Protestants evangelizing in Catholic countries

[ChristinaM]

Hi all,

I wasn’t sure where to put this since I am so new - but if it is inappropriate please feel free to move it, mods.

I was born and raised in the “Bible Belt” and as a result most of my friends are Protestant. Some of them are Baptist and very involved with mission work, and I often get solicitations via Facebook to join a “support group” or donate. One friend of mine was going to Italy through Campus Crusade for Christ and asked me to donate money for a mission. Now I admit I don’t know anything about how many young people in Italy actually practice their faith, but I did NOT want to give her money to preach Evangelicalism in a predominantly Catholic country. I politely declined her request, but I did find it somewhat offensive.

Another friend created a group to support a Baptist mission in the Philippines. I visited the mission’s website and it constantly talked about “bringing the message of Christ to people who do not know Him.” I find this very presumptuous considering that the Philippines are so overwhelmingly Catholic and most people will have heard of Jesus even if their level of education is not great.

Am I being uncharitable and un-Christian in not wanting to support this? Is anyone familiar with these types of missions? I get the impression that they are going over there to spread their particular brand of Evangelical Christianity. I highly doubt they are going to tell young people “Now that you have decided to live your life for Jesus, go deeper into your Catholic faith.”

My second question is - do you think the local bishops and cardinals are aware of these missions? It seems like predominantly Catholic countries are being “targeted.” Is there any kind of organized effort to counteract these missions with Catholic catechesis? If so, I would like to donate or support it in some way.

 

[vee8]

I think you were correct in not donating your money to organizations who are Protestant and trying to evangelize Catholic countries! Tell them instead of giving money you will say a rosary and/or ask them if they would like to donate to Catholic missions.

 

[Stratiotes]

I like that last response - ask them to support “your” mission organization. It would probably initiate some profitable discussion as well.

On the other side of the coin though - I wish I could remember the reference - St. Paul talked about how some people were preaching the gospel for all the wrong reasons. He did not like it but, in the end, came to the conclusion that he did not really care why they preached it, so long as it was preached.

I guess the caveate in this case is that our separated brethren are not offering the full gospel but only part of it in exchange for the full gospel. They wish to convince millionaires to exchange their wealth for wooden nickels. We need to make the millionaires wise.

 

[leonie]

I think not only should you refuse to fund these missions, you should challenge them about what they are doing. And, then, you should send that same amount of money to a Catholic mission or Church in that area.

 

[EsclavoDeCristo]

I think you are totally right in not giving them money. Those protestants are the same ones we’d have to come behind and clean up after when they came to Honduras and thoroughly confused and mis-informed people on the faith.

 

[ChristinaM]

Thanks to everyone for your great replies. I like the suggestion to give money to Catholic missions. I have been donating mostly closer to home but this makes me realize the need for evangelization abroad.

I wish I would have said something to my friend when she solicited me. I feel like it was a missed opportunity. I didn’t want to make her angry since she is a long-time friend. I did find it a bit tactless because she knows I’m a Catholic.

On the other side of the coin though - I wish I could remember the reference - St. Paul talked about how some people were preaching the gospel for all the wrong reasons. He did not like it but, in the end, came to the conclusion that he did not really care why they preached it, so long as it was preached.

I guess the caveate in this case is that our separated brethren are not offering the full gospel but only part of it in exchange for the full gospel.

This is the only reason why I even felt slightly guilty about not giving - I do believe that people need to hear the Gospel no matter what the motives of the people preaching it. But I don’t think it really serves the unevangelized to only hear half-truths, KWIM? Especially if they are telling untruths about a faith that these people have practiced for generations, poorly catechized as they may be.

EsclavoDeCristo - thanks also for the links in your sig line. Missioners of Christ sounds like a GREAT organization. I wish the churches down here had something like that for the youth. I forgot also to mention that my sister went on a mission trip to Mexico last summer with her Baptist boyfriend. They were mostly doing construction work and were not involved with evangelization. Still it bothers me because it’s another sign of these missions “targeting” Catholic countries. I pointed out that our diocese sends college students to our Mexican mission church every year, but she wasn’t interested, sadly.

 

[mark_a]

Hi all,

I wasn’t sure where to put this since I am so new - but if it is inappropriate please feel free to move it, mods.

