Protestants, does your Church preach or talk about Mary?

[2ndGen]

We are given graces and blessings to recognize Jesus as Our Savior; but how many Christians (Catholics and Non-Catholics) actually recognize Jesus in others? If one can honor, love and care for a homeless, one should do the same thing for Our blessed Virgin Mary.

 

[gcnuss]

Hi folks,

As a Lutheran pastor, I can say that I have preached about Mary, particularly with regard to the Annunciation. I find her faith and her willingness to follow God’s will, despite being put in an uncomfortable situation (unmarried, pregnant) to be an excellent example for all of us.

God calls all of us to do things that may be uncomfortable, but he never calls us to do something that we cannot do with the help of the Holy Spirit. Unlike Mary, we don’t always say “yes.”

 

[water]

Hi folks,

As a Lutheran pastor, I can say that I have preached about Mary, particularly with regard to the Annunciation. I find her faith and her willingness to follow God’s will, despite being put in an uncomfortable situation (unmarried, pregnant) to be an excellent example for all of us.

God calls all of us to do things that may be uncomfortable, but he never calls us to do something that we cannot do with the help of the Holy Spirit. Unlike Mary, we don’t always say “yes.”

Thank you, Pastor Gary for your comment. It is very true.

 

[MarkBrown]

The SBC uses her to club catholics, especially at Easter and Christmas

Do I preach on Mary? Yes and carefully.

I preach about her devotion to Christ and her submission to God regardless of the outcome. I preach how we should be like her and how she points to Christ for salvation. I use her as the model mother for the mothers in my congregation.

She is the example of a true christian.

My view of her is she is a spotless bride and pilgrim sinner, Virgin mother of man and the GOD-bearer and a handmaiden of faith.

She was and is special, for she was specifically choosen by GOD.

Why be careful? Until the 1920’s the SBC held her in high regard, but the SBC has devolved into knee jerk Roman Catholic opposition.

I have been “called on the carpet” because my congregation has communion once a month, I say nice things about Roman Catholics (evening quoting a Pope or two), my view of Mary etc.
I have even been asked how I can be friends with RC priest? I have been accused of trying to turn my congregation into a “romish” church.

And have I always viewed Mary thus? No. Only in the last 4-5 years. As my friend Fr. Mike saids, There is hope!

Mark

 

[jwashu]

It’s funny how many Baptist beliefs are truly very close to Catholicism, just under a different name… but that’s another post.

I can tall you growing up, Baptist, that I rarely heard Mary mentioned except at Christmas and use to bash Catholics who “worshipped her.”

More importantly though throughout that time AND my time as a Presbyterian she was never mentioned much. I have heard sermons on pretty much every other woman in the Bible except Mary (Ruth, Sarah, Haggar etc…) but never the Mother of my Savior.

The only logical conclusion to this is that the Pastors didn’t want to sound Catholic. What is odd is that my old Pastor is one of my good friends and I know he dosen’t have an anti-Catholic bone in his body. He dose not agree with the Theology but harbors no ill will.

In his New Christians class he taught for new members, probably about half the class (we had a lot of former Baptist… actually we were kind of PresbyBaptist… very conservative for a PC-USA chuch) were stunned when he would list Catholics as brothers and sisters in Christ… oh well, it is the South I guess.

We still have a long way to go down here, however I hope to expand the swim team significatly next year once I finish mine

Joe

 

[2ndGen]

Hi folks,

As a Lutheran pastor, I can say that I have preached about Mary, particularly with regard to the Annunciation. I find her faith and her willingness to follow God’s will, despite being put in an uncomfortable situation (unmarried, pregnant) to be an excellent example for all of us.

God calls all of us to do things that may be uncomfortable, but he never calls us to do something that we cannot do with the help of the Holy Spirit. Unlike Mary, we don’t always say “yes.”

Pastor Gary,

Thank you for contributing to the thread. It’s always best to hear things from the horse’s mouth.

I’ve learned much from the charitable Protestants here and have had my former misconceptions cleared and I’ve learned a ton about Martin Luther himself.

In my unbridled fervor, I’ve made uncharitable comments about him, but they weren’t really about him as much as they were about the person I was debating with. In Spanish, we call this an “indirecta” or an indirect (passive) insult. Of course, I pray to God for forgiveness for these actions when I was out of the heat of the exchange.

There is a thread here on what is a Protestant started because I personally stated that mainline Protestants were closer to Catholicism than were the offshoots of Protestant in manners of worship, in the sharing of beliefs, etc…where the newer (last century and a half) Protestants were not only distanced from us, but from Anglicanism, Episcopalinism, Lutheranism, etc…

In essence, I was basically attacked for daring to suggest that Lutherans didn’t protest The Catholic Church today. For daring to suggest the similarities that we have, I was trounced.

