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Peebo
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What denominations believe that…
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Protestants go to heaven, Catholics go to hell?
- Thread starter NoelFitz
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lilypadrees
Guest
There will be Catholics and Protestants in both places. The C/church one attended in life isn’t going to be the deciding factor.
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ATraveller
Guest
Here’s probably one way of understanding what it’s like having people misunderstand Protestant soteriology.
Some believe because Catholics have confession it means Catholics can sin a whole bunch then confess it to a priest and everything would be fine. Rinse and repeat. A never ending cycle. Of course, that’s NOT what Catholicism teaches.
Some believe because Catholics have confession it means Catholics can sin a whole bunch then confess it to a priest and everything would be fine. Rinse and repeat. A never ending cycle. Of course, that’s NOT what Catholicism teaches.
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LostSheep7
Guest
Usually reformed/Calvinist Protestants
In the USA the Presbyterian Church in America and the Ortodox Presbyterian Church, among smaller denominationsWhat denominations believe that
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MichaelP3
Guest
Do these Reformed/Calvinists believe and the ones you named in the USA in particular believe Catholics go to hell?
Just asking. That is the OP statement.
Just asking. That is the OP statement.
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LostSheep7
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The Westminster Confession of Faith, followed by the more conservative reformed denominations, states that the Pope is the Antichrist and call Catholic’s “papists”.Do these Reformed/Calvinists believe and the ones you named in the USA in particular believe Catholics go to hell?
Many people in my former church (Igreja Presbiteriana do Brasil - Brazilian Presbyterian Church) believe Catholics are not true Christians and are going to hell.
I am very grateful for all the replies. Thanks for taking time to consider my concerns and to reply.
Some of the replies are very thoughtful and I need to reflect on them. My original issues were not addressed very clearly, possibly due to my inability to express my views clearly, and my lack of focus.
Basically, are we, Catholics, too negative, while Protestants are too positive. Is it the old concerns with despair and presumption?
I wrote ‘But a Catholic will be condemned to hell for all eternity for disobeying God or his Church, in a grievous way, with clear knowledge and full consent. Examples of mortal sins for Catholics include missing Mass, without good reason, on Sunday, ‘bad’ thoughts, masturbation, sex outside marriage, non-Catholic marriage, divorce and contraception.’ Is disobeying Church authority a mortal sin? Does believing in contraception condemn a Catholic to hell for all eternity? These have not been considered adequately.
Perhaps these concerns go back to the first major heresy in the Church Marcionism, where two Gods were proposed - the Creator harsh judging God of the Old Testament (Catholic) , and the loving God of the New Testament seen in Jesus (Protestant).
I would like to reply in detail to all replies, but as I agree fully with some points made, and some need more reflection I will limit comments.
ATravellor (15)
Protestants, like Catholic, are not a uniform group. I agree. My friend is an admirer of Karl Barth.
Thanks for a sound reply. I regret my error. You are correct the post read ‘We must trust in Jesus and Mercy.’ Sorry!
Latin,
Your reply needs not only reflection, but research and study.
A simplified believe was that Catholics do not believe in predestination, but free will, while Protestants believe in predestination. John Calvin held in double predestination.
Certain points need to be accepted, namely we have free will, to be saved we need grace, we are saved by the merits of Jesus, God is omniscient.
When I am faced with a difficult problem I refer to Ott, who claimed Augustine believed that God’s will for salvation is limited to the elect.
I see in Ott (p. 242)
God, by His Eternal Resolve of Will, has predetermined certain men to eternal blessedness (De Fide).
These issues may not concern directly the questions I posed, and, as the cliché says, they are beyond my pay grade.
Some of the replies are very thoughtful and I need to reflect on them. My original issues were not addressed very clearly, possibly due to my inability to express my views clearly, and my lack of focus.
Basically, are we, Catholics, too negative, while Protestants are too positive. Is it the old concerns with despair and presumption?
I wrote ‘But a Catholic will be condemned to hell for all eternity for disobeying God or his Church, in a grievous way, with clear knowledge and full consent. Examples of mortal sins for Catholics include missing Mass, without good reason, on Sunday, ‘bad’ thoughts, masturbation, sex outside marriage, non-Catholic marriage, divorce and contraception.’ Is disobeying Church authority a mortal sin? Does believing in contraception condemn a Catholic to hell for all eternity? These have not been considered adequately.
Perhaps these concerns go back to the first major heresy in the Church Marcionism, where two Gods were proposed - the Creator harsh judging God of the Old Testament (Catholic) , and the loving God of the New Testament seen in Jesus (Protestant).
I would like to reply in detail to all replies, but as I agree fully with some points made, and some need more reflection I will limit comments.
ATravellor (15)
Protestants, like Catholic, are not a uniform group. I agree. My friend is an admirer of Karl Barth.
Thanks for a sound reply. I regret my error. You are correct the post read ‘We must trust in Jesus and Mercy.’ Sorry!
Latin,
Your reply needs not only reflection, but research and study.