I was born and raised in the “Bible Belt” and as a result most of my friends are Protestant. Some of them are Baptist and very involved with mission work, and I often get solicitations via Facebook to join a “support group” or donate. One friend of mine was going to Italy through Campus Crusade for Christ and asked me to donate money for a mission. Now I admit I don’t know anything about how many young people in Italy actually practice their faith, but I did NOT want to give her money to preach Evangelicalism in a predominantly Catholic country. I politely declined her request, but I did find it somewhat offensive.

Another friend created a group to support a Baptist mission in the Philippines. I visited the mission’s website and it constantly talked about “bringing the message of Christ to people who do not know Him.” I find this very presumptuous considering that the Philippines are so overwhelmingly Catholic and most people will have heard of Jesus even if their level of education is not great.

Am I being uncharitable and un-Christian in not wanting to support this? Is anyone familiar with these types of missions? I get the impression that they are going over there to spread their particular brand of Evangelical Christianity. I highly doubt they are going to tell young people “Now that you have decided to live your life for Jesus, go deeper into your Catholic faith.”

My second question is - do you think the local bishops and cardinals are aware of these missions? It seems like predominantly Catholic countries are being “targeted.” Is there any kind of organized effort to counteract these missions with Catholic catechesis? If so, I would like to donate or support it in some way.

This reminds me of an NPR piece about Iraqi (Chaldean Catholic) Christians being converted to “bible Christianity”.

I don’t know much about the Chaldean Church, but it seems pretty presumptuous to me to think these folks with a 2000 year old unbroken tradition of Christianity living in the mouth of hell, need to be converted to anything.

Follow evryone elses’ advice here and contribute to Catholic missionaries whatever you considered giving to your “bible only” missionary friends.

Or ask them if they would consider giving to a Catholic missionary.

 

[ChristinaM]

This reminds me of an NPR piece about Iraqi (Chaldean Catholic) Christians being converted to “bible Christianity”.

I don’t know much about the Chaldean Church, but it seems pretty presumptuous to me to think these folks with a 2000 year old unbroken tradition of Christianity living in the mouth of hell, need to be converted to anything.

I remember this story too…the Evangelicals basically showed up in Iraq, expecting a den of heathenry, and were gobsmacked when they found a Christianity even older than the one they practice.

Thanks again for the advice. Now I’ll know what to do the next time I’m solicited for one of these mission trips.

 

[puzzleannie]

Hi all,
Another friend created a group to support a Baptist mission in the Philippines. I visited the mission’s website and it constantly talked about “bringing the message of Christ to people who do not know Him.” I find this very presumptuous considering that the Philippines are so overwhelmingly Catholic and most people will have heard of Jesus even if their level of education is not great.
. . .
Am My second question is - do you think the local bishops and cardinals are aware of these missions? It seems like predominantly Catholic countries are being “targeted.” Is there any kind of organized effort to counteract these missions with Catholic catechesis? If so, I would like to donate or support it in some way.

I get these requests all the time, and I always respond, sorry we give all our support to the Catholic Church in that country (we do, through many sources) since it is a Catholic country and we are Catholic. They honestly often simply do not know that is true or do not realize their denomination is (sometimes viciously) anti-Catholic and truly thinks we do not know Christ.

yes the bishops in those countries are very much aware of the problem and have many initiatives to respond to the problem.

I also have worked with Catholic missionaries who have to do damage control after one of these evangelical or pentecostal mission hurricanes has hit a Mexican, Guatemalan or Peruvian village and attacked and nearly destroyed their culture, so tied as it is to the Church. They even sometimes force them to change the name of the village, which is usually the same saint name as the local parish.

 

[SteveGC]

This topic really hits close to home for me.

For me, it happens to be my father and stepmother who are Baptist and quite involved in mission work. I am a recent convert to the Catholic faith. To add to the problem, my dad is one of the Baptist convention’s leaders in Men’s Ministry. My stepmother leads large group Bible studies. Both of them subscribe to the typical Baptist anti-Catholic sentiment, yet they are obviously Christ-loving, warm, genuine people. Just misinformed and rigid in their understanding. Can’t really blame them for not yet knowing the Truth. But they are VERY influential people - and this troubles me because of their anti-Catholic message.

