Protestants: Has the "Reformation" come to an end?

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gcnuss said:
Meaning that there has not been enough movement to overcome the causes of division. Relationships between Catholics and non-Catholics continue to be adversarial in the sense that many seek “victory” rather than reunion. While the present atmosphere is much improved over that which existed in past centuries, there remains a feeling on both sides of the question that reunion is too costly in terms of what it would take to be reunited. Both Catholics and non-Catholics are convinced that they have the truth on their side

Pastor Gary:
Do you think with the signing of the JDDJ things are on a better path towards understanding each other?
I do…
(Joint Declaration Doctrine of Justification)
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gcnuss said:
Meaning that there has not been enough movement to overcome the causes of division. Relationships between Catholics and non-Catholics continue to be adversarial in the sense that many seek “victory” rather than reunion. While the present atmosphere is much improved over that which existed in past centuries, there remains a feeling on both sides of the question that reunion is too costly in terms of what it would take to be reunited. Both Catholics and non-Catholics are convinced that they have the truth on their side. As long as both maintain that conviction, reunion will be very difficult.
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You aren’t suggesting that we compromise on truth, are you? Not that anyone is really looking for “victory”, as you put it, but truth is of ultimate importance. You are right in that reunion will be difficult. There have been several attempts (and successes) at finding common ground, but many differences remain.
 
Indifferently said:
The Church of Rome has been going through its own little reformation since Vatican II. Revisionist historians are working very hard to demonstrate, however, that this is in fact not the case.
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There has always been reform.
 
MaryT777 said:
Pastor Gary:
Do you think with the signing of the JDDJ things are on a better path towards understanding each other?
I do…
(Joint Declaration Doctrine of Justification)
Click to expand...
It is a good step in the right direction. We will probably advance by baby steps rather than giant steps.
 
babs57 said:
You aren’t suggesting that we compromise on truth, are you? Not that anyone is really looking for “victory”, as you put it, but truth is of ultimate importance. You are right in that reunion will be difficult. There have been several attempts (and successes) at finding common ground, but many differences remain.
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Not intending to speak for Pastor Gary, but it seems to me that compromising on truth would only lead to later disunity, as it would not be an honest unity. Convergence of belief is possible, only if we allow the Spirit to guide us, and it is the Spirit that will bring unity.

Jon
 
True unity will come if all involved will accept the Augsburg Confession. Calvinist and Romanist will not accept it but for true Lutherans, the Augsburg Confession and Book of Concord is the correct exposition of Scripture. We must be honest in our differences before we can talk unity.
 
hn160 said:
True unity will come if all involved will accept the Augsburg Confession. Calvinist and Romanist will not accept it but for true Lutherans, the Augsburg Confession and Book of Concord is the correct exposition of Scripture. We must be honest in our differences before we can talk unity.
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And that is why there will be no unity. 🤷
 
aidanbradypop said:
I agree. Sadly, I believe the denominations are growing farther from where the reformers intended them to go. Hence, reform begets reform.
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Do you think that this would lead full circle? i.e. inadvertently they would start believing what we as Catholics believe?
 
khuldar said:
Do you think that this would lead full circle? i.e. inadvertently they would start believing what we as Catholics believe?
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Well if we start with a Lutheran and then fast foward to say a Mormon, we can see that when one breaks and reforms, another will break and reform from that. Make sense?
 
babs57 said:
You aren’t suggesting that we compromise on truth, are you? Not that anyone is really looking for “victory”, as you put it, but truth is of ultimate importance. You are right in that reunion will be difficult. There have been several attempts (and successes) at finding common ground, but many differences remain.
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Excellent point.
Blessings this Holy Week.
Mary.
 
aidanbradypop said:
Well if we start with a Lutheran and then fast foward to say a Mormon, we can see that when one breaks and reforms, another will break and reform from that. Make sense?
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I understand, pop, that you are simply making a point, but there is no link, none whatever, between Lutheranism and Joseph Smith. LDS is not a splinter, even indirectly, from Lutheranism.

Jon
 
hn160 said:
True unity will come if all involved will accept the Augsburg Confession. Calvinist and Romanist will not accept it but for true Lutherans, the Augsburg Confession and Book of Concord is the correct exposition of Scripture. We must be honest in our differences before we can talk unity.
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Exactly
Mary.
 
JonNC said:
I understand, pop, that you are simply making a point, but there is no link, none whatever, between Lutheranism and Joseph Smith. LDS is not a splinter, even indirectly, from Lutheranism.

Jon
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I didn’t mean they related as far as doctrine or anything. Just making the point that reform begets reform
 
hn160 said:
True unity will come if all involved will accept the Augsburg Confession. Calvinist and Romanist will not accept it but for true Lutherans, the Augsburg Confession and Book of Concord is the correct exposition of Scripture. We must be honest in our differences before we can talk unity.
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You can just call us Catholics. 😃
 
I think the discussion here bears out what I said above. None of us, I believe, thinks that we are in error, at least in the basics of our faith. We proclaim Christ in accordance with our the understandings derived from our teaching traditions. We tend to be unwilling to bend if that means denying what we know to be truth.

That is why I said that we will only overcome our differences through baby steps. It is good that we have the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification. It is good that we have the ongoing series of Lutheran-Catholic dialogues to point out areas of convergence and to recognize areas of divergence that require more study and dialogue. But, there are substantial differences to overcome before we will be blessed with unity.

I continue to pray for that unity, although I may only experience it in God’s nearer presence.
 
JustaServant said:
Is it still relevant in today’s world?
What say you?
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I think it is relevant and I don’t think the “reformation” is finished. I think that for Evangelicals at least their reformation is ongoing.

Consider the ever-changing theological fads within evangelicalism. First the “rapture”, now the hybrid Christianity-Judaism, then the fad of “non-denominational” churches that implies that the only Christians to exist are evangelicals who have “got saved”.

I was raised an evangelical and I have personally witnessed this for years.

Evangelicals even have their own English and sub-culture.

I really think they believe themselves to be the worlds only Christians.

It does not matter if you have been baptized or had the other sacraments, all are only symbolic but if you have not “got saved” it is for naught and you will go to hell.

BTW I am not speaking of Evangelical Catholics at all, IOW Lutherans.
 
JonNC said:
Convergence of belief is possible, only if we allow the Spirit to guide us, and it is the Spirit that will bring unity.
Jon
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I really mean no disrespect, but how can one converge belief? How can one, for instance, converge the belief that The Blessed Sacrament is the ACTUAL body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, with the belief that it is not?
 
MaryT777 said:
Excellent point.
Blessings this Holy Week.
Mary.
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Thanks, Mary. I just got back from Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament…The first ever for our parish. It was awsome! :signofcross:

Sorry…Didn’t mean to get off topic! 😛
 
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