Protestants, do you take issue with these?

[adstrinity]

O Blessed Lord, who hast set up for us an example of ideal purity, strengthen me, I be-seech thee, when temptation besets me, and when strong passions seek to overwhelm me, that I may remain constant in virtue and innocent in thought, ward, and deed, doing such things only as are well-pleasing unto thee; grant me growth in wisdom and under-standing, that I may serve thee in holiness all the days of my life: through the intercessions of thine all-immaculate Mother and of all thy Saints, especially my patron Saint N. Amen.

Rejoice Mary, Mother of God, Virgin, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, for thou hast borne the Savior of our souls. Meet it is in truth, to glorify thee, O Birth-giver of God, ever blessed, and all undefiled, the Mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim, thou who without stain didst bear God the word, true Birth-giver of God, we magnify thee.

O gracious Mother of the gracious God, O most pure and blessed Mary, the Mother of God, pour the mercy of thy Son and our God upon my impassionate soul, and with thine intercessions set me unto good deeds, that I may pass the rest of my life without blemish and, with thine aid, attain heaven. O Virgin mother of God, the only one who art pure and blessed. O Queen of the Heavenly Host, Defender of our souls: being delivered from evil, as thy servants, O Mother of God, we offer unto thee the hymns of thanks and victory; but as thou hast power invincible, deliver us from all calamity, that we may cry unto thee: Rejoice, O ever-Virgin Bride!
orthodoxnet.com/worship/occasionalprayers.html
O most glorious Ever-Virgin Mary, Mother of Christ our God, accept our prayers and present them to thy son and our God, that He may, for thy sake, enlighten and save our souls.
ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/prayers/panagia.html

 

[AlwaysAsking]

well…

I’ve been saying a rosary a day for my husband, but that would absolutely scandalize everybody I know.

All I’m supposed to say about Mary is that God is no respecter of persons and only Jesus was free of sin. The whole concept of asking people in heaven to pray for you is completely taboo. I guess you could ask Moses or Elijah, but nobody does.

 

[With_Questions]

Since you asked…

Talking to dead people strikes me as rather strange. I don’t do it myself.

 

[The_Smiter]

Since you asked…

Talking to dead people strikes me as rather strange. I don’t do it myself.

I do not think of those who have gone before me as “dead people” (except of course, if they are in Hell). But I have hope that loved ones, the saints, etc, are in Heaven and part of the Church Triumphant who still care about me as a soul who struggles to live a Christ-like life here on Earth. As members of the Communion of Saints, I would hope that they pray for me as the end of times is not yet here.

Heaven must be a pretty interesting place right now. I imagine that there is much rejoicing, but that there is also concern for those of us who are still here and for those who are not yet born - that we will all come to know Christ, please God, and do His work while given the chance. Lots of activity with their prayers and intercession to be sure!!

While we are on Earth, we pray intercessory prayer for others all of the time. I do not think that it is too hard to believe that those in Heaven still pray for us in such a manner and that we whould pray for the souls in Purgatory that they are released from suffering and can move on to Heaven where they can pray for me as well.

Just my thoughts.

No problem with the OP’s original words. Very nice.

 

[With_Questions]

I do not think of those who have gone before me as “dead people” (except of course, if they are in Hell).

OK.

For the sake of clarification, let me amend my previous post.

Talking to physically dead people strikes me as rather strange. I don’t do it myself.

 

[The_Smiter]

OK.

For the sake of clarification, let me amend my previous post.

Talking to physically dead people strikes me as rather strange. I don’t do it myself.

Thank you for your clarification, but it seems to make your objection even more difficult to understand.

If you believe in the Body of Christ and the Communion of Saints then physically dead or physically alive, there would really be no difference with respect to praying for, with, and to the dead.