Tough for me to be at ease about their mission work too. They go on about 3 trips a year. Honduras, Kenya, Algeria, Malaysia etc. My dad often asks if I would like to go, and I respectfully decline. I don’t dare tell him that I am seeking ways to serve in mission work through the Catholic Church. I think (no, hope) that these Baptist missions are done first and foremost in a Christ-centered, charitable way, with a noble objective of simple Gospel spreading. And so, I focus on that aspect when it troubles me, and that helps.

But I can’t deny I also think there is an ulterior motive to “evangelize” and convert Catholics. I sometimes think, wow they’re really helping these people build new structures, fix utility problems such as water and energy issues, etc. etc. Then I soon realized that all this labor was actually not so much building homes and fixing village-wide problems, but rather building ‘churches’ and ‘seminaries’ for a future Baptist presence in the area. And this REALLY troubles me. I know it’s not ALL they do, but when I hear the stories my dad tells me after a trip, this is the type of physical work they’ve usually done. Add to that their evangelization, Bible-study, men’s ministry work, etc., and now I really have a bad taste in my mouth about it all.

I’d like to read about St Paul’s experience (which mark posted). Perhaps I need not worry so much about it, and spend more energy supporting Catholic causes in these areas (and here in the U.S. as well).

Worth mentioning that I do pray for my parents conversion, not only for their sake, but also because I truly believe they are the type of people that can draw ALOT of anti-Catholics into the Catholic faith. Catholicism needs so many of these energetic, Christ-loving protestants to come home!

Thanks for the original post, Christina

-Steve

 

[Stratiotes]

The Paul reference from Philippians chapter 1 (RSV):

Phl 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will.
Phl 1:16 The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel;
Phl 1:17 the former proclaim Christ out of partisanship, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment.
Phl 1:18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in that I rejoice.

The problem is of context - because here he seems to be referring to essentially the same gospel being preached - just for different reasons. But, at another time and circumstance, there were some preaching a different gospel. For the Galations he had some rather harsh words for such people:

Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel–
Gal 1:7 not that there is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed.

 

[po18guy]

Am I being uncharitable and un-Christian in not wanting to support this? Is anyone familiar with these types of missions? I get the impression that they are going over there to spread their particular brand of Evangelical Christianity. I highly doubt they are going to tell young people “Now that you have decided to live your life for Jesus, go deeper into your Catholic faith.”

Not at all! What these well meaning brothers and sisters are accomplishing is to have local Christians more deeply involved in less Christianity. There is no Eucharist, less Sacraments, less of everything. They replace substance with zeal. I guess jumping and sweating to loud music is their path to Sainthood?!?

My second question is - do you think the local bishops and cardinals are aware of these missions? It seems like predominantly Catholic countries are being “targeted.” Is there any kind of organized effort to counteract these missions with Catholic catechesis? If so, I would like to donate or support it in some way.

They are very aware of the predatory practices of these tissue-paper theology “churches”. Contact your Archdiocese for links to efforts to stem the attacks.

 

[Marangelica]

Thank you so much for sharing this post Christina. I’m glad I don’t feel alone.

Seperate issue but not really- I decided to join a Bible study in my local Catholic Church. I was very excited to participate and couldn’t wait till the meeting.

When I arrived, the lady leading the group was openly- Catholic but… made it very clear that she did not “agree” with a lot. Of the group of like 6 ladies… 3 were not Catholic. Everytime I made a comment- like for example, that I felt that I had survived much in my life because of my Faith and because of the Church that Jesus Christ founded, she would immediately turn to the non Catholic person in the group and apologize. She insisted over and over that we might not all agree but that we were there to study the Bible etc. One of the non Catholic ladies went on a bent about how “God has no religion” (claiming to have been a faithful Catholic that even taught Catechism). I felt… upset in a very real way. I guess that sounds silly. But I had my mind set up for a Catholic group that would help me grow in my Faith yet that isn’t what I got. Then I felt bad for not wanting to participate in this group in the future. Like somehow I should be playing nice and I refuse. As another example I mentioned to them John 6 and explained that I felt it was very clear that the Eucharist is the body of Christ and that he that does not eat his flesh does not have him within him. Again she immediately said well you know- the Eucharist didn’t start until 1200’s or some crazy date- I didn’t stop her because she was clearly the leader and I didn’t want to fight with her. She claimed over and over that she was very Catholic and even had the Catechism there on her table with a book from the Pope. I’m thinking … I don’t get this. But then again I felt bad - like you said- for somehow not going along.

