None of these receive even one single New Testament citation.
That may be true but the Jews certainly considered these books Scripture.
It doesn’t bother you that you ignore Christ’s books of the Bible?
So far there are no direct quotes of the DC in the NT. Secondly, the Jews did not consider the DC’s Scripture. Thirdly it took the Catholic church to elevate these DC"s to full canonical status 1500 years to do so at Trent.
Have you researched the historical fact that Luther threw the DC books out because he was losing a debate to Eck in Leipzig. Have you researched yet that the Dead Sea scrolls have proved that these books were used during Christ lifetime? If you are following Christ are you going to verify what I state is correct and follow him? Prove me wrong, research what I have stated.
This is beyond the scope of this thread. There is enough evidence not only that the Jews did not consider these books inspired or that the NT never quotes directly from these books but also the Catholic church itself for centuries did not recognize these books as fully canonical for centuries.
 
Lovely, isn’t it? :rolleyes:

that was one reason John Wayne didn’t accept “organized religion”… until the end when he converted to Catholicism… He said there were too mnay different Christian churches… How was one to know which was the right one??

That is the legacy of Luther… CONFUSION … total lack of certainty in matters that are of the utmost importance… our salvation…
I didn’t realize John Wayne had converted. I know Bob Hope did before he died, and so did Oscar Wilde!

That’s sure the truth, the legacy of Luther is confusion, and never any certainty as to what to believe and what is important. An example is Dr Murray Harris, a professor at a bible college and on the committee of the NIV translation. Anyway, he has written a book From Grave to Glory which questions the historical belief that Jesus rose bodily from the grave, and that we will be raised bodily too. The idea that Jesus didn’t raise bodily, but raised as some sort of spirit, or phantom! And us too! Where is evangelicalism going to? What is to stop these heretical ideas? They can’t be stopped within Protestantism, by the very nature of Protestantism. Fundamentalists try to stop these things, by their list of the Fundamentals, but theirs is just a rear-guard action, because as Protestants they have no authoritative basis to deny anything that anybody comes up with.
 
I didn’t realize John Wayne had converted. I know Bob Hope did before he died, and so did Oscar Wilde!
yea… i just finished reading a couple books about J. Wayne… VERY interesting. He was a workaholic but other than that, a great guy (voted the way i do, too 🙂 )… It was amazing to see how much alike he and I are (were)… (that probably sounds like bragging but just making the point that… well, for one: i didn’t know he was so conservative, politically 🙂 ) …
. Anyway, he has written a book From Grave to Glory which questions the historical belief that Jesus rose bodily from the grave, and that we will be raised bodily too. The idea that Jesus didn’t raise bodily, but raised as some sort of spirit, or phantom! And us too! Where is evangelicalism going to? What is to stop these heretical ideas? They can’t be stopped within Protestantism, by the very nature of Protestantism. Fundamentalists try to stop these things, by their list of the Fundamentals, but theirs is just a rear-guard action, because as Protestants they have no authoritative basis to deny anything that anybody comes up with.
Good point… that’s where all the weird ideas come from - Protestants… who, because they have no certainty… no ultimate authority (pope/ magesterium)… speculate about just about everything… and muddle things up worse than ever… I used to think that some good has come from Protestantism… and i suppose that is true… but for the most part… people are just getting wilder and wilder… in their lifestyles, their beliefs… &, as you know, that kind of lawlessness can lead to Hell…

Anyway… i don’t see how anyone can believe that Jesus didn’t rise bodily.

If he did NOT… Where is (was) his body or what would be left of it ??? The Church collects relics like bones, etc… from those it believes died as a saint (or know that they did [martyrs])… For the Church not to have at least the actual bones of Christ himself…

the whole idea is absurd… and the more i think about it, the more it discredits Christianity in general, not just Catholicism…

But that’s the way the devil works… :rolleyes:
 
Are you saying that the Jews at the time of Christ did not know what their sacred inspired books were?

I looked up a couple of the comparisons above to see if these DC’s are directly quoted in the NT. Here is what i found:
Matthew 6:14-15

14 “For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 “But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

compared with

Sirach 7:14
Thrust not yourself into the deliberations of princes, and repeat not the words of your prayer.