We can, of course, never pray for any of the dead, but that would be uncharitable since we can relieve some of their suffering with our prayers. We do not have to pray to the saints, but I would rather think that God listens to those who have achieved His reward of Heaven when they ask Him to help. And certainly you do not have to ask the Blessed Mother for aid, yet how can any son refuse requests from His mother? It was at her request that Jesus began his public ministry. He seems like a dutiful, obedient, and loving Son. I do not mind having His mother, OUR mother, on my side!

I am sure that ytou have heard all of this before, so if I might ask - what exactly strikes you as strange about praying for or to the dead?

 

[Thorwald]

It is written in the NT, that the use of repititious prayer (ie. memorized verbiage) is frowned upon by God. Our prayers, come from our hearts, as the need arises (this can be many times per day). We should begin and end our day with prayer. During our waking hours, we should constantly seek wisdom from God, when we must make decisions, that will affect our own lives, and the lives of others. We are constantly required to glorify God, in anything we do or say. We are basically an extension of God and His Word, here on earth. Our whole life should be devoted to Him, only.

Jesus Christ came to ‘bear witness’ to the truth. He died for this truth. This truth is the Word of God. The Word of God, IS GOD. If we change the Word of God, we worship a different God.

Saul was frowned upon by God, because he saught wisdom from Samuel (who was carnally dead, and asleep), via a medium. Jesus Christ, is the first to be risen from the dead, and currently resides in heaven, on the right hand of His Father (our Father). Why would God frown upon Saul (an annointed king) and not upon us, if we pray to other dead (sleeping) persons? What are we trying to do? Jesus Christ, is the only ‘door’ available, in order to reach God (our Father). He, and only He, is found worthy, in all of heaven. This is also God’s Word.

 

[JonNC]

O Blessed Lord, who hast set up for us an example of ideal purity, strengthen me, I be-seech thee, when temptation besets me, and when strong passions seek to overwhelm me, that I may remain constant in virtue and innocent in thought, ward, and deed, doing such things only as are well-pleasing unto thee; grant me growth in wisdom and under-standing, that I may serve thee in holiness all the days of my life: through the intercessions of thine all-immaculate Mother and of all thy Saints, especially my patron Saint N. Amen.

Rejoice Mary, Mother of God, Virgin, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, for thou hast borne the Savior of our souls. Meet it is in truth, to glorify thee, O Birth-giver of God, ever blessed, and all undefiled, the Mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim, thou who without stain didst bear God the word, true Birth-giver of God, we magnify thee.

O gracious Mother of the gracious God, O most pure and blessed Mary, the Mother of God, pour the mercy of thy Son and our God upon my impassionate soul, and with thine intercessions set me unto good deeds, that I may pass the rest of my life without blemish and, with thine aid, attain heaven. O Virgin mother of God, the only one who art pure and blessed. O Queen of the Heavenly Host, Defender of our souls: being delivered from evil, as thy servants, O Mother of God, we offer unto thee the hymns of thanks and victory; but as thou hast power invincible, deliver us from all calamity, that we may cry unto thee: Rejoice, O ever-Virgin Bride!
orthodoxnet.com/worship/occasionalprayers.html
O most glorious Ever-Virgin Mary, Mother of Christ our God, accept our prayers and present them to thy son and our God, that He may, for thy sake, enlighten and save our souls.
ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/prayers/panagia.html

It depends, ads, on what you mean by “take issue”.

I have no problem with the first because scripture is clear that the Church Triumphant does pray (intercede) for us, though Lutherans believe in a general way, and not as a repsonse to our requests. Afterall, it is a prayer directed to God, and to ask him to hear the prayers of His Church Triumphant does not offend.

The second is not a prayer or a request for intercession, but a statement of praise for the BVM, and the statements are, I believe, true.

The 3rd and 4th are requests for intercession, which is part of the practice of Catholics. Not something I do or ascribe to, but I don’t take issue with it.

