Protestants go to heaven, Catholics go to hell?

[lilypadrees]

Nita,
many thanks.
I find it difficult to understand how a loving God could condemn a person to hell for all eternity for e.g. looking at pornography, especially as God made us all with weaknesses.
But again God’s ways are not our ways and we cannot understand the mind of God.

God doesn’t condemn us to Hell. We condemn ourselves by our choices. God will not force His Will on us but will give us our choice if that choice is to reject Him for eternity.

All sins will be forgiven except for the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. That sin won’t be forgiven on earth or in Heaven. It is the one sin that guarantees one their place in Hell.

 

[Nita]

Repentence is required for forgiveness. God forgives us whenever we truly repent of a sin and seek His forgiveness. Therefore, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would include a mindset that refused to repent – and/or denied they were guilty of serious sin and therefore didn’t need to ask for forgiveness.

(John 16:8 tells us that the Holy Spirit is the One who convinces us of sin, righteousness and judgement. We can choose to disregard Him.)

 

[shanishani7]

The salvation concept of Protestants is totally wrong. They believe Jesus will redeem all their sins Only by believing in Him.

Only Catholic Church was founded by Jesus, and in this True Church what rules bounded on earth will be bounded in heaven. Especially the 7 sacraments established by Jesus. Sacraments of Confession is needed to cleanse ones sins, the sacraments of baptism and anointing of sick will also cleanse mortal sins.
I agree only God can judge who will go to heaven and who will not. However, at least you need to believe that Catholic Church is the only true Church, and it is the body of God, not the one founded by Martin Luther. And nowadays some Protestant Churches not follow the Baptism process in bible, some changed words during baptism, so may risk the validity of the baptism. And many Protestants sinned because they believe Jesus will redeem them, that’s wrong, Confession is needed. And these necessary sacraments were taken and not exist in Protestant Church.
If the baptised one sinned a serious mortal sin such as murder, he may end up in hell too. The place where one soul end up in may mostly depends on the status the soul departed from his body. That’s why God usually took the soul immediately after one finished Baptism or Anointing of the sick because the soul is in the status of grace and all sins were cleansed.

 

[sudy]

Some time ago a Protestant friend told me he would go to heaven because he had accepted Jesus, who redeemed him and died for him and will save him. His spouse married him for better or for worse and will stick by him, so will God.

2 Peter 2: 20-21

But a Catholic will be condemned to hell for all eternity for disobeying God or his Church, in a grievous way, with clear knowledge and full consent…The Catholic is the ‘slave of Christ’, and is not free to make up her/his own mind about what to do or avoid. The Protestant can decide what is moral and what is not.

1 John 3:3-6, 14

The answer for me is that we cannot know the mind of God and must trust in his mercy. We judge God from our point of view, but he judges us in his way. In the end his mercy may prevail, and all may be saved.

As Scripture tells us, ‘mercy triumphs over judgement’ [James 2:13], and ‘love covers a multitude of sins.’ [1 Peter 4:8]

Many of the posts disagreed with the belief of (some) Protestants in the great love, mercy and faithfulness of God.

It isn’t that we disagree with God’s great love, mercy and faithfulness… it’s simply that Scripture is not about taking verses in isolation. We acknowledge that we are saved by our faith, but faith is not simply acknowledging a belief in Christ… it’s much more. To love God is to keep His commandments, and it is to love one’s neighbour.

However, the issue about very many Catholics going to hell was not addressed. Will a huge number of Catholics go to hell for sexual sins against Catholic teaching and the rejection of Church authority and rules?

See Matthew 7:13-14 and Matthew 7:21-23. We don’t determine who does and doesn’t go to heaven. God is the just judge. We hope in our salvation, but we must remain with Our Lord [John 15:6] and [John 10: 27-29]

Please bear in mind the conditions of mortal sin, but going back to your first post:

Missing Mass on Sunday without good reason. - This is the new testament fulfilment of the commandment keeping the Sabbath holy. We know that keeping the Lord’s day holy is from the earliest days of Christianity as we can still read what the Saint and Martyr, Bishop Ignatius of Antioch wrote about it. He lived in the first century AD.