Luke 6:31
31 “Treat others the same way you want them to treat you.

compared with

Tobit 4:15
15 Do to no one what you yourself dislike. Do not drink wine till you become drunk, nor let drunkenness accompany you on your way.

Its not even close to a direct quote. Maybe the others are better examples.

That may be true but the Jews certainly considered these books Scripture.

So far there are no direct quotes of the DC in the NT. Secondly, the Jews did not consider the DC’s Scripture. Thirdly it took the Catholic church to elevate these DC"s to full canonical status 1500 years to do so at Trent.

This is beyond the scope of this thread. There is enough evidence not only that the Jews did not consider these books inspired or that the NT never quotes directly from these books but also the Catholic church itself for centuries did not recognize these books as fully canonical for centuries.
First you are using your translations. I will bring in correct translations. Of course if they are not relevant why would the earliest Protestant books all contain them as cross references. Maybe you should get a new Bible?

Second it appears that you continue to refuse to investigate to learn. The Pharisees and the Saducees had different sets of books for the OT. Go on the web it is a historical fact that can not be disputed.

Third where did you get the idea the Jews had a defined book. Their first attempt to define a canon was at jebnah in 90 and they then refuted all NT books. This is easily found on the web.

Concerning the books you believe that the Jewish people thought were scripture exactly how did you come up with this thought? It is not historically accurate.

I struggle with how you make up ideas without any research. Again why do you make no effort to find out the truth about the Bible? You place your faith on the Bible; but, make no effort to understand it. Your statements above are similar to stating that the world is flat. I am not exaggerating. That is how far off you are on knowing the source of what you hold as infallible. The items I have posted are not hard to verifiy. Spend half and hour and find out for your self.
 
I struggle with how you make up ideas without any research. Again why do you make no effort to find out the truth about the Bible? You place your faith on the Bible; but, make no effort to understand it. Your statements above are similar to stating that the world is flat. I am not exaggerating. That is how far off you are on knowing the source of what you hold as infallible. The items I have posted are not hard to verifiy. Spend half and hour and find out for your self.
Really, the debate in this thread is over. ja4 has acknowledged that sola scriptura is not taught in the Bible, that it is a man-made extra-Biblical doctrine.

He tries to tap-dance around this by saying that his version of sola scriptura (pseudo sola scriptura) says that the Bible is the ultimate rule of faith, but other rules such are also valid if they don’t contradict the Bible (in other words, he takes the sola out of sola scriptura).

According to his twisted logic, his version of sola scriptura (pseudo sola scriptura) is one of these non-Biblical doctrines that can be accepted (even though it does contradict scripture).

So, the proposition “Protestants do not really believe in Sola Scriptura” has been shown to be true. If protestants believed in sola scriptura, they would be able to show where sola scriptura is taught in the Bible. If sola scriptura is an unscriptural doctrine (which it in fact is), it is self-refuting.

The way they try to get around this is redefining sola scriptura so that unscriptural, man-made traditions like sola scriptura can also be rules of faith. They take the “sola” out of sola scriptura - therefore they don’t believe in sola scriptura at all.

Since they have no way to defend this pseudo sola scriptura, they rely on trying to change the subject to divert attention away from the fact that sola scriptura is an unscriptural, man-made, false doctrine. ja4 is a good example of this. He has brought up papal infallibility, the authority of the Church, transsubstantiation, Mary, Joan of Arc, Galileo, the Inquisition, listing Catholic Traditions, deuterocanonical books of the Bible, whether or not Jesus read the Septuaguint, etc. etc.

ja4’s other strategy is to just ignore arguments he (or they, as it seems to be a group effort) can’t refute. Numerous passages about Jesus establishing the Church, sending the Holy Spirit to guide it into all truth, giving the keys to the kingdom, etc. have been used to show that Jesus didn’t intend anything like “sola scriptura” - if He had, he wouldn’t have established His Church and given it the power to bind and loose. These passages are all either ignored or dismissed by saying “You have misinterpreted this.”