Jon

 

[emeraldcoast]

O Blessed Lord, who hast set up for us an example of ideal purity, strengthen me, I be-seech thee, when temptation besets me, and when strong passions seek to overwhelm me, that I may remain constant in virtue and innocent in thought, ward, and deed, doing such things only as are well-pleasing unto thee; grant me growth in wisdom and under-standing, that I may serve thee in holiness all the days of my life: through the intercessions of thine all-immaculate Mother and of all thy Saints, especially my patron Saint N. Amen.

What does all-immaculate Mother mean?

God Bless!

 

[JonNC]

What does all-immaculate Mother mean?

God Bless!

Does seem a bit redundant, doesn’t it?

Jon

 

[gcnuss]

O Blessed Lord, who hast set up for us an example of ideal purity, strengthen me, I be-seech thee, when temptation besets me, and when strong passions seek to overwhelm me, that I may remain constant in virtue and innocent in thought, ward, and deed, doing such things only as are well-pleasing unto thee; grant me growth in wisdom and under-standing, that I may serve thee in holiness all the days of my life: through the intercessions of thine all-immaculate Mother and of all thy Saints, especially my patron Saint N. Amen.

With Jon, I see nothing objectionable in this, although I question whether it is necessary to invoke the intercessions of the Saints. I’m sure they will do what they will.

Rejoice Mary, Mother of God, Virgin, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb,

This comes straight from scripture so who can argue with it?

for thou hast borne the Savior of our souls.

True

Meet it is in truth, to glorify thee, O Birth-giver of God, ever blessed, and all undefiled, the Mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim, thou who without stain didst bear God the word, true Birth-giver of God, we magnify thee.

A bit over the top in flowery language for me, but nothing that I will argue with in content.

O gracious Mother of the gracious God, O most pure and blessed Mary, the Mother of God, pour the mercy of thy Son and our God upon my impassionate soul, and with thine intercessions set me unto good deeds, that I may pass the rest of my life without blemish and, with thine aid, attain heaven. O Virgin mother of God, the only one who art pure and blessed.

What about her son?

O Queen of the Heavenly Host, Defender of our souls: being delivered from evil, as thy servants, O Mother of God, we offer unto thee the hymns of thanks and victory; but as thou hast power invincible

Does Mary really have invincible power?

**deliver us from all calamity, that we may cry unto thee: Rejoice, O ever-Virgin Bride! **

Is it within her power to deliver us from anything?

O most glorious Ever-Virgin Mary, Mother of Christ our God, accept our prayers and present them to thy son and our God, that He may, for thy sake, enlighten and save our souls.

Regarding this last prayer, I present my own prayers to her son and to our God. I don’t know that I need to ask Mary to do so. On the other hand, there is an old saying that if you want to get a Jewish man to do something for you, get his mother on your side.

These are my thoughts on the subject prayers. At the same time, I don’t wish to denigrate anyone who finds spiritual comfort in such prayers. And, most certainly, Mary is a most wonderful example of faith and obedience to God’s will.

 

[AshleyBelle]

With Jon, I see nothing objectionable in this, although I question whether it is necessary to invoke the intercessions of the Saints. I’m sure they will do what they will.

This comes straight from scripture so who can argue with it? True A bit over the top in flowery language for me, but nothing that I will argue with in content.

What about her son?

Does Mary really have invincible power?

Is it within her power to deliver us from anything?

Regarding this last prayer, I present my own prayers to her son and to our God. I don’t know that I need to ask Mary to do so. On the other hand, there is an old saying that if you want to get a Jewish man to do something for you, get his mother on your side.

These are my thoughts on the subject prayers. At the same time, I don’t wish to denigrate anyone who finds spiritual comfort in such prayers. And, most certainly, Mary is a most wonderful example of faith and obedience to God’s will.

I just wanted to say thank you! :)  This has been the MOST charitable and thoughtful reply from a non-catholic on the subject of Marian prayers!

God bless you

 

[gcnuss]

I just wanted to say thank you! This has been the MOST charitable and thoughtful reply from a non-catholic on the subject of Marian prayers!

