Protestants, Explain this Verse

[look3467]

That’s a beautiful post, look3467.

I’m only sorry to see that all this hasn’t led you to the one true Church.

Aaaahhh…but my friend, we are part of the true church, you and I!

We are both members of the same body, though you may be an eye and I a hand.

We both strive to hold the body in good standing, that is in testimony.

What is… in you is the spirit of Christ reflected in your daily living as a good and loving person.

The eye of the body has a role to play just as the hand the body and together we strive to keep the body safe from evil influences.

So does it matter to which belief we espouse as long as Godly love is exercised?

Is Godly love divided? I would say not! For Godly love is the same no matter where one is a believer or not.

Have you met some folks who never go to church, yet they display good moral values and are loving people?

I have, many times.

As a matter of fact, I’ve compared them to some of my own church goers and found the some church goers wanting.

I don’t force my own conciseness on others simply because they might not be ready.

Let me give you some examples of what I mean;

Let’s take for example eating of meat offered to idols: Here is God’s view of it:1Co 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

But let’s say that I were spiritually mature to understand that verse above, I wouldn’t have any problem eating the meat as per the next verse:

1Co 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;

But, let’s say that someone who believes that meat offered to idols is sin against God and are weak in spirit, saw me eat of that meat, I would be guilty of offending them.

1Co 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

For the sake of offending my brother I refrain from eating meat offered to idols.

How does that attitude compare to demanding that everybody believe as we do?

You see my point?

A good “eye” in the body of Christ sees to maintain good site for the whole, while a good hand of the same body maintains to do the work needed to support the whole of the body.

Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

We can reach the world for God in many different areas, places, and conditions if we are flexible enough to gain them via the love of God which is in us.

And if, we happen to be a catholic, then invite them to the Catholic Church, and if a Baptist do the same like wise.

The object? Is to bring them to God’s knowledge.

Paul said it best: 1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Just a note on the last words, “saving some” is God’s work, the becoming is our work.

So, forgive me if I don’t become a member of the Catholic Church, yet, I glory in being a member of the body of Christ.

Blessing’s, AJ

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Sorry I could not get back to you sooner, I had to race.You are right about the teachings of RCC. My question was more for OTCA, because she is always posting, there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. This kind of prejudice offends me because it is no were in Scripture or what John Paul II had to say!/B]

That’s because I follow what Jesus said. For hundreds of centuries, they preached there is no salvation outside the Catholic church. Wished they’d go back to that original state of mind. I myself do believe this to be true.
Christ would NEVER have intended to produce 30,000 denominations with contradicting beliefs. And since there were only Catholics around for the first 1500 years of Christianity, I’ll stick to that theory.

 

[racing59]

That’s because I follow what Jesus said. For hundreds of centuries, they preached there is no salvation outside the Catholic church. Wished they’d go back to that original state of mind. I myself do believe this to be true.
Christ would NEVER have intended to produce 30,000 denominations with contradicting beliefs. And since there were only Catholics around for the first 1500 years of Christianity, I’ll stick to that theory.

The Catholic Church has been around for a long time is true. To say it is the only Christian Church that’s been around is false. There are Messianic Jewish Secs that have been around just as long. If you believe the Catholic Church is your Church great, I have no problem wit that. I have a problem with people being so narrow minded.I have close family members that were Christian and have died. According to you they went to Hell, because they weren’t Catholic, there for they are not Saved! Please show me were in the Bible this Scriptures is of what you say?:tsktsk:

 

[distracted]

OTCA, you are so full of it. I could pull 10 commentaries - Catholic and Protestant alike - that have no trouble with this verse (or, more importantly, the context around it) at all.