I hope you have to time to share with us what Lutherans and Catholics have in common (again, I’ve come to develop a greater respect for Luther today than I did when some Protestants [non-Lutheran Protestants] used him in an unrealistic representation).

I stated that Lutherans considered themselves member of the catholic (little “c”) Church. If I am wrong, then I invite your correction with humility.

Again, thank you for your contribution and I hope to see your response here.

 

[gcnuss]

2ndGen,

Thanks for your post.

In essence, I was basically attacked for daring to suggest that Lutherans didn’t protest The Catholic Church today. For daring to suggest the similarities that we have, I was trounced.

Well, there are Lutherans and then there are Lutherans. Some are still fighting as though we haven’t left the 16th century and some are truly interested in civil and useful dialog with our Catholic brothers and sisters.

At the time of the Reformation, it was not the reformers’ original intent to separate from the Church nor to change anything that was not in error. (We can get into long, long discussions about what may or may not have been in error). The basic form of worship (the Mass) was retained, with some parts being translated into the vernacular. The three ecumenical creeds (Apostles’, Nicene, and Athanasian) are included in the Lutheran Book of Concord and are used, albeit rarely in the case of the Athanasian.

There are continuing discussions between Lutherans and Roman Catholics which focus on improving understanding between us. I’m not in my study at the moment, so I can’t grab some of the publications that have come out of those discussions, but there is a real effort to build on our shared history and to overcome some of the misconceptions that have arisen in the past.

I don’t mean to gloss over the differences that we have to overcome if we are, one day, to be in communion with one another. And, there are certainly Lutherans out here who don’t think that should even be a dream. I have the experience of being taken to task by parishioners who think that I am not sufficiently “anti-Catholic” or, perhaps, too “pro-Catholic.” That is based largely on my stance that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ and that we should regard each other as such.

I hope this is helpful to you.

 

[2ndGen]

=gcnuss;3224057 Well, there are Lutherans and then there are Lutherans. Some are still fighting as though we haven’t left the 16th century and some are truly interested in civil and useful dialog with our Catholic brothers and sisters.

All my experiences with Lutherans have been very very pleasant. We’ve prayed together and worshipped together. I never had reason to dislike a Lutheran personally despite everything I “thought” I know about Luther.

At the time of the Reformation, it was not the reformers’ original intent to separate from the Church nor to change anything that was not in error. (We can get into long, long discussions about what may or may not have been in error).

Exactly, that’s what I tried to pass on. They were’nt “protesting” The Church to leave it. Those who would “protest” came after Luther. In fact, I used many of his quotes revering The Church to shut down the thread. After they read his own words, they all grew quiet and all I heard was crickets chirping after that.

The basic form of worship (the Mass) was retained, with some parts being translated into the vernacular. The three ecumenical creeds (Apostles’, Nicene, and Athanasian) are included in the Lutheran Book of Concord and are used, albeit rarely in the case of the Athanasian.

Proving that Lutherans do believe in the “catholic” community of Christians. Correct?

Do Lutherans consider themselves "c"atholic Christians?
(Of course not Catholic)

And would it be wrong to state that a Lutheran can be one of the definitions of what a Protestant is (non-Catholic Christian) and still be a catholic Christian member of the Christian Church?

There are continuing discussions between Lutherans and Roman Catholics which focus on improving understanding between us. I’m not in my study at the moment, so I can’t grab some of the publications that have come out of those discussions, but there is a real effort to build on our shared history and to overcome some of the misconceptions that have arisen in the past.

Some people didn’t like hearing that either when I brought that up. Both Catholic and Protestants. I call them Christian exclusionists that focus on the differences instead of the similarities or “goats”. I

I’m notorious for posting threads that bring up differences and word them in a way to challenge those that have those beliefs. Why? Because most of us (Catholics included) don’t articulate our faith or beliefs until they are challenged. Sometimes it has to be coxed out of us.

Forgive me “Pastor”, for I have sinned…

I don’t mean to gloss over the differences that we have to overcome if we are, one day, to be in communion with one another. And, there are certainly Lutherans out here who don’t think that should even be a dream. I have the experience of being taken to task by parishioners who think that I am not sufficiently “anti-Catholic” or, perhaps, too “pro-Catholic.” That is based largely on my stance that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ and that we should regard each other as such.

Amen to all that!

Yes we have differences, but I’ve prayed with Muslims and with Jews and I’m really great (if I do say so myself) in getting supposed Atheists to discuss God in a hopeful way.

I would never ask a man to leave his faith at the door with me. By all means, if a person is a better Christian as a Lutheran or a Pentecostal, “Vaya con Dios!”

I hope this is helpful to you.

Extremely helpful and edifying.

You’ve shamed me for the times that I’ve been too prideful and egotistical in my posts.