God bless you

Thank you, and may God bless you also.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**
Talking to dead people strikes me as rather strange. I don’t do it myself**

**But the fact is, they are NOT dead.

To drag strangers into the conversation, Someone greater than anyone who posts to these boards said that God is not the god of the dead but the God of the living.**

 

[JonNC]

With Jon, I see nothing objectionable in this, although I question whether it is necessary to invoke the intercessions of the Saints. I’m sure they will do what they will.

This comes straight from scripture so who can argue with it? True A bit over the top in flowery language for me, but nothing that I will argue with in content.

What about her son?

Does Mary really have invincible power?

Is it within her power to deliver us from anything?

Regarding this last prayer, I present my own prayers to her son and to our God. I don’t know that I need to ask Mary to do so. On the other hand, there is an old saying that if you want to get a Jewish man to do something for you, get his mother on your side.

These are my thoughts on the subject prayers. At the same time, I don’t wish to denigrate anyone who finds spiritual comfort in such prayers. And, most certainly, Mary is a most wonderful example of faith and obedience to God’s will.

Well said, Pastor.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

I just wanted to say thank you! This has been the MOST charitable and thoughtful reply from a non-catholic on the subject of Marian prayers!

God bless you

Gees, AshleyBelle, I thought I was pretty charibale, too.
Actually, Pastor said it all pretty well.

Jon

 

[Henning]

O gracious Mother of the gracious God, O most pure and blessed Mary, the Mother of God, pour the mercy of thy Son and our God upon my impassionate soul, and **with thine intercessions **set me unto good deeds, that I may pass the rest of my life without blemish and, with thine aid, attain heaven. O Virgin mother of God, the only one who art pure and blessed. O Queen of the Heavenly Host, Defender of our souls: being delivered from evil, as thy servants, O Mother of God, we offer unto thee the hymns of thanks and victory; but as thou hast power invincible, deliver us from all calamity, that we may cry unto thee: Rejoice, O ever-Virgin Bride!
orthodoxnet.com/worship/occasionalprayers.html
O most glorious Ever-Virgin Mary, Mother of Christ our God, accept our prayers and present them to thy son and our God, that He may, for thy sake, enlighten and save our souls.
ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/prayers/panagia.html

Have a couple issues with this last paragraph.

1. I still have resistance to Mary’s (or other saints) intercessions, namely whether Mary/saints can channel prayers by themelves to us. When I pray I always channel or pray through/in the name of Jesus whether it be to the Father or whether I pray for Mary, I do it in the name of Jesus. I would suspect (IMO) that outgoing prayers from persons in heaven or people on earth praying for me would be similarly channeled. IMO, Jesus is the important element with people’s intercessions…ie I don’t want anyone praying for me in the name of Budda or Mary, and I don’t want Mary to pray for me if its not channeled through Jesus. (hope that makes sense ).
2. I don’t consider myself a servant of Mary, but of the LordMatthew 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ

 

[AshleyBelle]

Gees, AshleyBelle, I thought I was pretty charibale, too.
Actually, Pastor said it all pretty well.

Jon

:hug1: Ok…consider this an internet hug from me to all of the non catholic posters such as yourself who are charitable and honest in their replies

 

[racing59]

I personally have no problem with having Jesus’ mother pray for us. The ancient Jews use to pray before the Ark of the Covenant, they believed was a transmitter to God. I see Mary as the New Ark of the Covenant. 1) She cared God’s Word. 2) She carried the bread of life( like the manna in the desert) 3) She carried the iron rod ( like the staff) that will rule all nations, Jesus Christ. Another point is Paul said death can not separate us from the Body of Jesus Christ. When I was a Baptist ***. Pastor we always loved Rev. 8:3-5, the prayers of the saints taken by the angels to the throne of God in a gold incenser . Just food for thought.