A simplified believe was that Catholics do not believe in predestination, but free will, while Protestants believe in predestination. John Calvin held in double predestination.
Certain points need to be accepted, namely we have free will, to be saved we need grace, we are saved by the merits of Jesus, God is omniscient.
When I am faced with a difficult problem I refer to Ott, who claimed Augustine believed that God’s will for salvation is limited to the elect.
I see in Ott (p. 242)
God, by His Eternal Resolve of Will, has predetermined certain men to eternal blessedness (De Fide).
These issues may not concern directly the questions I posed, and, as the cliché says, they are beyond my pay grade.
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jimsnew
Guest
As one that was born in a Protestant home, it was all I knew. It’s key to its popularity is that it’s easy. No Catechism, just Bible only, Faith Alone, Once Saved Always Saved. You can do whatever you want, you’ve been saved, your future sins are covered as well. I can’t see how any serious Christian can believe that once you’ve had Christ ‘as your personal savior’ that you can commit any sin you want and it’s all good! I was raised in a Baptist family (one brother is a Baptist minister), I fell for a Catholic girl, honestly the Eucharist was a main convincing doctrine. Until I studied the Catholic faith, I had no idea that Baptists didn’t believe it was the body and the blood, since I sat through the Protestant services and they read the same passages, This is my Body. I thought all along that they meant it!
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joeybaggz
Guest
Noel, you might want to ask your friend how much of his weekly salary is the charlatan who is feeding his the crap he is spouting, taking every week. Your friend is in the grips of some huckster who is draining his wallet and poisoning his soul. False witness is a big no no. Pray for him.
Most replies seem to focus on disagreeing with faith alone saves.But a Catholic will be condemned to hell for all eternity for disobeying God or his Church, in a grievous way, with clear knowledge and full consent. Examples of mortal sins for Catholics include missing Mass, without good reason, on Sunday, ‘bad’ thoughts, masturbation, sex outside marriage, non-Catholic marriage, divorce and contraception. The Catholic is the ‘slave of Christ’, and is not free to make up her/his own mind about what to do or avoid. The Protestant can decide what is moral and what is not.
Is this so? I hope not.
But the above quotation is ignored.
Do Catholics believe that following conscience is not appropriate? Will a Catholic who believes in contraception be damned for all eternity, as (s)he reject the teaching of the Church?
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thanksgiving
Guest
If your religion tells you your eternal soul is a result of your performance.
If your religion is based on God’s performance .
These are the issues.
You can choose.
If your religion is based on God’s performance .
These are the issues.
You can choose.
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joeybaggz
Guest
This is a “sticky wicket” question. Catholics are obligated to follow their conscience. A conscience that is formed taking into account the teaching of the church. We are, as Catholics obliged to believe in all that has been proclaimed as infallible teachings, those from the Pontiff in the Chair of Peter, or the teaching of all the world’s bishops when they speak in one voice on matters of faith and morals. That in the Creed we proclaim at almost all Sunday masses.Do Catholics believe that following conscience is not appropriate? Will a Catholic who believes in contraception be damned for all eternity, as (s)he reject the teaching of the Church?
The teaching of Humanae Vitae is infallible as it is not wrong. It is taught infallibly, but it is not, by definition an infallible teaching; not proclaimed from the chair of Peter as was the doctrine of the Assumption of the Blessed Mother. Will one day that happen, maybe, maybe not. It is not “wrong” but Is it absolutely right, ??? After all, Pope Paul VI acted in a contrary manner to the advisory group of the day, an advisory that consisted of many of the church’s bishops at the time.
The popular media of today loves to cite how 80-90% of the world’s Catholics disagree and act in a contrary manner to the pope, therefore the teaching is “wrong.” Are those who practice ABC merely acting in the best manner they can consistent with their conscience as the teaching is defined and will be examined more as the Holy Spirit reveals the truth over time.
(And please, two things; if any clergy or canon lawyer finds the definition of infallibility here wrong or not perfectly clear or stated, please chime in. And two, let’s not go off the rails and discuss ABC instead of the OP’s initial question.
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tweedlealice
Guest
To be kind
I was a cradle Catholic. I left for a few years. I’m a Charismatic Catholic. Our church is not happy w the Charismatic Movement.
Nevertheless, if responsive to God, in the Trinity, in Catholicism, we walk God. We enjoy going to mass, Bible Study, etc. We hear what the Protestants hear w Romans road. Google Romans Road. When we receive communion, we ask Jesus in our hearts. There are times, we walk away in our teens.
Protestants feel you must accept Christ as your Lord and Savior. Ask Him to forgive you your sins and be Lord of your life. We do this at confession and Communion.
Protestants can mess up & get worldly. Words don’t do it! When this awareness hits us, we live it. God wants us to passionately love Him. He is the center of our universe. We will be Holy. Prods can say the words ¬ live it. Backsliders
We list sins explicitly from scripture. Their scripture says the same thing. They can’t pick and chose.
