Protestants go to heaven, Catholics go to hell?

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This tread goes back to the earliest heresy in the Church, where two Gods were considered, one is a harsh creator, judgmental God of the OT, who rejects sinners.

My God, my God, why have you abandoned me? Why so far from my call for help, from my cries of anguish? (Ps. 22:2 NAB)

But the OT also was a God who cares for his people
Can a mother forget her infant, be without tenderness for the child of her womb? Even should she forget, I will never forget you. (Isa. 49:15 NAB)

The God of the NT, Jesus, is a compassionate God who cares and loves all people.
The Son of Man came eating and drinking and they said, 'Look, he is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners. (Matt. 11:19a NAB)

It cannot be that we are more merciful than God, since we try to forgive those who trespass against us, and try to accept our spouses throughout successes and failures.

The Protestant who believe in the Jesus who saves, can teach some Catholics, while we can also teach them about how God acts.

Catholics are very much a both/and people. We are saved by the mercy of God, but we need to live moral lives.

Prior to Vat II the harsh God was preached, and it is difficult for me to see how we were wrong for almost two thousand years, before the modern view of a merciful God became prevalent. The balance between mercy and justice is hard to grasp.
 
Agreed. My mom, a former Catholic, now Lutheran, continually speaks about how she knows she is going to Heaven. I asked her who and who alone gets to judge…and if she is the judge of her own soul who does that make her (her own god). Pray for her.
 
The load of barnyard bagels the OP’s friend proposes is exactly why I am no longer Protestant.
 
NoelFitz said:
The Protestant can decide what is moral and what is not.
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I am not saying this of Protestantism itself, but just responding to this quote, the idea that the individual is the ultimate decider of right and wrong is why Adam fell in the first place.
 
No if you are baptised in the holy spirit .he tells you.

You should read the teachings of f.j.h.

Catholic sins were defined by fr john harden.
 
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How do you know that you are not deluding yourself?
 
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SammyRose said:
How do you know that you are not deluding yourself?
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The question above is difficult to answer. It reminds we of the words of Oliver Cromwell
‘I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken.’

I am a bit disappointed with this discussion as I feel it did not really ‘take off’, even though there were some excellent posts.

Many of the posts disagreed with the belief of (some) Protestants in the great love, mercy and faithfulness of God.

However, the issue about very many Catholics going to hell was not addressed. Will a huge number of Catholics go to hell for sexual sins against Catholic teaching and the rejection of Church authority and rules?
 
Perfect contrition may not be as rare as you imply.

None of us are “free” to mortally sin. Such a person is a slave still, but not a slave of Jesus, but of sin, and therefore a slave of a devil and not God. But slavery in Christ is freedom for us, for He is Life indeed. If someone thinks they can sin because they believe in Jesus, has he truly ever believed and loved as one should? If morality is mine to make up, and the way salvation works is dependent upon me, then who am I? I am not God. I am His creature.
 
NoelFitz said:
However, the issue about very many Catholics going to hell was not addressed. Will a huge number of Catholics go to hell for sexual sins against Catholic teaching and the rejection of Church authority and rules?
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So, the point your friend was making is that since Catholics have these rules we have to follow, compared to some Protestants, there will be more Catholics in hell?

I would disagree. The sacraments we have help us get to heaven. The guidance and teaching of the Church help us get to heaven. Also, I’m pretty sure Protestants know when they have sinned against God.

It’s not as simple as one of Jack Chick’s tracts suggests.
 
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My teacher said that, outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.
 
NoelFitz said:
The answer for me is that we cannot know the mind of God and must trust in his mercy. We judge God from our point of view, but he judges us in his way. In the end his mercy may prevail, and all may be saved.

What do you think?
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Not true , according to Saint Paul in 1 Cor.2:16 " For, who has known the mind of the Lord, that he might instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ "
The Lord, before leaving the earth bodily spent three years teaching the Apostles, and setting up the Sacramental system which the Church faithfully carries on into each succeeding generation. We have the Bible which we should read to get to know the mind of Our Father. We have the Catechism. Its up to us to study and get to know our faith better.
 
exnihilo said:
This is interesting as the New Testament clearly states Jesus came as a slave and the Apostles were slaves for Jesus and His Church.
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Respectfully toward opinion only. Our heavenly Father forces no one to love him, forced Love is not love is it?

One has a hard time to accept that Jesus or Apostles came as a slave, for within His own Spoken Word, his preaching, teaching, actions taken taken > Jesus Apostles, seemed to be strongly opposed and defends those held in slavery oppression, the out casts, widows, orphans, did he not?

Jesus stood up for the majority of the people over the few who held unquestionable authority that ruled over the majority, Jesus standing up for those who had no rights, did he not?

1st Commandment Love me with your whole heart, soul and mind > masters are no longer in 1st place?

Matthew 5:37 But let your yes be yes and your no be no. no one is forced to Love or obey>Free Will,w hat is Love if love is forced, our heavenly Father tells us does he not? you take that kind of Love, I do not accept?

Matthew 19:19 You shall love your neighbor as you love your self

A slave is one who is forced against their will, to do what they choose not to do or accept, but forced against their own Free Will?
Can slaves be forced to do ungodly things?