Bad thoughts - … it really depends on what those bad thoughts are, for example 1 John 3:15

Masturbation - 1 John 2:15-16 says that lusts/desires of the flesh are not from God

Sex outside of marriage… Mark 10:7-8, Exodus 22:16 says that we should be married to this person

Non-catholic marriage - … a Catholic shouldn’t have a non-Catholic marriage without a dispensation, but a marriage between two non-Catholics would be valid.

Divorce - Mark 10:4-9

Contraception - Psalm 127:3-5

[Edited to correct a chapter number]

 

[VeryBlessed]

Perhaps neglected in this discussion is the sacrament of confession. It’s not “I have an impure thought and am now going to hell.” It’s “I have many impure thoughts, I know it’s wrong, I am sorry, and I go to confession”, where there is my own naked openness before God, and a superabundance of grace and forgiveness. Noel, perhaps your conundrum is born of an age where we have neglected and somewhat abandoned the blessing of confession. To me this is the true path of holiness - an eagerness to know all that offends God, complete openness and ready agreement on my part, keeping very short accounts on sin, and never losing sight of his infinite love and forgiveness.

 

[Nita]

I agree VeryBlessed. Confession is such a wonderful blessing God has provided for those who admit their sins and seek forgiveness. St. John expressed it so well in his first letter – which was the Office of Reading in this mornings Liturgy of Hours. It made me think of this thread.

1 John 1:8-10 IF we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. IF we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. IF we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Important to note the “if’s”; there are conditions to receiving God’s forgiveness and cleansing!

 

[idifacs_john]

If masterbation was a mortal sin, there would hardly be anyone in any church of any religion across the globe at least if everyone followed that idea to the T along with sex outside of marriage. And hammering people over the head with those two issues is a good way to make sure people stay out of any Church altogether. Mine as well stand on the street corner with a sign saying God hates homosexuals who have intercourse with each other. An then when people come by an go what ? Explain to them that you specifically wrote Who have intercourse with each other. Along with " the evil non catholic marriages, divorce and contraception "

Then one has to clairfy what constitutes clear knowledge and full consent because even if there is the slightest of weakeness in either then the " grevious and or mortal sin " aspect falls to pieces and doesnt hold up.

The Church should decide if they are more interested in converting people to the faith and be merciful or adhear to stone age traditions that do not have any wiggle room.

An being merciful would be more hammering on the gift of the sacrament of reconciliation more than anything else and why it is a good thing and not a negative instead of focusing on the supposed grevious nature of the sin that has entered ones life.

No one is a slave to Christ, we are brothers and sisters of Christ, with free will.

Follow the rules, just dont pretend we have to like them. I like run stop signs sometimes when no traffic or people are around. sometimes i dont.

 

[Nita]

…And hammering people over the head with those two issues is a good way to make sure people stay out of any Church altogether.
…
The Church should decide if they are more interested in converting people to the faith and be merciful or adhear to stone age traditions that do not have any wiggle room.

The Catholic Church doesn’t spend it’s time “hammering people over the head” about those two issues. As a matter of fact, I don’t recall ever hearing a sermon on either one of the two issues you mention. And they occupy very little of the space in the Catechism of the Catholic Church - so I’m not sure what you’re basing your accusation on. If you’re referring to this forum, if it does get talked about a lot, it’s because members bring it up and want to have it discussed.

An being merciful would be more hammering on the gift of the sacrament of reconciliation more than anything else and why it is a good thing and not a negative instead of focusing on the supposed grevious nature of the sin that has entered ones life.

One has to know what sins are grevious before they can judge whether they’re guilty of a serious sin and need to go to Confession in order to receive God’s merciful forgiveness. Confession is necessary only for the forgiveness of mortal sins; it is not necessary for the forgiveness of venial sins.