I don’t know. I think I will go again because I want to give her a couple cd’s I have- Scott Hahns and one on the Holy Eucharist but I doubt she’ll hear them. I guess I won’t continue if she continues apologizing for my statements. Then again, maybe I’m the one that’s wrong. Am I wrong for refusing to go along with this attitude of it’s all good?

 

[JudieK]

Thank you so much for sharing this post Christina. I’m glad I don’t feel alone.

Seperate issue but not really- I decided to join a Bible study in my local Catholic Church. I was very excited to participate and couldn’t wait till the meeting.

When I arrived, the lady leading the group was openly- Catholic but… made it very clear that she did not “agree” with a lot. Of the group of like 6 ladies… 3 were not Catholic. Everytime I made a comment- like for example, that I felt that I had survived much in my life because of my Faith and because of the Church that Jesus Christ founded, she would immediately turn to the non Catholic person in the group and apologize. She insisted over and over that we might not all agree but that we were there to study the Bible etc. One of the non Catholic ladies went on a bent about how “God has no religion” (claiming to have been a faithful Catholic that even taught Catechism). I felt… upset in a very real way. I guess that sounds silly. But I had my mind set up for a Catholic group that would help me grow in my Faith yet that isn’t what I got. Then I felt bad for not wanting to participate in this group in the future. Like somehow I should be playing nice and I refuse. As another example I mentioned to them John 6 and explained that I felt it was very clear that the Eucharist is the body of Christ and that he that does not eat his flesh does not have him within him. Again she immediately said well you know- the Eucharist didn’t start until 1200’s or some crazy date- I didn’t stop her because she was clearly the leader and I didn’t want to fight with her. She claimed over and over that she was very Catholic and even had the Catechism there on her table with a book from the Pope. I’m thinking … I don’t get this. But then again I felt bad - like you said- for somehow not going along.

I don’t know. I think I will go again because I want to give her a couple cd’s I have- Scott Hahns and one on the Holy Eucharist but I doubt she’ll hear them. I guess I won’t continue if she continues apologizing for my statements. Then again, maybe I’m the one that’s wrong. Am I wrong for refusing to go along with this attitude of it’s all good?

No no no… you should not participate in this study, or at least stay there to be the voice of reason. I don’t know, but this leader is not representing her Catholic faith and should not be the leader of a Catholic Bible Study. I was told that a priest should be present for Catholic Bible studies… I could be wrong. That is why is is dangerous for Catholics to participate in ecumenical Bible Studies… we just don’t see it the same way. We are not free to interpret things however we want. You may want to talk to the pastor about this. If your pastor dismisses it, I would quit the group, and perhaps think about changing parishes. I don’t know… but someone has to do something!

 

[Marangelica]

Judie K:

Thank you so much for the idea to keep going - if only to balance her out! I decided to continue going to serve as a balance to her “teachings”.

For example at my second study (this past week) she went on and on about Tradition and how Tradition doesn’t save etc.

The ladies there look up to her as if she knows everything about the Faith. I just answered and said that I "supported her stance that Tradition certainly does not replace faith. But truly are they opposite? I don’t see them as being one or the other- I follow many traditions but when I do so with my daughters I give them the Biblical basis for our believing what we believe. I also reminded her of the passage where Jesus tells his followers re the Pharisees- to “Do whatever they tell you! For they sit at Moses seat” - Do what they tell you- but not what they do because they preach but they don’t do etc…

Now like a good Catholic I didn’t know where exactly it was in the Bible ! But I got the point across.

Anyway, I know she thinks I’m fanatical- that’s ok!

Thank you again for the suggestion.

 

[EsclavoDeCristo]

Judie K:

Thank you so much for the idea to keep going - if only to balance her out! I decided to continue going to serve as a balance to her “teachings”.

For example at my second study (this past week) she went on and on about Tradition and how Tradition doesn’t save etc.