 

[LutheranDK]

O Blessed Lord, who hast set up for us an example of ideal purity, strengthen me, I be-seech thee, when temptation besets me, and when strong passions seek to overwhelm me, that I may remain constant in virtue and innocent in thought, ward, and deed, doing such things only as are well-pleasing unto thee; grant me growth in wisdom and under-standing, that I may serve thee in holiness all the days of my life:

So far, a very beautiful prayer that I think all Christians would be wise to pray!

through the intercessions of thine all-immaculate Mother and of all thy Saints, especially my patron Saint N. Amen.

Here, I have an issue. Praying God as you have above, but only through Mary and this Saint N?
With due respect - this seems like you’re mentioning Mary and the Saints, just because “no prayer is complete without”.

Rejoice Mary, Mother of God, Virgin, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, for thou hast borne the Savior of our souls.

Although the text is right, the state of mind behind it (veneration of Mary) is not.

Meet it is in truth, to glorify thee, O Birth-giver of God, ever blessed, and all undefiled, the Mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim, thou who without stain didst bear God the word, true Birth-giver of God, we magnify thee.

1: And, as you might have guessed, I take issue here too.
Well, yes, Mary WAS more honorable and glorious than the Cherubim and Seraphim, but only because HUMANS are. We are created as greater beings than the angels - only slightly lesser than God Himself.
My point is, that if it is conceeded that the reason Mary was greater than the Cherubim and Seraphim is that she was human, then I agree. If not, I do not.

2: I doubt very much that Mary was “undefiled” (how, btw, is sexual relations within marriage ever going to be defiling?) - for reasons I have argued time and again.

O gracious Mother of the gracious God, O most pure and blessed Mary, the Mother of God, pour the mercy of thy Son and our God upon my impassionate soul, and with thine intercessions set me unto good deeds, that I may pass the rest of my life without blemish and, with thine aid, attain heaven.

Why are you asking Mary to do what only Jesus can do - id est pour His mercy upon you, and strenghten you to do good?
Secondly, the theology of justification behind this (salvation through faith AND works, not through FAITH which carries works with it) is, in my view, heretical.

O Virgin mother of God, the only one who art pure and blessed.

Not true. Scripture teaches us that those who believe in Him are all “children of God” - and have been cleansed in the blood of the Lamb. How much purer and more blessed can you become?

O Queen of the Heavenly Host, Defender of our souls:

NO!
1: Mary is not the defender of our souls. The Holy Spirit is the one who guides us, and He also sends angels to defend us.

2: How is Mary “Queen of the Heavenly Host”? Is there more than ONE ruler in Heaven?

being delivered from evil

Well, depends on what is meant by “being delivered from evil”. If it means that now she is no longer on this Earth, the dangerous poison of sin can touch her no more; that she is beyond the reach of temptation, then I agree.
But I sense the doctrine of immaculate conception behind this, and that is not something I can agree to.

as thy servants, O Mother of God, we offer unto thee the hymns of thanks and victory; but as thou hast power invincible, deliver us from all calamity, that we may cry unto thee: Rejoice, O ever-Virgin Bride!

I offer hymns to no one but God. I might very well remember the martyrs and holy men and women of the past through hymns and prayers, but NEVER directing those hymns to THEM. I plead God to help me follow their examples - and that’s where it ends.
Furthermore: Mary is not able to deliver us from any calamity. Only God is.
And finally, I have serious doubts on whether or not Mary was perpetually virgin, but that’s a discussion for another time.

O most glorious Ever-Virgin Mary, Mother of Christ our God, accept our prayers and present them to thy son and our God, that He may, for thy sake, enlighten and save our souls.

Well, a little better. But only a little. Because it seems from this that Mary has to persuade Jesus to enlighten us and save us.
I can just picture the conversation:
“Please, Son, enlighten them, and save them”
“Nahhh…don’t really want to”
“I beg you - please!”
“Arrrh…alright already!”

If this above fictional conversation is anywhere NEAR to resembling what’s meant, then I’m going to use a word that I am very, very careful about using: “Blasphemy”

A long post, but you asked if I had issues - here’s your answer