 

[NoelFitz]

If masterbation was a mortal sin, there would hardly be anyone in any church of any religion across the globe at least if everyone followed that idea to the T along with sex outside of marriage.

I believe the Church teaches that masturbation is a mortal sin. Similarly it seems the majority view in CA is that looking at pornography is also a mortal sin. Hence my query about Catholics going to hell. Non-Catholics in general do not believe masturbation and pornography are mortal sins, hence lacking clear knowledge they excape hell for these practices.

mercy triumphs over judgment (Jas. 2:13b NAB)

 

[ajcstr]

A sin may be mortal or venial based on the intention of the person committing it and the circumstances surrounding it. It’s not always black or white. Everyone sins, no way around that. I understand that your point is that if I realize its a sin and still do it then I am more at fault than somebody who does not know its a sin. Again I think you are being too black and white. It’s possible that the thief on the cross was guilty of mortal sin yet he was forgiven.

Contraception is a tough one when discussing Catholics and Protestants because in many (most?) Protestant circles, this is not considered a sin at all.

I guess the point is we have to worry about OUR OWN relationship with God and not compare it to others. Think the parable of the vineyard owner who hires the workers at different points of the day but pays them all the same.

 

[ajcstr]

I would like an answer to whether one act of the following would condemn one to hell for all eternity, if not confessed, or forgiven by perfect contrition: bad thoughts, sex outside a valid Catholic marriage, missing mass on Sundays, viewing pornography, contraception or masturbation.

While all of these sins can be grave I don’t believe that ONE act would necessarily condemn
someone. This is because I don’t think it would be a mortal sin in that case but all the sins you listed are not the same.

For instance, a married man who planned for weeks to meet up with a woman with the intention of having sex is graver than a person that viewed a website. Additionally bad thoughts are part of concupiscence and are not sinful in themselves. Its how they are acted upon that would determine their sinfulness.

That’s my take anyway.

 

[NoelFitz]

While all of these sins can be grave I don’t believe that ONE act would necessarily condemn

Thanks, Ajcstr,

For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all (Jas. 2:10 NAB)

 

[Nita]

…It’s possible that the thief on the cross was guilty of mortal sin yet he was forgiven.

Yes, he was forgiven. But note,
1. he admitted his guilt
Luke 23: 40-41 “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds;
2. sought forgiveness from Our Lord.
Luke 23: And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingly power.”
3. after he did this, Jesus forgave him.
Luke 23:43 “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

Jesus does the same for everyone. God does not condemn anyone to hell ((adulterer, porn watcher, murderer, etc.) IF they sincerely repent as the good thief did - that is, admit they’ve sinned and seek God’s forgiveness.
IF they refuse to do that, then they die in their sin and will be judged for it, whether they did it only once or many times.

It’s good to know however there’s Church teaching that there can be different levels in hell - just as there are different degrees of blessedness in heaven.
(I don’t have the time right now to look up Scripture passages (eg. rewarded according to our deeds) or the Church council that speaks of it, but I can do it later today if anyone is interested.)

 

[ajcstr]

Well, we have to make some key distinctions here. Even if we are talking about committing the sin ONCE , there are 4 possibilities:

1. contrite Catholic who commits the sin
2. contrite Protestant who commits the sin
3. Catholic who is unaware or not concerned with his sins
4. Protestant who is unaware or not concerned with his sins

I am saying that in my opinion, for person 1, the sin is not necessarily mortal.

But as I say, God sees into my soul, He knows my motivation. I will be responsible for MY actions to Him. How he judges anyone else is not really an issue.

How about a non-Christian? How will they be judged? When you seek the truth, and you believe what you have is the truth, then all you can do is live by that truth and bring others to that truth as we are called to do.

I don’t want to put words in your (OP) mouth but your question almost sounds like you are saying something like a person is better off not knowing the truth because then they won’t be judged by the truth.