In other words, ja4 wants to stand off to the side and throw stones at Catholic doctrine and history. This is supposed to somehow prove that pseudo sola scriptura is correct. He hasn’t advanced any arguments as to why sola scriptura is the doctrine Christ wanted us to follow for our salvation.

He’s like a yappy little dog snapping at the Church’s ankles (or maybe a serpent striking at our heel?) It’s not really a threat, but it is annoying.
 
Mea Culpa;4185112]Really, the debate in this thread is over. ja4 has acknowledged that sola scriptura is not taught in the Bible, that it is a man-made extra-Biblical doctrine.
Not so. Even though the doctrine stated as such is spelled out specifically in the Scriptures it still does not change the fact that the Scriptures alone are inspired-inerrant.
He tries to tap-dance around this by saying that his version of sola scriptura (pseudo sola scriptura) says that the Bible is the ultimate rule of faith, but other rules such are also valid if they don’t contradict the Bible (in other words, he takes the sola out of sola scriptura).
It is true the Scriptures alone are the ultimate rule of faith because they alone are inspired-inerrant. Take the words of Jesus for example. His words carry more weight than any teacher outside the Scriptures. If any teacher contradicts His teachings or teaches something not taught by Him it is not binding or is to be rejected.
According to his twisted logic, his version of sola scriptura (pseudo sola scriptura) is one of these non-Biblical doctrines that can be accepted (even though it does contradict scripture).
So, the proposition “Protestants do not really believe in Sola Scriptura” has been shown to be true. If protestants believed in sola scriptura, they would be able to show where sola scriptura is taught in the Bible. If sola scriptura is an unscriptural doctrine (which it in fact is), it is self-refuting.
I have already challenged you to show why it is necessary for Sola Scriptura to be stated as such in the Scriptures and i don’t remember you answering that. 🤷
The way they try to get around this is redefining sola scriptura so that unscriptural, man-made traditions like sola scriptura can also be rules of faith. They take the “sola” out of sola scriptura - therefore they don’t believe in sola scriptura at all.
Since they have no way to defend this pseudo sola scriptura, they rely on trying to change the subject to divert attention away from the fact that sola scriptura is an unscriptural, man-made, false doctrine. ja4 is a good example of this. He has brought up papal infallibility, the authority of the Church, transsubstantiation, Mary, Joan of Arc, Galileo, the Inquisition, listing Catholic Traditions, deuterocanonical books of the Bible, whether or not Jesus read the Septuaguint, etc. etc.
You well know these were examples that were used to show what happens to those who reject the Scriptures as the ultimate authority and where it leads. This is very dishonest of you not to acknowledge this.
ja4’s other strategy is to just ignore arguments he (or they, as it seems to be a group effort) can’t refute. Numerous passages about Jesus establishing the Church, sending the Holy Spirit to guide it into all truth, giving the keys to the kingdom, etc. have been used to show that Jesus didn’t intend anything like “sola scriptura” - if He had, he wouldn’t have established His Church and given it the power to bind and loose. These passages are all either ignored or dismissed by saying “You have misinterpreted this.”
In other words, ja4 wants to stand off to the side and throw stones at Catholic doctrine and history. This is supposed to somehow prove that pseudo sola scriptura is correct. He hasn’t advanced any arguments as to why sola scriptura is the doctrine Christ wanted us to follow for our salvation.
He’s like a yappy little dog snapping at the Church’s ankles (or maybe a serpent striking at our heel?) It’s not really a threat, but it is annoying.
View attachment 4093
 
In other words, ja4 wants to stand off to the side and throw stones at Catholic doctrine and history. This is supposed to somehow prove that pseudo sola scriptura is correct. He hasn’t advanced any arguments as to why sola scriptura is the doctrine Christ wanted us to follow for our salvation.

He’s like a yappy little dog snapping at the Church’s ankles (or maybe a serpent striking at our heel?) It’s not really a threat, but it is annoying.
thanks for this update and clarification…it really helps for those of us who don’t have time to read every single post, yet want to know what is (in a nut shell) going on…

and i guess i didn’t have to read all of them because i came to virutally the same conclusions you did…

(by the way… i despise yappy little dogs… 😃 )

**
 
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