Where in the heck do you get these notions?

from people who think that Jesus did absolutely EVERYTHING for us (which He kind of did, but He doesn’t force us to stop sinning)…

those who believe that we can just believe in Him and get into Heavne “free”… without any effort

and there are many who believe this… even when they SAY they don’t… Even Catholics live like they believe this kind of hting…

 

[distracted]

The Catholic Church has been around for a long time is true. To say it is the only Christian Church that’s been around is false. There are Messianic Jewish Secs that have been around just as long. If you believe the Catholic Church is your Church great, I have no problem wit that. I have a problem with people being so narrow minded.I have close family members that were Christian and have died. According to you they went to Hell, because they weren’t Catholic, there for they are not Saved! Please show me were in the Bible this Scriptures is of what you say?:tsktsk:

the Catholic Church does NOT teach that those outside the Church go to hell…

It may be more difficult for them to make it into Heaven… more time in Purgatory and all that… but they cn make it… (and such things only God knows for sure anyway…)

It is NOT impossible and i don’t know of many Catholic who say such things…
i dare say many “Protestants” will make it before some Catholics… (though, again, God knows…)

All i know is that i myself couldn’t seem to overcome certain weaknesses until i became fully Catholic (began praying rosary, etc…)

 

[distracted]

That’s because I follow what Jesus said. For hundreds of centuries, they preached there is no salvation outside the Catholic church. Wished they’d go back to that original state of mind. I myself do believe this to be true.
Christ would NEVER have intended to produce 30,000 denominations with contradicting beliefs. And since there were only Catholics around for the first 1500 years of Christianity, I’ll stick to that theory.

but technically, there is no such thing as a Christian who is protestant…

if he believes in Jesus and reads His words and does them, he is Catholic…

so he is NOT outside the Church (even though he would die at the thought of being called Catholic)…

 

[distracted]

It is also fair. If (when the time comes) Hugh Hefner has a deathbed conversion, is it fair that he goes to Heaven alongside a missionary who dies at the same time, whoworked in terrible conditions and was martyred for the faith?

i believe the Church teaches that in this case, if he had never believed or been baptized, he could go directly to heaven… COULD… not sure if the Church teaches that he definitely wOULD … ??

but i believe the Church teaches that if you die right after baptism (sacramental) that you go to Heaven… directly (??) because you have no time to commit further sin…

 

[distracted]

OK, I am Catholic, but was once an (evangelical) Protestant, so here is my take.

The verse says that we will be judged before Christ on what we did in our [natural] bodies. Where does it say that the prayers of others will ameliorate that judgement?

                                                                            ICXC NIKA,

                                                                                        GEddie

who said they do?

 

[racing59]

the Catholic Church does NOT teach that those outside the Church go to hell…

It may be more difficult for them to make it into Heaven… more time in Purgatory and all that… but they cn make it… (and such things only God knows for sure anyway…)

It is NOT impossible and i don’t know of many Catholic who say such things…
i dare say many “Protestants” will make it before some Catholics… (though, again, God knows…)

All i know is that i myself couldn’t seem to overcome certain weaknesses until i became fully Catholic (began praying rosary, etc…)

Thank you distracted. I know the Catholic Church doe not teach that non Catholics go to hell, I’m just tired of OTCA’s post saying only Catholics are saved. I came here to learn, not to hear someones prejudice and redrick.Thank you for actualy backing me up from OTCA.:clapping:
peace be with you

 

[Robbinson]

Thank you distracted. I know the Catholic Church doe not teach that non Catholics go to hell, I’m just tired of OTCA’s post saying only Catholics are saved. I came here to learn, not to hear someones prejudice and redrick.Thank you for actualy backing me up from OTCA.:clapping:
peace be with you

Indeed - agreed. Its ironic when a Catholic (who claims infallibililty of Church doctrine - at least official statements of the Pope) makes this errant claim (that one must be within the Church to be saved) in the face of the Catechism’s express statement to the contary and then points to personal interpretation of prior Church doctrine to justify contravening formal/official Church pronouncements.