The ladies there look up to her as if she knows everything about the Faith. I just answered and said that I "supported her stance that Tradition certainly does not replace faith. But truly are they opposite? I don’t see them as being one or the other- I follow many traditions but when I do so with my daughters I give them the Biblical basis for our believing what we believe. I also reminded her of the passage where Jesus tells his followers re the Pharisees- to “Do whatever they tell you! For they sit at Moses seat” - Do what they tell you- but not what they do because they preach but they don’t do etc…

Now like a good Catholic I didn’t know where exactly it was in the Bible ! But I got the point across.

Anyway, I know she thinks I’m fanatical- that’s ok!

Thank you again for the suggestion.

I think it would be great if you kept going. You could offer some sort of tape / cd that further explains certain topics such as tradition. Fr. Corapi is a great catechist and has many tapes out there. I would also recommend you do a search for “Bible Christian Society” on a web search. Their stuff is free and you can download it and burn it to cd.

 

[EsclavoDeCristo]

I get these requests all the time, and I always respond, sorry we give all our support to the Catholic Church in that country (we do, through many sources) since it is a Catholic country and we are Catholic. They honestly often simply do not know that is true or do not realize their denomination is (sometimes viciously) anti-Catholic and truly thinks we do not know Christ.

yes the bishops in those countries are very much aware of the problem and have many initiatives to respond to the problem.

I** also have worked with Catholic missionaries who have to do damage control after one of these evangelical or pentecostal mission hurricanes has hit** a Mexican, Guatemalan or Peruvian village and attacked and nearly destroyed their culture, so tied as it is to the Church. They even sometimes force them to change the name of the village, which is usually the same saint name as the local parish.

#1 That is a great recommendation on how to respond. It is straight forward, to the point and honest. Thanks!

#2 I totally agree with you about the damage control. When I was in Honduras, we would travel to remote villages where priests sometimes could only go once or twice a year. Many times the people had been very confused by protestants who had come promising ‘free stuff’ in exchange for their participation in their church. Luckily, the Church has such a long history in this country even those who were now ‘protestant’ had a huge respect and love for Mary and for the Eucharist. Many times, all it took was someone visiting with them and explaining the faith in order to get them back into the Church.

 

[po18guy]

This reminds me of an NPR piece about Iraqi (Chaldean Catholic) Christians being converted to “bible Christianity”.

I don’t know much about the Chaldean Church, but it seems pretty presumptuous to me to think these folks with a 2000 year old unbroken tradition of Christianity living in the mouth of hell, need to be converted to anything.

Follow evryone elses’ advice here and contribute to Catholic missionaries whatever you considered giving to your “bible only” missionary friends.

Or ask them if they would consider giving to a Catholic missionary.

You will note that Chaldean unity will be destroyed by the error of sola scriptura, with the resulting increase in persecution and subsequent flight from their own lands. Since"bible Christianity" is fairly clearly identified with America, this can only be a bad thing for them. Talk about which road is paved with good intentions…

 

[gr8full]

I’d just like to comment on the original post.
I don’t think you’re wrong to not give. Giving should be done because you feel compelled by the Holy Spirit (just my opinion) and not just because someone ask.
As a side note, I can say that I have grown up Southern Baptist, and am now in RCIA. I have had friends go on mission trips to a lot of heavily Catholic populated countries. I am sure it happens, but the people I know go to share the gospel of Jesus, not to take anyone away from the Catholic church. Sadly, those who do leave the church do so ( again this is only my experience and not meant to be a generalization) because of a lack of knowledge. They don’t understand their faith or why they are a part of the Catholic Church. They just know they were born into the church and their faith was never developed. That seems to be the largest Catholic population that the missionaries I have talked to are reaching.
I don’t think anyone who is educated about their faith would be swayed by a missionary.
Again, just my opinion. I am sure there are those who do not care to learn about the Church and just live in ignorance and are fine with it who want to take people away from the church. But not everyone.

 

[Stratiotes]

I would agree that the majority of those who leave the church are people who do not truly understand their faith. So it is difficult to say which is worse - lukewarm Catholic or on-fire Jesus-freak Baptist… On-fire Jesus-freak Catholic would be ideal but that seems to be, sadly, very uncommon.