 

[ajcstr]

For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all (Jas. 2:10 NAB)

Amen, but that does not mean its mortal

CCC 1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

 

[ajcstr]

Again, there could be mitigating circumstances. If it’s a habitual practice, it’s possible for that to be a mitigating circumstance. Eg. a person could have deliberately started watching porn with the conditions present for it to be mortal to his soul. Continued the practice to where it became a habit. Then had a conversion of heart, repented and confessed it, and desires to stop because he doesn’t want to offend God or even just because he doesn’t want to go to hell. However, he’s still left with a habit to break and that doesn’t usually happen overnight! (Altho it can if God grants a special grace.) But, if a person is sorry and confesses (for a Catholic that means in Confession) it is always forgiven.

This is an excellent point to consider also. St Paul repeatedly talks about a “thorn” that he has. Some have suggested that he is referring to a habitual sin.

 

[Nita]

Well, we have to make some key distinctions here. Even if we are talking about committing the sin ONCE , there are 4 possibilities:

1. contrite Catholic who commits the sin
2. contrite Protestant who commits the sin
3. Catholic who is unaware or not concerned with his sins
4. Protestant who is unaware or not concerned with his sins

I am saying that in my opinion, for person 1, the sin is not necessarily mortal.

If you’re talking about a Catholic who committed the sin knowing Scripture and the Church call it grave sin which results in condemnation to hell if unrepented, then person 1 WAS in the state of mortal sin when he committed it. But, once he repents and confesses, he is no longer in the state of mortal sin. If the person intends to go to Confession, but dies before he can do so, he is also forgiven of his sin and will not be condemned for it.

Regarding person 3 who is unaware. Ignorance can be culpable or inculpable. Culpable ignorance does not excuse him. You can read here what the Catechism teaches.
Also, those who are not concerned with their sins are covered in the link.

We are not going to be judged according to our opinions/thinking - but according to God’s truth which He has gone to a lot of trouble to reveal to us!

 

[ajcstr]

If you’re talking about a Catholic who committed the sin knowing Scripture and the Church call it grave sin which results in condemnation to hell if unrepented, then person 1 WAS in the state of mortal sin when he committed it.

Again, I don’t think a blanket statement like this can be made. Just sayin, depends on the gravity of the sin, the intention, if its habitual, etc, etc.

 

[sudy]

Non-Catholics in general do not believe masturbation and pornography are mortal sins, hence lacking clear knowledge they excape hell for these practices.

mercy triumphs over judgment (Jas. 2:13b NAB)

When I quoted this verse in my post, I didn’t mean it in the way you’ve used it. This is only part of the verse. It’s basically saying we need to be merciful as God is merciful, or else we can expect to receive the full weight of his judgement. It isn’t saying that we can interpret the law ourselves and we’ll be judged according to how we understand it, or that we can just rely on His mercy rather than expect His justice.
I just wanted to clear that up.
If you read 2 Peter 1 and 2, it tells us clearly that Scripture isn’t for us to interpret individually, as well as our need for self control. It also tells us that we won’t be spared in our licentiousness.
See Jude 1:8

 

[Nita]

Again, I don’t think a blanket statement like this can be made.

But that’s what laws/doctrines/teachings are. They are the blanket or general objective statements of what is to be accepted, believed, obeyed, …
What God’s judgement of an individual’s degree of conformity to those laws is, is unknown to us. There are very likely as many as the number of existing individuals times the number of serious sins they committed!

Just sayin, depends on the gravity of the sin, the intention, if its habitual, etc, etc.

Of course. I’ve been saying all along (posts #69,77,80) that there can be mitigating circumstances which may lessen the degree of guilt ----- - EXCEPT in post #100 which you’re responding to. Goof on my part; sorry for the omission.

Regarding “gravity of the sin”, I thought we were talking about acts that are taught by the Church to be grave/mortal sins, not those that are considered venial.