Protestants: do you as a layman believe you can do this?

[Harpazo]

While browsing youtube, I found a video of a Methodist pastor and what looked like his deacon showing how Communion is done in Methodism. It looked similar to how it is done in the Latin Church, because that’s obviously where they got it from originally.

Anyway, I visited his website because I was curious about his beliefs regarding Communion and if they match up with the other ambiguous things I’ve heard from various Methodist ministers and laity. I was rather shocked to see on the website that he encourages lay people to consecrate their own Communion, even saying they could use hot dog buns or tortillas:bigyikes:

Regardless of what the Holy Catholic Church says on the validity of Protestant communion, what do you Protestants think of this? Is this “orthodox Methodism” for a layman to consecrate their own Communion? From what I’ve read, there is nothing in Methodism to condemn this and there is also no unified authority to condemn it either.

Here is the link: revneal.org/ Just click on the Communion section on the left and you’ll see what it says. Sort of odd to me. What would be the point of having a minister anyway, if you could just do it all yourself?

Alaha minokhoun,
Andrew

 

[Contarini]

While browsing youtube, I found a video of a Methodist pastor and what looked like his deacon showing how Communion is done in Methodism. It looked similar to how it is done in the Latin Church, because that’s obviously where they got it from originally.

Anyway, I visited his website because I was curious about his beliefs regarding Communion and if they match up with the other ambiguous things I’ve heard from various Methodist ministers and laity. I was rather shocked to see on the website that he encourages lay people to consecrate their own Communion, even saying they could use hot dog buns or tortillas:bigyikes:

Regardless of what the Holy Catholic Church says on the validity of Protestant communion, what do you Protestants think of this? Is this “orthodox Methodism” for a layman to consecrate their own Communion? From what I’ve read, there is nothing in Methodism to condemn this and there is also no unified authority to condemn it either.

Here is the link: revneal.org/ Just click on the Communion section on the left and you’ll see what it says. Sort of odd to me. What would be the point of having a minister anyway, if you could just do it all yourself?

Alaha minokhoun,
Andrew

In order to celebrate the Eucharist in the United Methodist Church, you are supposed to be an ordained elder *or *a “local pastor” (which is someone authorized to celebrate the Sacraments in the context of one particular local parish). If this pastor is teaching otherwise, he is going against United Methodist discipline.

There is indeed a united legislative authority in the UMC–it’s called General Conference and it meets every four years. It issues very detailed prescriptions for how things are to be done. However, with regard to liturgy these prescriptions are not very strictly enforced on the local level.

Edwin

 

[Harpazo]

In order to celebrate the Eucharist in the United Methodist Church, you are supposed to be an ordained elder *or *a “local pastor” (which is someone authorized to celebrate the Sacraments in the context of one particular local parish). If this pastor is teaching otherwise, he is going against United Methodist discipline.

There is indeed a united legislative authority in the UMC–it’s called General Conference and it meets every four years. It issues very detailed prescriptions for how things are to be done. However, with regard to liturgy these prescriptions are not very strictly enforced on the local level.

Edwin

This man is advocating for “Virtual Communion.” But, sadly, knowing Protestantism anything can happen and be accepted. I don’t mean to sound rude when I say that, but it’s been a growing trend for various denominations as the years roll on to get farther away from orthodoxy.

Alaha minokhoun,
Andrew

 

[O.S.Luke]

Since you consider all Protestants layman, I don’t know the point of your thread.

I don’t mean to sound rude when I say that, but it’s been a growing trend for various denominations as the years roll on to get farther away from orthodoxy.

When someone says, “I don’t mean to sound… but…” they have already given themselves permission to be whatever they sound.

Just an observation. Just say it, Andrew, without the preface. It’s a Catholic site anyway.

What’s he’s doing is against the Book of Discipline. I believe Catholics practicing birth control is against Canon Law. Protestants have no monopoly on drifting from orthodoxy.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**I found it rather odd to see a Methodixt minister wearing a chasuble.

In the one Eucharistic prayer, it would seem to me (and I’m only giving an opnion) that he attended to accomplish the mystery of the Eucharist as it’s traditionally understood.

