Protestants: Do you believe that Christ is truly present in the communion elements of bread and wine?

[Peter_J]

Probably for the same reason you are on this Catholic site, which attacks my faith, and beliefs.

It might be interesting to do a survey: “Do you use the internet to ‘attack’ Protestants (or Catholics, if you’re a Protestant yourself)?” I suspect most people would answer “No”.

Maybe I should “exit quickly” as you did?

I don’t know about “quickly”, but you should exit the forum. Better yet, exit and then while you’re away from the forum spend an hour or so reading a good Catholic author (like Scott Hahn ). Then come back to the forum, rinse and repeat.

The only thing left to say I guess is that yes, it is true. You don’t have anything to say from the Bible which would disprove the true Protestant position on many subjects.

First let me say that I respect your opinions; second, I knew you held those opinions even before you said them, just by virtue of your being Protestant: I mean, if you believed that Catholics could disprove the Protestant positions using the Bible, then you would be Catholic rather than Protestant, right? (Conversely, I believe that the Catholic positions are correct; but I figure you already know that, by virtue of the fact that I’m Catholic.)

 

[ryanoneil]

Leviticus 17:4 "For as for the life of all flesh, its blood is identified with its life. Therefore I said to the sons of Israel, 'You are not to eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood; whoever eats it shall be cut off.’

God does not change and Jesus would not violate His own command.

There is a big difference between drinking the blood from dead animals and drinking the living blood of Jesus Christ. The Old Covenant was not designed to give life, only knowledge of sin. Because blood was the source of life, it could not be drunk. In the New Covenant, JESUS IS THE SOURCE OF OUR LIFE. The very blood that removes the Old Covenant laws now actually gives life, and must be drunk.

**For it is testified: “You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.” On the one hand, a former commandment is annulled because of its weakness and uselessness, for the law brought nothing to perfection; on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God. (Heb 7:17-19)

For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second one. (Heb 8:7)

Then he says, “Behold, I come to do your will.” He takes away the first to establish the second. (Heb 10:9)**

All of the Jewish religious laws and rituals concerning festivals, diets, circumcision and consuming blood are obsolete. We live in freedom.

**For the kingdom of God is not a matter of food and drink, but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the holy Spirit; (Rom 14:17)

Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. (Col 2:16)**

 

[benedictus2]

I don’t know about “quickly”, but you should exit the forum. Better yet, exit and then while you’re away from the forum spend an hour or so reading a good Catholic author (like Scott Hahn ). Then come back to the forum, rinse and repeat.

:clapping: :clapping:

 

[NonCatholic]

There is a big difference between drinking the blood from dead animals and drinking the living blood of Jesus Christ. The Old Covenant was not designed to give life, only knowledge of sin. Because blood was the source of life, it could not be drunk. In the New Covenant, JESUS IS THE SOURCE OF OUR LIFE. The very blood that removes the Old Covenant laws now actually gives life, and must be drunk.

**For it is testified: “You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.” On the one hand, a former commandment is annulled because of its weakness and uselessness, for the law brought nothing to perfection; on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God. (Heb 7:17-19)

For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second one. (Heb 8:7)

Then he says, “Behold, I come to do your will.” He takes away the first to establish the second. (Heb 10:9)**

All of the Jewish religious laws and rituals concerning festivals, diets, circumcision and consuming blood are obsolete. We live in freedom.

**For the kingdom of God is not a matter of food and drink, but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the holy Spirit; (Rom 14:17)

Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. (Col 2:16)**

Atypical, you don’t look at Leviticus in its context, were talking raw flesh and raw blood. So you prove the point with Christ and actually make it worse…I think…do you kill Him before eating Him or do you eat Him alive?

Also, if go by Hebrews, then please take away you repetitious sacrifice of Christ, which was done away with, take away your false priesthood, which was done away with, which means the Mass is also false and altogether it is another gospel a poor shadow of the Levitical system. So which is it? Do you pick and chose which apply and which don’t? I am amazed that the entire Catholic system can sit on a handful of passages, maybe a hand and a half…it is really quite fascinating, but it saddening because of the souls involved.

I’m glad this forum has reached the end of its life.

May God bless you with His peace and joy!