As for me - I’ll look to scripture alone and see no such doctrine anywhere in scripture. To the contrary, I see evidence in the book of Revelation from the earliest Church years of multiple “denominations” - 7 churches with seven different “problems” - clearly not unified under single “Church” body and to Jesus teaching when he admonished his disciples from turning away others who were not “with their group” yet spoke, prayed and performed miracles in the name of Jesus. Jesus included these groups within his fold forshadowing the future when there would be many within the fold.

Jesus prayed for “unity” - but not for uniformity. What unites us as Christians (with respect and love) is not the Pope but core Christian doctrines found within scripture. The gospel is quite simple - believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior and accept him as Lord and saviour - believe that he died, was resurrected and will return again. Accept the work of the Holy Spirit in your heart and then we are known by how we love oneanother (not by which church we go to and what our beliefs on rapture, baptism, or the sacraments are).

In love,

Blessings,

Brian

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Indeed - agreed. Its ironic when a Catholic (who claims infallibililty of Church doctrine - at least official statements of the Pope) makes this errant claim (that one must be within the Church to be saved) in the face of the Catechism’s express statement to the contary and then points to personal interpretation of prior Church doctrine to justify contravening formal/official Church pronouncements.

As for me - I’ll look to scripture alone and see no such doctrine anywhere in scripture. To the contrary, I see evidence in the book of Revelation from the earliest Church years of multiple “denominations” - 7 churches with seven different “problems” - clearly not unified under single “Church” body and to Jesus teaching when he admonished his disciples from turning away others who were not “with their group” yet spoke, prayed and performed miracles in the name of Jesus. Jesus included these groups within his fold forshadowing the future when there would be many within the fold.

Jesus prayed for “unity” - but not for uniformity. What unites us as Christians (with respect and love) is not the Pope but core Christian doctrines found within scripture. The gospel is quite simple - believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior and accept him as Lord and saviour - believe that he died, was resurrected and will return again. Accept the work of the Holy Spirit in your heart and then we are known by how we love oneanother (not by which church we go to and what our beliefs on rapture, baptism, or the sacraments are).

In love,

Blessings,

Brian

It is not merely a “Catholic” who states this but Christ Himself. You are Protestant, therefore you are not following the teachings of Christ as written in Scripture either. You sound like OSAS and it just isn’t true. Jesus told Peter to start His CHURCH. 1Tim. 3:15 says it all. But if you’d like, I have at least 50 other verses where Jesus says you can be saved BY HIS CHURCH.
Thank you Lord for planting me in the right direction.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Thank you distracted. I know the Catholic Church doe not teach that non Catholics go to hell, I’m just tired of OTCA’s post saying only Catholics are saved. I came here to learn, not to hear someones prejudice and redrick.Thank you for actualy backing me up from OTCA.:clapping:
peace be with you

I never said the words “non-Catholics are going to hell”, but I do believe they will not go straight to Heaven either. Especially ones who are here and are explained over and over about the church which Christ founded. To know this and turn away is a grave sin. You say you came here to learn, but you get angry at the truth…go figure.

 

[Peter_J]

Sorry I could not get back to you sooner, I had to race.You are right about the teachings of RCC. My question was more for OTCA, because she is always posting, there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. This kind of prejudice offends me because it is no were in Scripture or what John Paul II had to say!/B]

Oh I see.

I think I’ll bow out of that one – I’m not much interested in so-called “traditionalist Catholic” arguments (which is why I don’t spend much time on the Traditional Catholicism forum).

 

[reteeks21]

I never said the words “non-Catholics are going to hell”, but I do believe they will not go straight to Heaven either. Especially ones who are here and are explained over and over about the church which Christ founded. To know this and turn away is a grave sin. You say you came here to learn, but you get angry at the truth…go figure.

I don’t think it’s the truth as you put it. I think it’s the condescending way you do it. You are rude, and you have been told by numerous people that you are, but you just won’t admit it. I don’t have a problem discussing truth, but it’s hard to listen to someone whose ego is so large that it takes up all the space on their postings.

 

[GEddie]

who said they do?