A servant is one who freely chooses to accept, such as truths and seeks to serve, willing would this be true?

Why we are all given the gift of >Free Will?

Have to understand the History, times, era of Jesus and Apostles, what they where living in and were dealing with? Under their rulers Romans millions became slaves, did they not?

OT Like slavery and polygamy is a sinful behavior regulated not endorsed, was it?

Did Jesus come to remove slavery by His Spoken Word, teachings, going so through our conscious of men? Slowly gradually changing the morality of society and kindly works that lead to exterminating slavery?

Regulation of slavery is >.not approval of slavery is it?

Did Jesus come to outlaw the institution of slavery?

Scripture regulated slavery, but never did Jesus approved it did he?
Jesus Rebukes, harshly? boldly? the authorities within his own Temple Elders, highly learned men, Priest Sanhedrin Court, etc does he not in Matthew chapter 23? Why?
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What is Jesus teaching us, one is subject to those with virtually unquestioned authority, thus face a condition similar to that of a slave?>>virtually no rights, while the few do?

Slavery, forcing others against their will, is it not stealing the Freedom and Equality rights of others?

Morality of slavery is no excuse for its abuse?
Jesus defends those in poverty or minority status are not to be abused to become an excuse for sin?

Is there a single NT verse commanding slavery or found even in Ten Commandments? 🤔

Mark 10:44 Who ever wishes to be first among you will be a slave to all…

St Peter teaching applies suffering for the sake of godly conduct and not becoming a slave to that which is ungodly through our Journey in Life?

Let your yes be yes and your no be no?

Slavery decreased hugely with Christianization of the Roman Empire.
Peace 🙂
 
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Kei said:
None of us are (is ??) “free” to mortally sin. Such a person is a slave still, but not a slave of Jesus, but of sin, and therefore a slave of a devil and not God.
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Paul, Peter and Jude refer to themselves as slaves, e.g. ‘Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God ’(Rom. 1:1 NAB). A slave has no rights but must do as his master wishes, similarly is a Catholic obliged to obey God/Christ, and the Church? Freedom of conscience is rarely taught, and when it is it is often modified by ‘rightly formed’. Is a Catholic free in conscience not to go to Mass on Sundays, or to approve of contraception?
 
NoelFitz said:
A slave has no rights but must do as his master wishes, similarly is a Catholic obliged to obey God/Christ, and the Church? Freedom of conscience is rarely taught, and when it is it is often modified by ‘rightly formed’. Is a Catholic free in conscience not to go to Mass on Sundays, or to approve of contraception?
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The Catholic is a slave to Christ, but that slavery brings true freedom. You cannot serve two masters. Then, our freedom is in service, and the least shall be raised up.
 
GladTidings said:
So, the point your friend was making is that since Catholics have these rules we have to follow, compared to some Protestants, there will be more Catholics in hell?

I would disagree. The sacraments we have help us get to heaven. The guidance and teaching of the Church help us get to heaven. Also, I’m pretty sure Protestants know when they have sinned against God.
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GladTidings,

I note the words of St Paul:
They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them (Rom. 2:15 NAB).

Non-Catholics must follow their consciences, but for Catholics there are a huge number of actions and omissions which are mortally sinful, and Catholics are meant to follow the Church’s teaching, not their individual consciences, according to some.

I was going to give a list of some of these but will limit myself to thoughts contrary to the 6th and 9th commandments, intercourse outside Catholic marriage and contraception. Non-Catholics are free to follow their consciences on moral issues.

However we must always hope in God’s mercy, remembering that Jesus died for us, and God is almighty and loves us.

He has not dealt with us as our sins merit, nor requited us as our wrongs deserve. (Ps. 103:10 NAB)
 
NoelFitz said:
But a Catholic will be condemned to hell for all eternity for disobeying God or his Church, in a grievous way, with clear knowledge and full consent. Examples of mortal sins for Catholics include missing Mass, without good reason, on Sunday, ‘bad’ thoughts, masturbation, sex outside marriage, non-Catholic marriage, divorce and contraception.The Catholic is the ‘slave of Christ’, and is not free to make up her/his own mind about what to do or avoid. The Protestant can decide what is moral and what is not.
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After those last words, I wouldn’t be able to answer him, because my uncontrollable laughter would preclude it. 🤣
 
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rose321 said:
Is there a single NT verse commanding slavery or found even in Ten Commandments? 🤔
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Rose321

You might like to consider the following:

Slaves, obey your human masters in everything, not only when being watched, as currying favor, but in simplicity of heart, fearing the Lord. (Col. 3:22 NAB)

Slaves, be obedient to your human masters with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ, (Eph. 6:5 NAB)

Slaves are to be under the control of their masters in all respects, giving them satisfaction, not talking back to them (Tit. 2:9 NAB)

Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse.(1 Pet. 2:18 NAB)
 
I personally think God cares more about what is in your heart. I dont believe God is concerned about whether you are Catholic or Protestant. Have you loved your neighbor? Not just the law abiding well mannered, How about the poor, the left out and marginalised. The addicted? What about a transexual?
 
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