I hope you hold on to this converstation when you see some of my “in the heat of the moment” posts.

Pax.

 

[SIA]

Ok, but whoever said that she was equal to Jesus in her role in salvation?
I would definetly say that Catholic belief itself at least showcases this.
Would you say that Mary had no role in contributing to the salvation that was born from her womb? She said yes to God. Others said yes to God for various reasons as well and Scripture also calls them blessed.

Has anybody stated that one is saved through Mary? The Catholic church calls Mary Co-redemptrix and Co-mediatrix even though the term mediatrix is not in Catechism yet. That gives me a pretty clear picture of how Mary is being put into a parallel with Christ.

Where do non-Catholics get this idea of Mary having anything to do with saving Christians? The Catholic church of course!

I only hear that coming from Protestants. In my 38 years of life, I’ve never heard any Christian talk about this besides Protestants.
In all my years as a Roman Catholic, my parish priest exclaimed that Mary is a required element in the salvation formula. That is coming from a Catholic priest, not a Protestant.

 

[2ndGen]

SIA:
I’m going to attempt to separate our words here:

Ok, but whoever said that she was equal to Jesus in her role in salvation?
I would definetly say that Catholic belief itself at least showcases this.
Would you say that Mary had no role in contributing to the salvation that was born from her womb?

She said yes to God. Others said yes to God for various reasons as well and Scripture also calls them blessed.

Is that your answer to “Would you say that Mary had no role in contributing to the salvation that was born from her womb?”

Has anybody stated that one is saved through Mary?

The Catholic church calls Mary Co-redemptrix and Co-mediatrix even though the term mediatrix is not in Catechism yet. That gives me a pretty clear picture of how Mary is being put into a parallel with Christ.

So to you, those terms that Catholics have called Mary mean that we believe that we are saved by Mary?

Where do non-Catholics get this idea of Mary having anything to do with saving Christians? The Catholic church of course!

Ok, by all means…show what you think those terms literally mean in your own words.

I only hear that coming from Protestants. In my 38 years of life, I’ve never heard any Christian talk about this besides Protestants.

In all my years as a Roman Catholic, my parish priest exclaimed that Mary is a required element in the salvation formula. That is coming from a Catholic priest, not a Protestant.

Of course she is. Without her, we wouldn’t have Jesus. If you take her out of the picture as history has happened, you take Jesus out.

God chose her. It was His decision to make her an integral part of His plan for out Salvation. Jesus “had to” be born of a Virgin. Mary was that Virgin who God formed in Mary’s mother’s womb (don’t be surprised, he forms all of us in our mother’s wombs).

Of course we can’t expect a non-Universal Christian leader to believe that. If they did, they’d be Universal Christians instead of belonging to a sect that protests The Universal Christian Church.

They don’t even think that God chose her specifically, but randomly as if to say that if Mary had said no to God, He would’ve went on to the next available virgin.

 

[gcnuss]

2ndGen,

Do Lutherans consider themselves "c"atholic Christians?
(Of course not Catholic)

Many of us do. There are others, however, who would never describe themselves as “catholic,” let alone “Catholic.” As I understand it, we are a part of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church as we confess in the Creeds. That church consists of all true Christians, i.e., those who believe in the Triune God and in Jesus Christ as the fully human and fully divine Son of God sent for our salvation.

And would it be wrong to state that a Lutheran can be one of the definitions of what a Protestant is (non-Catholic Christian) and still be a catholic Christian member of the Christian Church?

We are non-Catholic Christians. Otherwise, we would be in union with the Bishop and Church of Rome. At the same time, we are catholic Christians - part of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church. I would hasten to add that while I speak of our not being in union with the Bishop and Church of Rome, I have great respect for Benedict XVI and for John Paul II.

 

[Burning4Christ]

Only a few times, around Christmas. Most Protestant denom’s do not believe Mary was sinless nor that she had been bodily assumed into Heaven. The belief by many Catholics (although not yet formalized by the Pope) that Mary is Co-Redemdtrix certainly wouldn’t go over well with Protestants.

-Mark

As a pentecostal, I believe in the virgin birth, and that mary was a devout follower of Jesus. I do not however accept any sort of divinity in her or that she was sinless. There was only one human who was sinless and the was Jesus. The issue most of us protostants have with the high regard the Catholic church, and especially the notion that she is the Co-Redemdtrix, is that none of it is biblical, infact the notion that Mary is to be hailed or that Mary is to be prayed to is in direct defience with scripture. 1 Timothy 2:5 says that “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ, Who gave himself as a ransom for all men - the testimony given in its proper time”

I also want to say though that just because i may disagree with Catholic Doctrine on many many levels, it does not change the fact that Catholics are Christians too. And I love all of you as jesus calls us to love one an other in the faith. It hurts my spirit that there is so much hatred on both sides of the coin for one an other. Although I may debate a catholic, That does not mean i hate them in anyway.