But I also read from his words the following:**

---

United Methodists are part of the catholic tradition in the Church which teaches that the sacraments are means of grace, not just ordinances, and that when one partakes of the elements in Holy Communion we affirm that God’s grace is communicated to the believer. In the sacramental approach it is believed that the grace of Jesus Christ falls directly upon the elements of bread and wine, and then from the elements to the believer when the believer eats and drinks them with faith. The grace which is brought with it is the manifestation of the Real Presence of Jesus, dwelling in our hearts by God’s grace acting through faith (Ephesians 3:17).

As a means of grace, Holy Communion is not our action but God’s action; it is not our act of faith that is in focus here, it is God’s act of giving us the divine presence of Jesus. Through the sacrament of Holy Communion we are re-membered to the Body of Christ, we are given the wonderful, life transforming grace of our Savior which makes the Christian life possible.

United Methodists believe that Holy Communion is a Sacrament, a means of grace, where by the Real Presence of Jesus is communicated to us and, by faith, comes to dwell in us. This is what we believe.

---

**So VERY close–so ALMOST THERE… and yet so far!

**

 

[bklynbrat]

Anyway, I visited his website because I was curious about his beliefs regarding Communion and if they match up with the other ambiguous things I’ve heard from various Methodist ministers and laity. I was rather shocked to see on the website that he encourages lay people to consecrate their own Communion, even saying they could use hot dog buns or tortillas:bigyikes:

Regardless of what the Holy Catholic Church says on the validity of Protestant communion, what do you Protestants think of this? Is this “orthodox Methodism” for a layman to consecrate their own Communion? From what I’ve read, there is nothing in Methodism to condemn this and there is also no unified authority to condemn it either.

Here is the link: revneal.org/ Just click on the Communion section on the left and you’ll see what it says. Sort of odd to me. What would be the point of having a minister anyway, if you could just do it all yourself?

Alaha minokhoun,
Andrew

This is not just a Methodist thing apparently. My stepsister belongs to Church of Christ. She’s involved in a riding group with other women from her church. They’re involved in riding at rodeos & such.
Anyway my dd went one time to watch & told me that they have communion before each time they perform. She told me they say some sort of prayer (dd is 11 btw), then eat saltines & grape juice. Whatever is leftover they give to the kids.

Also along these lines my MIL (Non-Catholic) told me she has friends (not sure what churches they attend) that are starting to have communion at home.

So maybe this is a new trend that people of any church can do now???

 

[LutheranDK]

While browsing youtube, I found a video of a Methodist pastor and what looked like his deacon showing how Communion is done in Methodism. It looked similar to how it is done in the Latin Church, because that’s obviously where they got it from originally.

Anyway, I visited his website because I was curious about his beliefs regarding Communion and if they match up with the other ambiguous things I’ve heard from various Methodist ministers and laity. I was rather shocked to see on the website that he encourages lay people to consecrate their own Communion, even saying they could use hot dog buns or tortillas:bigyikes:

Regardless of what the Holy Catholic Church says on the validity of Protestant communion, what do you Protestants think of this? Is this “orthodox Methodism” for a layman to consecrate their own Communion? From what I’ve read, there is nothing in Methodism to condemn this and there is also no unified authority to condemn it either.

Here is the link: revneal.org/ Just click on the Communion section on the left and you’ll see what it says. Sort of odd to me. What would be the point of having a minister anyway, if you could just do it all yourself?

Alaha minokhoun,
Andrew

Hot dog buns or tortillas?!?!

In my ears, this is borderline blasphemy.

And no - I do not agree with the view that anyone can consecrate Holy Communion. That talk sounds more like wanting to please the spirit of the time, than sticking to the Word of God.

One thing you have to understand, though, is that there isn’t one unified protestant view on…well, anything except the basics (salvation through faith alone, is one example…the Trinity is another). What you read on that Methodist homepage sounds more low-church that the Methodist churches I know of (admittedly, not many). There are Methodist churches that, as far as I know, take Communion very much more seriously, although I’m not sure if they teach that it is merely symbolic, or the Real Presence.

Even within my own tradition (Lutheran) there are conflicting views, not on what Communion IS (because that is one thing that unifies Lutheran churches worldwide), but on the matters the actual handling of the sacrament:
Is it ONLY unleavened bread and wine that can be used (my view)?
Is it preferable to use unleavened bread and wine, but not required for the Communion to actually be consecrated? (I am sorry to admit that I think this the most widespread amongst true Lutheran Christians in Denmark)?

