Protestants, how can this be possible?

[PJM]

=JRKH;5709161]To be fair if the quakers use the trinitarian form of Baptism, then Seeker IS a catholic, just not “like us”

ONce again from the Catechism:
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

And to be both frank and honest PJM, I don’t find your comment about seeker creating his own God to be either True or useful. I say this in Christian Charity that we may continue the conversation in a respectful manner. I hope you will take it as such.

Peace
James

Hi James, Thanks but I don’t recall ever accusing anyone of creating there own God. I may have implied such to a Mormon or an atheist? But don’t think I have expressly said this?

Love and prayers,

 

[jmcrae]

yes I did. Matthew gave Peter the name petros, which is greek.

Actually no, since Jesus was not speaking Greek at the time. What we see in our earliest available versions of the Gospel of Matthew is a translation into Greek of the original conversation. That original conversation, though, took place in the Aramaic language. We see in the Book of Acts and elsewhere in the New Testament that Peter was actually called “Kephas” (sometimes spelled “Cephas” or “Kepha”) by the early Christian community, which is the Aramaic word for “Rock.”

The translator was actually just creating the male form of the word for “Rock” in Greek (which is Petra) but in those days, the term “petros” didn’t actually exist in the Greek language at all, and would have been meaningless. If Jesus had intended to name Peter “small rock” in contrast to a large rock, his Aramaic name would have been something other than “Kephas”, and the Greek translator would have used the word “Lithos” as the name given to Peter, since “lithos” was the word used in those days for “small rock.”

Peter’s faith is the rock

Right, and it’s his faith that is the foundation of Christ’s Church, that we must follow - we must be of the same faith (the same religion, basically) as Peter and his Successors, the Bishops of Rome.

 

[jmcrae]

Then one morning, in those first few moments upon awakening, when the voices of the world are still silent, I heard the words of my prayer repeated, “please bind the cancer, and cast it out.”

Any prayer made in faith and trust, and especially when we call upon the Lord to glorify Himself in answering our needs, no matter how it is worded, is very powerful indeed. I, too, have experienced powerful miracles whenever I throw myself on God’s mercy in the total trust and expectation of a little child.

However, the Early Church understood the “binding and loosing” to be referring to the discipline of the Church, where the Bishop has the authority to make decisions about how things are to be run, and even the angels in Heaven are called upon to obey the Bishop, and God Himself counts it as a sin to disobey whatever command he makes.

This is how it is that not going to Mass on Sundays, and not observing Friday penance can be mortal sins - because the Bishops have commanded us to do these things, and with the authority of the binding and loosing that Jesus gave to the Apostles and their successors (those same Bishops), these things become not merely suggestions, but actually commandments that we have to follow, as if they came from God Himself, because God binds them in Heaven at the moment that the Bishops bind them on earth.

Someone who says, “Oh, this is only a man-made command, so I am free to disobey it” is totally misunderstanding the authority of the Bishops, and does not understand that their authority was specifically given to them by Jesus Christ - they aren’t just elected officials, or hereditary noblemen. (This is also why the Apostolic Succession is so important, as well, so that we can know with certainty who is a Bishop, and who is just taking on the title of “Bishop” without really being one - so that we know who we have to obey.)

 

[PJM]

=Anna Scott;5712339]Pat: Thank you so much for this information. I appreciate your perspective.

I think you must have posted this, while I was working on my Post #356. Please see that post. I welcome your comments.

Anna

Anna,

Having been blessed by God with a personal miracle in my own life, I have no doubts about the power, majesty and love of God for us. I am continually awed at what a PERSONAL God we have. Truly “the hairs on our heads have been counted.”

I know God, I know that He knows me by name, and I have often seen the results of prayers answered.

May God continue to bless, use and guide you. Awesome story about our awesome God.

Pat

 

[PRmerger]

I knew, without a doubt, that hearing the words of the “T.V. minister,” who encouraged Christians to pray the words of Matthew 16:19, was not a coincidence. Today, I could not tell you the name of the minister or even his religious affiliation. However, the words in The Gospel of Matthew, will be forever in my heart.
P.S. The PET Scan was ordered to detect cancer cells in a thyroid mass. I had mammograms and bilateral ultrasounds of the breast the same day as the PET Scan. Mammograms and ultrasounds showed no sign of breast cancer.

Breast cancer was considered an “incidental finding.” I do not believe this was “incidental” or “accidental.” I see God’s hand in this from beginning to end.

Anna

Wow, Anna. That is quite a testimony to the power of God and the power of Scripture speaking to you. Praise God!

Your story about Scripture speaking to you personally makes a very trenchant point about the CC’s teaching on "personal interpretation’. We most definitely believe that God speaks to us individually through Scripture, i.e. we are all called to read Scripture and personalize it, like you did.

We are just commanded not to use the Scriptures to create false doctrines. Thus, if our "personal interpretation’ contradicts the guardian and Final Interpreter of Scripture (i.e. the Magisterium), then we must change our doctrine to fit the Truth.

In your case, God spoke quite clearly to you through the Scripture and your testimony gives greater Glory to God and His Word!

 

[JRKH]

What I am about to share with you is intensely personal. This may be awkward for some of the gentlemen on the Forum, but it is the best way I know to discuss the idea of “binding and loosing;” and, also, asking if Catholic
interpretation of authority to “bind and loose,” extends to the individual Christian.

(Snip)

May God’s Name be Glorified, in the miracles He performs in our lives.

Anna

Anna,
Thank you for that wonderful testimony. I don’t think anyone will find it offensive or uncomfortable. Praise God for your healing.

