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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Really
I guess that would be another reason not to trust man.
Maybe I should go and see at the parish down the road.
What did they say to you?
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I guess that would be another reason not to trust man.Maybe I should go and see at the parish down the road.
What did they say to you?
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ncgolf
Guest
The thing is I don’t think you have remotely answered the question and I have found nothig redundant yet. You say it is about preaching but then that is it. How did you come up with that conclusion. I read your result but not how you got there … how you got there is what I want to understand … I already know where you are … that is why I keep asking. I know I cannot change your mind but I still am very interested in how you got you interpretation of the John 20? You had to go through some sort of cognitive reasoning process to come up with your conclusion.I believe I already have, you just dont accept my explanation. Actually, I believe their has been several explanations regarding this thread. If you choose not to believe our explanation and vice versa then so be it. I guess then the conversation is over because we are at a standstill. How mant times do you need to hear the same answer before you believe it:shrug:
I, of course , mean no disrespect but one can only say the same thing so many times and then it becomes redundant. Im sure you agree.
I gave my thougt processes … the importance of Jesus breathing on them, the brevity of the statement and the lack of any preaching command amongst others and the word choice of Christ himself. Again I do not think Jesus wants people to be confused about things so I will ask, if not you, then others how “whose sins you forgive are forgiven and whose sins you retain are retained” equates even remotely with passing on just a message.
Now if you do not want to show me the how’s that is fine … I find Scripture hard to understand sometimes but there are areas I seem to understand better than others and I generally read those threads but do not particpate. I “see” this one that is why I keep asking?
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awantz
Guest
When I was done talking he told me that I sounded like a Christian with strong faith and that I need to ask God for a blessing. Then, he said a prayer with me and that was the end of it.Really
Maybe I should go and see at the parish down the road.
What did they say to you?
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chutton
Guest
Found this at gotquestions.org/confession-sin-priest.html and thought it tackled a few issues we’ve been discussing on this thread. Thought it was interesting and maybe some others would be interested in it too.
Question: "What does the Bible say about confession of sin to a priest?"
Answer: The concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture. First, the New Testament does not teach that there are to be priests in the New Covenant. Instead, the New Testament teaches that all believers are priests. 1 Peter 2:5-9 describes believers as a “holy priesthood” and a “royal priesthood.” Revelation 1:6 and 5:10 both describe believers as “a kingdom and priests.” In the Old Covenant, the faithful had to approach God through the priests. The priests were mediators between the people and God. The priests offered sacrifices to God on behalf of the people. That is no longer necessary. Because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we can now approach God’s throne with boldness (Hebrews 4:16). The temple veil tearing in two at Jesus’ death was symbolic of the dividing wall between God and humanity being destroyed. We can approach God directly, ourselves, without the use of a human mediator. Why? Because Jesus Christ is our great High Priest (Hebrews 4:14-15; 10:21), and the only mediator between us and God (1 Timothy 2:15). The New Testament teaches that there are to be elders (1 Timothy 3), deacons (1 Timothy 3), bishops (Titus 1:6-9), and pastors (Ephesians 4:11) – but not priests.
When it comes to confession of sin, believers are told in 1 John 1:9 to confess their sins to God. God is faithful and just to forgive our sins as we confess them to Him. James 5:16 speaks of confessing our trespasses “to one another,” but this is not the same as confessing sins to a priest as the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Priests / church leaders are nowhere mentioned in the context of James 5:16. Further, James 5:16 does not link forgiveness of sins with the confession of sins “to one another.”
The Roman Catholic Church bases their practice of confession to a priest primarily on Catholic tradition. Catholic do point to John 20:23, “If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." From this verse, Catholics claim that God gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins, and that authority was passed on to the successors of the apostles, e.g. the bishops and priests of the Roman Catholic Church. There are several problems with this interpretation. (1) John 20:23 nowhere mentions confession of sin. (2) John 20:23 nowhere promises, or even hints, that the authority to forgive sins would be passed on to the successors of the apostles. Jesus’ promise was specifically directed to the apostles. (3) The New Testament nowhere states that the apostles would even have successors to their apostolic authority. Similarly, Catholics point to Matthew 16:19 and 18:18 (binding and loosing) as evidence for the Catholic Church’s authority to forgive sins. The same three above points apply equally to these Scriptures.