The next post will be 1000, sorry were all out of prizes

 

[Cinette]

*2 Peter 3:16

“For there are many things in scripture that are hard to understand which ignorant and unstable people distort as they do the other scriptures to their destruction”*

 

[NonCatholic]

*2 Peter 3:16

“For there are many things in scripture that are hard to understand which ignorant and unstable people distort as they do the other scriptures to their destruction”*

First, congratulation you were post #1000!!!:extrahappy: :harp: :extrahappy:

Second,
Job 33:33 “If not, listen to me; Keep silent, and I will teach you wisdom.”

Psalm 34:11 Come, you children, listen to me; I will teach you the fear of the LORD.

Mark 7:6 And He said to them, "Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME. "

 

[Peter_J]

Also, if go by Hebrews, then please take away you repetitious sacrifice of Christ, which was done away with, take away your false priesthood, which was done away with, which means the Mass is also false and altogether it is another gospel a poor shadow of the Levitical system.

The Church – the spotless Body of Christ – is sinless and infallible; but we individually are sinful and fallible. I don’t doubt that there have been individual Catholics who saw it as a “repetitious sacrifice”, but that doesn’t mean that it is a “repetitious sacrifice”.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Atypical, you don’t look at Leviticus in its context, were talking raw flesh and raw blood. So you prove the point with Christ and actually make it worse…I think…do you kill Him before eating Him or do you eat Him alive?

Also, if go by Hebrews, then please take away you repetitious sacrifice of Christ, which was done away with, take away your false priesthood, which was done away with, which means the Mass is also false and altogether it is another gospel a poor shadow of the Levitical system. So which is it? Do you pick and chose which apply and which don’t? I am amazed that the entire Catholic system can sit on a handful of passages, maybe a hand and a half…it is really quite fascinating, but it saddening because of the souls involved.

I’m glad this forum has reached the end of its life.

May God bless you with His peace and joy!

The next post will be 1000, sorry were all out of prizes

non-cathloic-the devil is known to have tempted Our Lord by quoting scripture out of the original context.

 

[benedictus2]

Mark 7:6 And He said to them, "Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME. "

I think that was addressed to you.

 

[Church_Militant]

Probably for the same reason you are on this Catholic site, which attacks my faith, and beliefs. Maybe I should “exit quickly” as you did?

That’s untrue. Your “faith community” http://bestsmileys.com/angry2/11.gif has a long reputation for lies, misinformation, and dishonest efforts at proselytizing Catholics away from their faith. We simply provide accurate information to counter that propaganda.

Remember, I’ve read a great deal of SDA literature (“The Great Controversy”, etc) and websites, and quite frankly, most Catholics that refute them are far and away more charitable than the rhetorical polemics and specious propaganda that we refute.

The only thing left to say I guess is that yes, it is true. You don’t have anything to say from the Bible which would disprove the true Protestant position on many subjects.

That is indeed laughable at best coming from a faith community that has (at least) 2 or 3 times predicted the date and time of Christ’s return in clear contradiction of the New Testament and (just for instance) teaches that Jesus and Michael the archangel, (“the angel of the Lord”) are one and the same person and thus wrongly inferring that Jesus was not fully divine. The ramifications of that are counter to the teachings of every orthodox Christian faith community in existence.

SDA propaganda has been regularly refuted here at CAF and when the SDA stops cranking out all that misinformation about the Catholic faith, then you can probably expect the Catholics here to stop asking about it and those of us who have investigated it to stop wasting time refuting it.

BTW, since the Bible itself does not teach that everything that Christians believe and practice has to come from its pages, (generally known as Sola Scriptura) and the Catholic Church has never taught such an error then there is no reason at all for Catholics to rely solely upon the Bible to refute SDA misinformation and propaganda.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[benedictus2]

Atypical, you don’t look at Leviticus in its context, were talking raw flesh and raw blood. So you prove the point with Christ and actually make it worse…I think…do you kill Him before eating Him or do you eat Him alive?

A typical. As usual you fail to understand Leviticus in its context.

As I have said before Jesus was a devout Jew. Do you not think He would know Leviticus before he started saying eat my flesh, drink my blood.

So why did he say it anyway? Hmmm.

And by the way, you are being dishonest with this post again.

You know very well that we do not eat flesh, and you know very weil that that is stupid line about killing Jesus before eating him but you post it any way.

You are beginning to sound like a petulant child. For goodness sake, grow up and start posting sensible arguments.

The bread is his flesh.

