Protestants:Doesn't the Bible support the true presense?

[Realcatholicgk]

**
My fellow posters,

I don’t think we explored the subject of the true presense in the Bread and Wine enough bacause for some strange reason Protestants and others still can not see the truth as Jesus taught in the Scriptures.

So my question is: Protestants: Doesn’t the Bible support the the presense?

What do you think?**

 

[jean8]

It’s your issue. go ahead. what’s your view according to scripture. See 1 cor.11:23-34

God bless,
jean8

 

[Eucharisted]

You cannot continually press something to someone and expect them to eventually crack. But you can continually pray for someone and expect God to give them graces.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

[SIGN]Ok REALCATHOLIC[/SIGN] He realy does say that and I beleive in the blood of the grape,because it is biblical.They used the word Blood to discribe the juice of the grape. And I believe you are drinking( wine) The blood of the grape,and the bread which a baker makes is prayed over to represent the Body of Christ(Christos) The Annointed One.We do this to honor the Lord and remember his death on the cross where his body was broken for us and his royal blood fell to the ground for us,for the remission of sins.It’s an outward sign of beleiving,remembering,and fellowship. Nancy

 

[tqualey]

Hi Jean8,

I have to look all these items up - can’t keep a thing in my head!

It’s your issue. go ahead. what’s your view according to scripture. See 1 cor.11:23-34

God bless,
jean8

When I say it, I recalled it immediately… and, since this a particularly descriptive presentation from St. Paul… well…I thought I’d just print out the verse so we all could be bless by this Word of God.

**23 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread,
24
and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
25
In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
26
For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.
27
Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord.
28
A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup.
29
For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.
30
That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying.
31
If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment;
32
but since we are judged by (the) Lord, we are being disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.
33
Therefore, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another.
34
If anyone is hungry, he should eat at home, so that your meetings may not result in judgment. The other matters I shall set in order when I come. **

What has honestly amazed me with Protestants in this area - is that they are so eager to quote St. Paul - like somehow he had something different to say about the Eucharist then John 6 or the Synoptics on the Last Supper. But, I have not heard any of them really jumping into 1Cor - except to say: “It doesn’t mean that!”

I certainly hope some interested Protestant folks come by and share their thoughts on this.

God bless

 

[jean8]

**
My fellow posters,

I don’t think we explored the subject of the true presense in the Bread and Wine enough bacause for some strange reason Protestants and others still can not see the truth as Jesus taught in the Scriptures.

So my question is: Protestants: Doesn’t the Bible support the the presense?

What do you think?**

gk,
some protestants do not believe in the Real Presence. LCMS does. However , Others view this Sacrament as a symbol.

jean8

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

gk,
some protestants do not believe in the Real Presence. LCMS does. However , Others view this Sacrament as a symbol.

jean8

Hi Jean Question what’s LCMS mean? Love of Christ Nancy

 

[JonNC]

**
My fellow posters,

I don’t think we explored the subject of the true presense in the Bread and Wine enough bacause for some strange reason Protestants and others still can not see the truth as Jesus taught in the Scriptures.

So my question is: Protestants: Doesn’t the Bible support the the presense?

What do you think?**

Apology to the Augsburg Confession

we confess that we believe, that in the Lord’s Supper the body and blood of Christ are truly and substantially present, and are truly tendered, with those things which are seen, bread and wine, to those who receive the Sacrament. This belief we constantly defend, as the subject has been carefully examined and considered. For since Paul says, 1 Cor. 10:16, that the bread is the communion of the Lord’s body, etc., it would follow, if the Lord’s body were not truly present, that the bread is not a communion of the body, but only of the spirit of Christ. 55] And we have ascertained that not only the Roman Church affirms the bodily presence of Christ, but the Greek Church also both now believes, and formerly believed, the same. For the canon of the Mass among them testifies to this, in which the priest clearly prays that the bread may be changed and become the very body of Christ. And Vulgarius, who seems to us to be not a silly writer, says distinctly that bread is not a mere figure, but 56] is truly changed into flesh.

(Bolding is mine)
Jon

 

[JonNC]

Hi Jean Question what’s LCMS mean? Love of Christ Nancy

Lutheran Curch - Missouri Synod

 

[tqualey]

Hi, JonNC,

Thanks for the quote from the Augsburg Confession…

Apology to the Augsburg Confession
(Bolding is mine)
Jon

…but, I am blown away by the quote you have at the bottom of your post from now Pope Benedict XVI:
Even a theology oriented to the concept of succession, such as that which holds in the Catholic and in the Orthodox church, need not in any way deny the salvation-granting presence of the Lord in a Lutheran Lord’s Supper.
-Cardinal Ratzinger

I totally missed this - my idea is that you need to have a valid celebrant. To the best of my knowledge, Luther was not a Bishop and there were no ordained priests in the Lutheran group. So, there could not be the consecration of the common bread and wine into the Body, Blood, Human Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ because of the lack of a valid minister.