Is it ONLY an ordained Pastor who can consecrate Holy Communion, or CAN laypeople also do it (even those who claim the latter believes that it is highly preferable that an ordained pastor does it…but allows for “lay consecration” ICE)?

I claim the first, but I think I am considered very High Church in my circles.
And I must admit that on some issues, I feel closer to the Roman Catholic church than the low-church Lutheran churches…not in the most important matters though, so don’t get too exited

 

[RevNeal]

Thank you for your thoughts and your questions regarding my practice of offering the Eucharist over the Internet. Allow me to address a few questions and thoughts that have been expressed in the above posts.

1. The practice of offering Holy Communion over the internet is not approved by the United Methodist Church in our Doctrinal Standards, our formal statement on the Sacrament of Holy Communion (“This Holy Mystery”), or by statements by the Council of Bishops. However, neither is the practice expressly prohibited. The Discipline of the United Methodist Church and the Book of Worship of the United Methodist Church is silent on the issue of temporal and spatial proximity: the elements used in the sacrament need not be on the Altar before the celebrating minister or, indeed, necessarily even in the same room.
2. My practice of offering the Sacrament over the internet is entirely experimental. I admit as much in my theological treatment of the subject, which you can find here:

revneal.org/Writings/onlinecommunionremarks.html

1. I am clear in that I do not advocate the celebration of the Sacrament by lay people, nor should this be an encouragement to lay people to attempt to preside at the Table. Such would definitely be a violation of the United Methodist Discipline, which is clear in that Ordained Elders or Licensed Local Pastors are the only ones authorized to celebrate the sacrament. Rather, my argument is that when I am presiding at the table, and recording the service for streaming play or download over the internet, spatial and temporal constraints do not limit the grace of God in the consecration of the elements. If someone wishes to participate in an on-line Eucharist at which I am celebrant, in union with the congregation which was present at the time and place where the service was recorded, they are welcome to do so. All they need are the elements on their side of the internet and, my argument runs, those elements are included in the consecration prayer which I have prayed. In other words, I am the consecrating celebrant, not the lay person on the other end of the internet.
2. Again, this is entirely experimental. From the feed-back I have received, some who have participated in our Eucharists through the internet have been deeply touched by the experience of participating in the online Communion. Regardless of one’s understanding, if some discover this to be a means of grace in and of itself – even if it is not actually the Eucharist – then it serves a positive purpose. Additionally, if it then encourages one to attend public worship and partake of the Sacrament in a local church, then so much the better. And this has been the case, based upon the e-mails I have received, on many occasions.
3. It should be noted that I expressly reject the idea that online Holy Communion be considered or used to the exclusion of frequently participating in the divine sacrament in a local congregation. As I state:

Do I consider it immeasurably better for one to partake of the Means of Grace — and, most especially, Holy Communion — within a physically localized community of believers? Absolutely. I have never encouraged anyone to “forsake the gathering of the saints together.” Indeed, just as my Audio Sermons on the Internet should never be thought of as an alternative to listening to the preached Word within a localized Congregation, so also my offering of the Lord’s Supper over the Internet should never be thought of as an alternative to partaking the Sacrament within a localized Congregation. Indeed, I have never intended for anyone to receive any of the Means of Grace through my ministry to the exclusion of receiving them within a Church. Rather, they are being offered in addition to, and in supplementation of, the normative experience of the Means of Grace within a gathered, physically localized, worshiping Congregation.

1. And, finally, regarding the elements, I prefer the use of unleavened bread, however as I state “legalism is not the watchword here.” So, that is why I state that any form of bread is acceptable.

I hope the above helps to outline, a bit more clearly, my thinking in offering the Eucharist over the internet. I also hope it puts to rest the thought that I am inviting lay people to preside at the consecration of the elements. Questions regarding the validity of United Methodist orders is another matter, of course, however suffice it to say that I believe that those who have partaken the sacrament with my congregations via the internet have received the elements as consecrated by my praying of the Great Thanksgiving (and its anamnesis and epiclesis).

Grace and Peace,

Greg+
Dr. Gregory S. Neal
Senior Pastor
St. Stephen United Methodist Chruch
2520 Oates Drive
Mesquite, Texas 75150

Rector
Grace Incarnate Ministries