The OP said that the verse in question concerned Purgatory and prayers for the dead. But such is not to be found there.

 

[Peter_J]

Aaaahhh…but my friend, we are part of the true church, you and I!

Hi look. I don’t believe in Branch Theory. But, haven’t said that, I do in a certain sense agree with you that we are both part of the true Church.

 

[racing59]

I never said the words “non-Catholics are going to hell”, but I do believe they will not go straight to Heaven either. Especially ones who are here and are explained over and over about the church which Christ founded. To know this and turn away is a grave sin. You say you came here to learn, but you get angry at the truth…go figure.

OTCA,
I don’t understand why you don’t get it! You say you can quote 50 Scriptures to back you up. Well my friend my understanding is the Catholic Church does not believe in Solo Scriptoria. They Catholic faith follows the Primacy of Peter, Scripture, and Tradition. With that said, you are not following your Holy Father the Pope.It is not a Catholic teaching that other Christians will not get to heaven, yet time again I see you post this on many threads. I Corinthians 3:10-20 for what I understand our a Catholic teaching on Purgatory.
This being true than a Christian would get to Heaven via Purgatory. So in turn Christians that are not Catholic would still make it to heaven. That is not what you say in your post. There are alot of people you have offended, they ahve posted their complaints that you ignore.How can you say your Catholic , in full Truth if you don’t follow what your Holy Father the Pope has taught? You totaly contradict yourself. You need to step back and pray about it. To be Catholic means you follow the Vatican 110% does it not?

 

[Peter_J]

**…

With that said, you are not following your Holy Father the Pope.

…

How can you say your Catholic , in full Truth if you don’t follow what your Holy Father the Pope has taught? You totaly contradict yourself. You need to step back and pray about it. To be Catholic means you follow the Vatican 110% does it not? **

Racing,

I don’t want to get involved in the particular discussion that you’re having here; but I would like to make general comment that: It seems that, somewhere along the line, you got the idea that we Catholics are a highly homogenous group. We’re not. (I don’t if you saw the recent thread that mentioned that a large percentage of Catholics who attend church weekly, find such things as un-marital sex to be morally acceptable. )

You might consider the following quotation:

“Catholicism is a big tent. There are lots of people inside of it, and not all of them are well informed. Some of them are flat-out wrong.”

• taken from a This Rock article by Ronald J. Rychlak

 

[racing59]

Racing,

I don’t want to get involved in the particular discussion that you’re having here; but I would like to make general comment that: It seems that, somewhere along the line, you got the idea that we Catholics are a highly homogenous group. We’re not. (I don’t if you saw the recent thread that mentioned that a large percentage of Catholics who attend church weekly, find such things as un-marital sex to be morally acceptable. )

You might consider the following quotation:

“Catholicism is a big tent. There are lots of people inside of it, and not all of them are well informed. Some of them are flat-out wrong.”

• taken from a This Rock article by Ronald J. Rychlak

Peter J,
I am on a journey and it may end at the Catholic Church. I have a beaytiful wife, six children and 10 grand children. They depend on me to guide them and be spiritual leader of my family. My extended family is a blend of different races and religions. With that being said I can’t stand prejudice. Most Catholics I come across are beautyful, I have a problem with OTCA’s prejudice against other Christians. I’m hear to learn and fellowship, her redrick gets in the way of my journey. I hope this makes sense?

 

[look3467]

Catholic = wide-ranging, broad, wide-reaching, all-embracing, extensive, varied.

Universal = worldwide, widespread, general, common, collective, total, entire, complete.

I would like to add a word to the word “Catholic” and that is “believer”.

“Believer”, in this case is in Jesus.

Therefore, all who believe in Jesus could be said to be Catholic, if the world Catholic means universal.

Notice I said “all who believe”?

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

“Whosever will” is a universal invitation, and if whoever thirsts after God shall not be disappointed.

So, if we are all believers in Jesus, why the argument?

Blessing’s, AJ