Can anyone bring me up t speed on what Cardinal Ratzinger means by this?

Thanks

God bless

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Apology to the Augsburg Confession

(Bolding is mine) Hello How long does this life saving salvation last? Do you have to keep renewing it every week?Or is it for good? You know I have received when I was younger so I must be covered Right? Thank You Nancy
Jon

 

[JonNC]

Hi, JonNC,

Thanks for the quote from the Augsburg Confession…

…but, I am blown away by the quote you have at the bottom of your post from now Pope Benedict XVI:
Even a theology oriented to the concept of succession, such as that which holds in the Catholic and in the Orthodox church, need not in any way deny the salvation-granting presence of the Lord in a Lutheran Lord’s Supper.
-Cardinal Ratzinger

I totally missed this - my idea is that you need to have a valid celebrant. To the best of my knowledge, Luther was not a Bishop and there were no ordained priests in the Lutheran group. So, there could not be the consecration of the common bread and wine into the Body, Blood, Human Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ because of the lack of a valid minister.

Can anyone bring me up t speed on what Cardinal Ratzinger means by this?

Thanks

God bless

Tom,
I found it here, paragraph 107.
usccb.org/seia/koinonia.shtml

Jon

 

[JonNC]

nancy_dalrymple:
Nancy,
I would first respond by asking rhetorically, “why would one not want to receive it every week, or more often?” But rhetoric aside, Christ states we should take of it often. My need for forgiveness of sins is constant and ongoing as I am a sinner. I also go to hear His word, confess and receive absolution, etc. every week. As part of my sanctification, I seek our the means of Grace He so generously provides for me.

Jon

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

JonNC Here are some scripture proves that salvation is ment a little differnt to me.All flesh shall see the salvation of God Luke:3:6 Salvation to everyone who beleives Rom:1:16,Now is the day of salvation 2Cor:6:2 The gospel of your salvation Eph:1:13,Salvation through prayer Phil:1:19, 2:12, Salvation perfect through sufferings Heb:2:10, Of which salvation the Prophets have 1Peter:1:10 Common salvation Jude:3,Salvation to our God Rev:7:10according to his mercy he saved us Titus:3:5 Woman are saved through child bearing 1Tim:2:15 and the list goes on Jon love of Christ Nancy PS I had 4 children:thumbsup:

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

JonNC Here are some scripture proves that salvation is ment a little differnt to me.All flesh shall see the salvation of God Luke:3:6 Salvation to everyone who beleives Rom:1:16,Now is the day of salvation 2Cor:6:2 The gospel of your salvation Eph:1:13,Salvation through prayer Phil:1:19, 2:12, Salvation perfect through sufferings Heb:2:10, Of which salvation the Prophets have 1Peter:1:10 Common salvation Jude:3,Salvation to our God Rev:7:10according to his mercy he saved us Titus:3:5 Woman are saved through child bearing 1Tim:2:15 and the list goes on Jon love of Christ Nancy PS I had 4 children:thumbsup: It took me over 10 minutes to write this and there is proberly going to be duplicates, because they have to read it first.

 

[Cinette]

As I was scouting around I came across this thread and “saw” some familiar “faces”

The subject interests me and I copied this page on my desktop to read later when I have the time.

I noticed someone who was on another thread and who is Lutheran and believes in the “Real Presence”. I was pleased about that but have a comment to make.

I once met a Lutheran Minister and he said to me that they believe in the Real Presence only at the moment the communicant receives the bread. They use ordinary bread and what is left over they feed to the birds. At the time I was in another person’s home and didn’t want to start a discussion which might get a little “enthusiastic” so I left it.

We might let go on the threads because we are all anonymous but in society be behave ourselves! LOL.

Would anyone like to comment?

Blessings
Cinette

 

[With_Questions]

**
My fellow posters,

I don’t think we explored the subject of the true presense in the Bread and Wine enough bacause for some strange reason Protestants and others still can not see the truth as Jesus taught in the Scriptures.

So my question is: Protestants: Doesn’t the Bible support the the presense?

What do you think?**

I don’t know.

It all depends on what the meaning of “is” is.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

You cannot continually press something to someone and expect them to eventually crack. But you can continually pray for someone and expect God to give them graces.