Be bless all of you,

Brendan Marchione

 

[2ndGen]

2ndGen,

Many of us do. There are others, however, who would never describe themselves as “catholic,” let alone “Catholic.” As I understand it, we are a part of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church as we confess in the Creeds. That church consists of all true Christians, i.e., those who believe in the Triune God and in Jesus Christ as the fully human and fully divine Son of God sent for our salvation.

We are non-Catholic Christians. Otherwise, we would be in union with the Bishop and Church of Rome. At the same time, we are catholic Christians - part of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church. I would hasten to add that while I speak of our not being in union with the Bishop and Church of Rome, I have great respect for Benedict XVI and for John Paul II.

Thank you for your answers and for your being patient with me Pastor.

God bless you.

 

[Lev23]

Why are you brining up “the world” and Jesus on a thread about “Mary” and “Protestants”?

I mean, granted, we’re all entitled to express our opinions,
but the reason for seperate threads
is to keep the conversation on one topic
so that the discussion cannot be taken off of it’s original point
and some semblance of understanding can take root.

To introduce an off-topic subject while responding to an on-topic subject
diverts attention to the thread’s original intent which in this case is to discuss if Protestants preach or talk about Mary.

You need to practice what you preach.

What I stated is a thousand times closer to the the topic at hand then some of your “youtube” video links you post in the middle of other threads. On top of that, one video link you posted has vulgar language and mocking of Christians going on.

 

[SIA]

I’m going to attempt to separate our words here:

She said yes to God. Others said yes to God for various reasons as well and Scripture also calls them blessed.

Is that your answer to “Would you say that Mary had no role in contributing to the salvation that was born from her womb?”

The Catholic church calls Mary Co-redemptrix and Co-mediatrix even though the term mediatrix is not in Catechism yet. That gives me a pretty clear picture of how Mary is being put into a parallel with Christ.

So to you, those terms that Catholics have called Mary mean that we believe that we are saved by Mary?

Where do non-Catholics get this idea of Mary having anything to do with saving Christians? The Catholic church of course!

Ok, by all means…show what you think those terms literally mean in your own words.

In all my years as a Roman Catholic, my parish priest exclaimed that Mary is a required element in the salvation formula. That is coming from a Catholic priest, not a Protestant.

Of course she is. Without her, we wouldn’t have Jesus. If you take her out of the picture as history has happened, you take Jesus out.

God chose her. It was His decision to make her an integral part of His plan for out Salvation. Jesus “had to” be born of a Virgin. Mary was that Virgin who God formed in Mary’s mother’s womb (don’t be surprised, he forms all of us in our mother’s wombs).

Of course we can’t expect a non-Universal Christian leader to believe that. If they did, they’d be Universal Christians instead of belonging to a sect that protests The Universal Christian Church.

They don’t even think that God chose her specifically, but randomly as if to say that if Mary had said no to God, He would’ve went on to the next available virgin.

With all due respect, you went through alot here to essentially say nothing.

 

[2ndGen]

You need to practice what you preach.

What I stated is a thousand times closer to the the topic at hand then some of your “youtube” video links you post in the middle of other threads. On top of that, one video link you posted has vulgar language and mocking of Christians going on.

Again…Romans 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?

My posting was directly topic related.

It was posted as a break in the heated exchanges.



I still love that video!

=============================================

But now, does your church preach or talk about Mary?

If you answered this question, could you refer me to the post in which you did?

 

[2ndGen]

With all due respect, you went through alot here to essentially say nothing.

With all due respect, 3,000,000,000 God lovin’ people disagree with you.



And it the topic is nothing, there’s a little red box at the top right corner with an “X” in the center. It’s a way for you to “not” be engaged in a topic that you consider nothing.

 

[jmcdzzz]

As a pentecostal, I believe in the virgin birth, and that mary was a devout follower of Jesus. I do not however accept any sort of divinity in her or that she was sinless. There was only one human who was sinless and the was Jesus.

I hope you are not equating sinlessness and divinity. Nowhere ever in the past, present, or future have Catholics ever claimed that Mary is Divine.

Remember that when first created, Adam and Eve were sinless too (Immaculately Created), yet they were not divine.

 

[2ndGen]

I hope you are not equating sinlessness and divinity. Nowhere ever in the past, present, or future have Catholics ever claimed that Mary is Divine.

Remember that when first created, Adam and Eve were sinless too (Immaculately Created), yet they were not divine.

 

[SIA]

With all due respect, 3,000,000,000 God lovin’ people disagree with you.



And it the topic is nothing, there’s a little red box at the top right corner with an “X” in the center. It’s a way for you to “not” be engaged in a topic that you consider nothing.

fair enough.