Also, if go by Hebrews, then please take away you repetitious sacrifice of Christ, which was done away with, take away your false priesthood, which was done away with, which means the Mass is also false and altogether it is another gospel a poor shadow of the Levitical system. So which is it? Do you pick and chose which apply and which don’t? I am amazed that the entire Catholic system can sit on a handful of passages, maybe a hand and a half…it is really quite fascinating, but it saddening because of the souls involved.

I’m glad this forum has reached the end of its life.

May God bless you with His peace and joy!

The next post will be 1000, sorry were all out of prizes

And there you go again with a re-posting of your previous post.

You really need to increase your repertoire.

A better idea is to actually read the responses to your post and for once come up with a rational, logical rebuttal.

 

[NonCatholic]

To Nancy,

This thread is about to wind up and I thought I would address this post to you.

You mentioned that you were baptized Catholic. I don’t know how long ago you left the faith but I am sure that your reason for leaving would have been due to being terribly under Catechized so you did not really know what the Church believes. You have probably been lied to about the Catholic Church and at this stage you still don’t know that they are lies.

When I was in high school, a friend of mine decided to become “born again” and she had so many things to say against the Catholic Church. She said she just did not find in the Church what she was looking for.

I said to her that it’s like we were both put in a room and asked to look for a precious Jewel. She left because she thought the Precious Jewel was not there so went looking for it somewhere else. I stayed because I found the Precious Jewel right there in that room. And the longer I stayed the more I realized how beautiful it indeed is. You see, the Jewel was there all the time, she just did not have the eyes to see.

When I hear Catholics leave the church, I feel sad because I know they are leaving that which is Christ’s family here on earth.

You see when Christ ascended to the Father, He knew that we would need more than just a book to guide us. That is why in all His time on earth, He did not write nor did He ask His apostles to write about Him. Think about that.

What did He do? He built a Church. The Catholic Church. And if you do a bit more research, you will know that the Catholic Church is the same Church that Christ founded upon Peter 2000 years ago. And the Popes are Peter’s succesors.

And this book, the Bible that you love so much was written within the heart of the Church. The early Christian Church was Catholic. The Bible is a Catholic book.
As a matter of fact, your denomination will be unable to trace itself back to that moment in Caesaria Philipi when Christ said to Peter: You are rock, and upon this rock I will build my Church.

I find it rather interesting when people say that when they were Catholics they did not know anything about the Bible. If that was the case then it was their own fault.

If you still remember the Masses you went to, do you remember how many readings from the Bible there were? On Sundays 4, on ordinary days 3, at Easter Vigil 7. We get to hear great dollops from the Bible. But sadly, you probably did not pay attention at Mass.

I would suggest that since you are here at CAF to please read carefully what we have written. Do not skim over them.

If you keep going as you are now, barely reading what we have written, on the ready to go to a cross reference book so you can post something, then, you will not learn.

Do not rely on whatever book you are going for your references. Read the Bible. Ponder the passages from the Bible that we have painstakingly written in our posts. Turn it over in your mind. Digest it.

I believe God has brought you here so that you will learn more about that home that you left. So that you will know how beautiful it is and how truly the Holy Spirit continues to guide it. And how gently our Lord is calling you back Home.

So think about it.

Go through this thread and read. Slowly. Learn.

Here are some links which might help you.

Scott Hahn conversion Story
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0088.html

Peter Kreft - Hauled Aboard the Ark
http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/hauled-aboard.htm

The History of the Catholic Church (diagram)
http://www.scborromeo.org/truth/figure1.pdf

Time line of the Catholic Church to 1 – 500 BC
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/timeline_of_catholic_church.htm

Timeline of how the Bible came to us
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/timeline_of_how_the_bible_where.htm

God bless you. May He grant you a listening heart and an open mind.

I thought proselytize was against the forum rules…oh maybe that only applies to nonCatholics…would the Catholics have more than one standard? Hum?

 

[benedictus2]

I thought proselytize was against the forum rules…oh maybe that only applies to nonCatholics…would the Catholics have more than one standard? Hum?

There is nothing in that post that I have not said as a rebuttal to a protestants post. It is merely a summary.

What, afraid that she will actually have an open mind unlike yours?

 

[Church_Militant]

I thought proselytize was against the forum rules…oh maybe that only applies to nonCatholics…would the Catholics have more than one standard? Hum?

[SIGN]Exactly![/SIGN]

 

[Michael_Francis]

Over 1,000 post limit and closed.