Again, the concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture. We are to confess our sins to God (1 John 1:9). As New Covenant believers, we do not need mediators between us and God. We can go to God directly because of Jesus’ sacrifice for us. 1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
Question: "What does the Bible say about confession of sin to a priest?"
Answer: The concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture. First, the New Testament does not teach that there are to be priests in the New Covenant. Instead, the New Testament teaches that all believers are priests. 1 Peter 2:5-9 describes believers as a “holy priesthood” and a “royal priesthood.” Revelation 1:6 and 5:10 both describe believers as “a kingdom and priests.” In the Old Covenant, the faithful had to approach God through the priests. The priests were mediators between the people and God. The priests offered sacrifices to God on behalf of the people. That is no longer necessary. Because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we can now approach God’s throne with boldness (Hebrews 4:16). The temple veil tearing in two at Jesus’ death was symbolic of the dividing wall between God and humanity being destroyed. We can approach God directly, ourselves, without the use of a human mediator. Why? Because Jesus Christ is our great High Priest (Hebrews 4:14-15; 10:21), and the only mediator between us and God (1 Timothy 2:15). The New Testament teaches that there are to be elders (1 Timothy 3), deacons (1 Timothy 3), bishops (Titus 1:6-9), and pastors (Ephesians 4:11) – but not priests.
When it comes to confession of sin, believers are told in 1 John 1:9 to confess their sins to God. God is faithful and just to forgive our sins as we confess them to Him. James 5:16 speaks of confessing our trespasses “to one another,” but this is not the same as confessing sins to a priest as the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Priests / church leaders are nowhere mentioned in the context of James 5:16. Further, James 5:16 does not link forgiveness of sins with the confession of sins “to one another.”
The Roman Catholic Church bases their practice of confession to a priest primarily on Catholic tradition. Catholic do point to John 20:23, “If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." From this verse, Catholics claim that God gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins, and that authority was passed on to the successors of the apostles, e.g. the bishops and priests of the Roman Catholic Church. There are several problems with this interpretation. (1) John 20:23 nowhere mentions confession of sin. (2) John 20:23 nowhere promises, or even hints, that the authority to forgive sins would be passed on to the successors of the apostles. Jesus’ promise was specifically directed to the apostles. (3) The New Testament nowhere states that the apostles would even have successors to their apostolic authority. Similarly, Catholics point to Matthew 16:19 and 18:18 (binding and loosing) as evidence for the Catholic Church’s authority to forgive sins. The same three above points apply equally to these Scriptures.
Again, the concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture. We are to confess our sins to God (1 John 1:9). As New Covenant believers, we do not need mediators between us and God. We can go to God directly because of Jesus’ sacrifice for us. 1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
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ncgolf
Guest
Now wait … take this 1 step at a time.Really
Maybe I should go and see at the parish down the road.
What did they say to you?
You are asking a priest to absolve you but in reality you really do not believe he has that authority.
What would happen if a person prayed to Jesus for forgiveness but really never believed in Jesus? I think from your previous post you said he could not be forgiven and I would tend to agree.
In both scenarios how can absolution be given, you are asking God to forgive you without belief.
May I make a suggestion … before you jump into the confessional you do need to talk with a priest. Be open and honest in where you are spirtually, I have never met a priest who is not open to people’s sincere seeking of truth. Be open to his guidance … maybe confession is not appropriate at this time. I think it is best to approach these gifts with yearning and confidence rather than suspicion and mis-trust. As John Paul II said, “Do not be afraid.”