**Hi Eucharisted,

I totally agree. St Augustine’s Mother, St Monica and Fr Corapi’s Mother both prayed for them for 20 years. I personally have only been praying for the conversions of all false believers for about 10 years. Hopefully God gives me 10 more years so we can get rid of all the conuntefeit religions and their false beliefs!

God Bless**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

It’s your issue. go ahead. what’s your view according to scripture. See 1 cor.11:23-34

God bless,
jean8

**Hi Jean,

With your, believing in the real presence, this is a non-issue isn’t it? The onlyreal issue is why you don’t come and join Jesus’ real church and actually be able to Jesus really present in the celebration of the last Supper?

As He instructed, Jesus can only be present in the communion prepared by one of the successors of His Apostles. Not by anyone who “believes” he knows the “magical” words needed to perform this miracle! Jesus doesn’t work that way. He will reject them at judgment and has clearely stated so many times in the bible.

For the other Protestants that do not believe, The important part of what Jean8 refered to in 1 Corinthians is actually verses 11:27-34 which talks about partaking of the Supper Unworthily “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be answerable for the body and blood of the Lord. Examine yourselves, and only then eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For all who eat and drink* without discerning the body,* eat and drink judgement against themselves. For this reason many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.* But if we judged ourselves, we would not be judged. But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined* so that we may not be condemned along with the world.”

Verse 29: " For all who eat and drink* without discerning the body,* eat and drink judgement against themselves" clearely tells you that you must recognize that Jesus is truly present or receive judgment against yourself, doesn’t it?**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

[SIGN]Ok REALCATHOLIC[/SIGN] He realy does say that and I beleive in the blood of the grape, because it is biblical.They used the word Blood to discribe the juice of the grape. And I believe you are drinking (wine) The blood of the grape, and the bread which a baker makes is prayed over to represent the Body of Christ(Christos) The Annointed One.We do this to honor the Lord and remember his death on the cross where his body was broken for us and his royal blood fell to the ground for us,for the remission of sins.It’s an outward sign of beleiving,remembering,and fellowship. Nancy

**Hi nancy,

Nancy, Nancy Nancy, why do I wish your name was Stella? Very nice words. However sweetheart, they can’t come close to saving your soul! It is an outward sign of our salvation Period! Sigh,and you were doing so good! Then you stumbled on your Protestant Lies! “…is prayed over to represent the Body of Christ(Christos)” and " It’s an outward sign of beleiving, remembering, and fellowship"

Our Lord and Savior explained that it “is His Body” not represents His body! He stated it was “His Blood” not the blood of grapes! “That is biblical.” We eat the Bread/Host which is His Body and we drink His Blood which previously was the fermented juice of grapes until the Priest changed them both into Jesus’ Body and Blood!

Jesus cautioned that if you call Him a liar and do not believe Him you can not obtain eternal life. He stated that your spirit is dead!That being said however, I must agree with the Protestants that state that Jesus is not physically present at their services. They are correct!

The Blessed sacrament is a paradosis that Jesus handed down only to his followers. He instituted it at the Last Supper. He is the one who set it up so that it would reflect the unity in the church that He established. Without the real presense there is no real church, so I must agree with the Protestants that say, in their case, it is only a symbol. Their entire belife system is only a counterfeit representation of the real church anyway! With imitation beliefs and practices :bighanky: ~ Poor Protestants.

Do you know why we call the bread a "Host”? The term, used to refer to the consecrated bread, comes from the Latin word hostia, which means ‘victim’.

Jesus Christ is really present in the consecrated bread and wine on our altars. The Mass is a re-presentation of the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross. We are joined with Him at His death. Therefore, Jesus is the victim of sacrifice and we call the bread the host/victim to help us remember that it is no longer bread but the Real Presence of our Lord Jesus Christ given to us to strengthen and help us on the journey to Heaven.

I pray that every Protestant gets to partake in the real body and blood of christ. We can’t permit you to take our communion. Do you even know why?

Since, many Protestants do not believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist as we do, and they do not discern or recognize that Jesus’ body is present under the appearance of bread and wine. We would be allowing them to eat and drink judgment upon themselves. The prohibtion is actually very charitable but, unfortunately, it is usually seen as a rejection.
Evidence of this interpretation of this passage is supported by St. Justin the Martyr :“We call this food Eucharist; and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true…” -Justin Martyr -FIRST APOLOGY, 66,20–(150 A.D.)

You can believe what you want, that is called free will. But if you don’t believe the real, uncorrupted, undistorted teachings of Jesus’ one holy and apolostic church, you would damn yourselves by receiving His Body and Blood in an unworthy manner.

God Bless**