It is not our place to judge. Heaven and Hell are God’s decision. We can say to someone in Christian love, “your behavior is not of God. Our scripture says——. Please, let me know, if I can help you overcome this sin. Can I pray for you? “
Ignore this person’s view point. If the Holy Spirit, guides you, you can explain what you learned. When you are secure in your thinking, then, only then, can you open discussion w them.
In Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice
Read Ephesians 3: 13-21? Paul’s prayer for the church (us).
I was a cradle Catholic. I left for a few years. I’m a Charismatic Catholic. Our church is not happy w the Charismatic Movement.
Nevertheless, if responsive to God, in the Trinity, in Catholicism, we walk God. We enjoy going to mass, Bible Study, etc. We hear what the Protestants hear w Romans road. Google Romans Road. When we receive communion, we ask Jesus in our hearts. There are times, we walk away in our teens.
Protestants feel you must accept Christ as your Lord and Savior. Ask Him to forgive you your sins and be Lord of your life. We do this at confession and Communion.
Protestants can mess up & get worldly. Words don’t do it! When this awareness hits us, we live it. God wants us to passionately love Him. He is the center of our universe. We will be Holy. Prods can say the words ¬ live it. Backsliders
We list sins explicitly from scripture. Their scripture says the same thing. They can’t pick and chose.
It is not our place to judge. Heaven and Hell are God’s decision. We can say to someone in Christian love, “your behavior is not of God. Our scripture says——. Please, let me know, if I can help you overcome this sin. Can I pray for you? “
Ignore this person’s view point. If the Holy Spirit, guides you, you can explain what you learned. When you are secure in your thinking, then, only then, can you open discussion w them.
In Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice
Read Ephesians 3: 13-21? Paul’s prayer for the church (us).
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OsculeturMeOsculo
Guest
Exactly. It is quite infuriating.
Thanksgiving
You seem to oversimplify and may seem to compare Catholicism with Protestantism.
You might like to look at Does the Catholic Church Teach That Works Can Obtain Salvation? | Catholic Answers
The Catholic Church has never taught such a doctrine and, in fact, has constantly condemned the notion that men can earn or merit salvation. Catholic soteriology (salvation theology) is rooted in apostolic Tradition and Scripture and says that it is only by God’s grace–completely unmerited by works–that one is saved.
You seem to oversimplify and may seem to compare Catholicism with Protestantism.
You might like to look at Does the Catholic Church Teach That Works Can Obtain Salvation? | Catholic Answers
The Catholic Church has never taught such a doctrine and, in fact, has constantly condemned the notion that men can earn or merit salvation. Catholic soteriology (salvation theology) is rooted in apostolic Tradition and Scripture and says that it is only by God’s grace–completely unmerited by works–that one is saved.
Joeybaggz,
You note my original query is a ‘sticky wicket’ question. I hope so. We are here to consider not only simple issues, and I like to give my threads provocative titles to encourage participation.
One must distinguish. Catholics must (1) follow conscience and (2) have an informed conscience.
Humanae Vitae may not be directly involved with this thread, but it poses problems about Church authority and obedience of the Faithful.
Tweedlealice
Catholics can be Charismatics. I believe faithful Catholics could go along with your views.
You note my original query is a ‘sticky wicket’ question. I hope so. We are here to consider not only simple issues, and I like to give my threads provocative titles to encourage participation.
One must distinguish. Catholics must (1) follow conscience and (2) have an informed conscience.
Humanae Vitae may not be directly involved with this thread, but it poses problems about Church authority and obedience of the Faithful.
Tweedlealice
Catholics can be Charismatics. I believe faithful Catholics could go along with your views.
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Latin
Guest
God bless you Thanksgiving and God bless every readers of the CAF.If your religion tells you your eternal soul is a result of your performance.
If your religion is based on God’s performance .
These are the issues.
You can choose.
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The welfare of our eternal soul is the result of God’s free gift of Eternal Life in Heaven, paid by Christ on the cross. – CCCS 1996-1998; This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.
John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you. – The choice is God’s.
CCCS = Catechism of the Catholic Church Simplified.
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Our glory and position in Heaven is the results of our active performance with the grace of God. – Please read 1 Cor.3:12-15 which is the judgment of our performance with the grace of God, as God’s children/elect at the judgment our salvation is not at stake (DE FIDE).
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Our salvation is God’s choice and we can choose our glory and position in Heaven by our cooperation with the grace of God until we die.
.
God bless you Thanksgiving and God bless every readers of the CAF.
Latin
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joeybaggz
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Okay. Catholics must develop an informed conscience and then follow it? Good enough?One must distinguish. Catholics must (1) follow conscience and (2) have an informed conscience.
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TheOldColonel
Guest
Unfortunately, such is how the Fundamentalist minds works. I know Fundamentalist Catholics who likewise claim Protestants will not go to heaven.
What strikes me as rather concerning is the relative comfort those who make such statements have in casually condemning an entire category of people to eternal torment. Indeed, they seem quite in favor of it and completely at peace about it.
What strikes me as rather concerning is the relative comfort those who make such statements have in casually condemning an entire category of people to eternal torment. Indeed, they seem quite in favor of it and completely at peace about it.
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