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dessert
Guest
I was away from confession for forty years, AllForHimyes that many years, and the priest still gave me communion because he didn’t know at first although they have a God sense about them. Went to confession and told him the truth about my life and was forgiven because you see the priest is sort of a gardener. There has been some discussion on another thread about this and my seed in the garden had a lot of weeds so I needed help. I was a cradel Catholic and then spent much time in confession getting aquanited with my conscience the priest a man and my God again in the Holy Spirit of truth.Really
Maybe I should go and see at the parish down the road.
What did they say to you?
I love your member name wished I thought of it:thumbsup:
dessert
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ncgolf
Guest
Why no offering of an alternative interpretation … think about it what is the only way one could be forgiven of sins or retained of sins by someone else. You have to say it … it is not mental or ESP … it has to be vocal. Now that was’nt so hard. So if you have to say it what does this next imply. Someone who has authority to forgive such things must grant it. I don’t have that power, I know, and I don’t think you do either so it can only be a special group of people … hmm where am I going with this. It ends up in the whole apostolic succession discussion … funny all these end up there. No matter what it always comes down to the authority question. You say no one has it and we say that authority still exists by the same method Jesus gave it to Peter and Peter to … and so on and so on for 2000 years. Just think it’s lasted 2000 years with only sinners as its members.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Can you tell I have a defiant streak. I would only go out of curiosity to see if he would forgive me. No, I really do not believe in confessing to a priest. Im sure I wont go either. I was just wondering what the CC stance on it is.
Sorry if I confused anyone. I was being a little fecetious here.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
I am happy for you.
Thanks about the name. I actually saw it from a teen at my church. So, I didnt think of it either
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Just a blessing. I would think if he felt you were a strong christian he would have said to ask God for forgiveness or at the very least given it to you. Oh well, at least we know where to go to be forgiven.
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awantz
Guest
Maybe one reason why he didn’t have me ask God for forgiveness is because at the beginning I told him that I’ve already confessed all my sins to God and I’ve already talked to my pastor about some of them.Just a blessing. I would think if he felt you were a strong christian he would have said to ask God for forgiveness or at the very least given it to you. Oh well, at least we know where to go to be forgiven.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Interesting–so he probably already knew you were forgiven:thumbsup:
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awantz
Guest
I would asume as much.Interesting–so he probably already knew you were forgiven:thumbsup:
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ncgolf
Guest
Sorry to disappoint you but it never says “confess to God” in that passage … you added it.
The text reads, “If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing.”
How does this contradict the Catholic position? This is all that we do in the confessional.
Are you saying we Catholics have more than 1 mediator … if so then you are wrong … no Catholic ever said that or believes it. Show me where Catholics believe there is more than 1 mediator.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
AH, now you are getting into apostoli succession. I will not make a comment though because it would completely derail the thread.
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ncgolf
Guest
Then deal with the other parts … it was brought it up in the other posting … it addressed that particular topic … so yes that piece can be ignored.AH, now you are getting into apostoli succession. I will not make a comment though because it would completely derail the thread.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Well what do you consider the priest to be?
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chutton
Guest
I would agree with you that a hole in that write up at gotquestions.org is not offering an alternate response to that verse in question. However I think it was a fairly thorough approach to why it would deem questionable to take it as an isolated verse without seeing scripture as a whole…which is what I think most protestant-inclined believers on this thread have been saying.
I would also agree that it is a tough verse to understand. I’m still mulling it over. However, I did find what I thought was a good response of an explanation of that verse in post #118.
Is it just me or does this discussion feel a bit heated?
Or maybe not ? 
In Christ,
Christina
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ncgolf
Guest
A priest never does anything on his own but always in Jesus’s name. Peter never did any miracle under his own name but only in Christ’s name. A priest is powerless without Chirst. Priests are part of what we call the ministerial priesthood they serve under the 1 High priest, Jesus Christ.
But do not misunderstand, they have authority to do things the laity does not, particularly Reconciliation(confession) and Consecration(Eucharist). Deacons are permitted to baptize.
All of us say “in Jesus’s name” … that gives prayer power and authority so some are even given greater authority under Jesus’s name … all of us have gifts under Christ some more than others.
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