As to the Binding and loosing, and the Binding and Casting out, I would say they are two seperate things.
You prayed in faith, saying to the mountain (cancer) be removed from there (bound up) and cast into the sea (cast out), and it was done.
PJM has already addressed the meanings of the terms used in Mt 16 and I cannot add anything to his excellent post.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Hi James, Thanks but I don’t recall ever accusing anyone of creating there own God. I may have implied such to a Mormon or an atheist? But don’t think I have expressly said this?

Love and prayers,

Perhaps I confused two posts by two different posters. I tried to look up the reference but could not find it.
Please Accept my apology.

Peace
james

 

[Anna_Scott]

Any prayer made in faith and trust, and especially when we call upon the Lord to glorify Himself in answering our needs, no matter how it is worded, is very powerful indeed. I, too, have experienced powerful miracles whenever I throw myself on God’s mercy in the total trust and expectation of a little child.
PJM;5713418:

Anna, Having been blessed by God with a personal miracle in my own life, I have no doubts about the power, majesty and love of God for us. I am continually awed at what a PERSONAL God we have. Truly “the hairs on our heads have been counted.”

I know God, I know that He knows me by name, and I have often seen the results of prayers answered.

May God continue to bless, use and guide you. Awesome story about our awesome God.

Wow, Anna. That is quite a testimony to the power of God and the power of Scripture speaking to you. Praise God!

Your story about Scripture speaking to you personally makes a very trenchant point about the CC’s teaching on "personal interpretation’. We most definitely believe that God speaks to us individually through Scripture, i.e. we are all called to read Scripture and personalize it, like you did.

We are just commanded not to use the Scriptures to create false doctrines. Thus, if our "personal interpretation’ contradicts the guardian and Final Interpreter of Scripture (i.e. the Magisterium), then we must change our doctrine to fit the Truth.

In your case, God spoke quite clearly to you through the Scripture and your testimony gives greater Glory to God and His Word!

Anna, Thank you for that wonderful testimony. I don’t think anyone will find it offensive or uncomfortable. Praise God for your healing.

As to the Binding and loosing, and the Binding and Casting out, I would say they are two seperate things.

You prayed in faith, saying to the mountain (cancer) be removed from there (bound up) and cast into the sea (cast out), and it was done.
PJM has already addressed the meanings of the terms used in Mt 16 and I cannot add anything to his excellent post.

Peace
James

Jmcrae, PJM, PRmerger, JRKH:

Thank you all for your kind responses to my story.

I do carefully consider your words regarding the authority of the Catholic Church. I think about this more often than you realize.

One of the things that has kept me from embracing the authority of the Catholic Church (aside from a lifetime of Protestant indoctrination ) is the issue of interpretation of Scripture.

I believe God’s Word is “living and active”; and I believe God can use His Word in an infinite number of ways to accomplish His Divine Purposes.

I am not referring to an infinite number of doctrines, though Protestantism seems to have gone to “infinity and beyond.”

Reading only a few of my Posts, will easily reveal my frustration in the Protestant Sector and the “sea of voices.”

I’ll keep praying,
Anna

 

[JRKH]

Jmcrae, PJM, PRmerger, JRKH:

 

[Anna_Scott]

Jmcrae, PJM, PRmerger, JRKH:

Thank you all for your kind responses to my story.

I do carefully consider your words regarding the authority of the Catholic Church. I think about this more often than you realize.

One of the things that has kept me from embracing the authority of the Catholic Church (aside from a lifetime of Protestant indoctrination ) is the issue of interpretation of Scripture.

I believe God’s Word is “living and active”; and I believe God can use His Word in an infinite number of ways to accomplish His Divine Purposes.

I am not referring to an infinite number of doctrines, though Protestantism seems to have gone to “infinity and beyond.”

Reading only a few of my Posts, will easily reveal my frustration in the Protestant Sector and the “sea of voices.”

I’ll keep praying,
Anna

This is also a catholic view.
We ALL can gain specific help from specific passages in specific situations. No reason why we shouldn’t. To use your testimony, the Church would NOT say you were wrong in how you applied “Bind and Loose” to your situation. It would only be a problem is you tried to teach that this was the ONLY meaning of “Bind and Loose”.

The problem comes when there is confusion/conflict about issues pertaining to faith and morals. That is where the authority of the Church comes in. To settle specific items that cause “dis-ease” in the body of Christ. Then the Church authoritatively “Treats” this “dis-ease” to restore the health of the Church community, the Body of Christ.

Does this help?

Peace
James

This is actually very helpful. I think there is a serious misunderstanding in the Protestant Sector about the CC’s authority on the issue of interpretation of Scripture. That’s one of the reasons these Forums are so helpful in clearing up misconceptions.

Anna

 

[JRKH]

This is actually very helpful. I think there is a serious misunderstanding in the Protestant Sector about the CC’s authority on the issue of interpretation of Scripture. That’s one of the reasons these Forums are so helpful in clearing up misconceptions.

Anna

Anna, Yes. Just to be clear, the church DOES hold the authority to difinitively interpret scripture. However, in nearly 2000 years, except for a handful of verses, she has not done so. Also I think that the CC is more cognizant of the idea that some terms or passages have more than one application. The definition of “Church” is one. Many protestants accept the “Body of Believers” definition while staunchly rejecting the “authority” or “governing” aspect of Church. The CC sees both. The Structure is there to help guide and protect the Body of believers. Therefore “Church” means both things.

I also think that the CC is misunderstood on another level. She is probably the richest repository of historical information on christianity in the World. Not just her own history, but history on many heresies and ideas and other faith systems that have developed over the centuries. She is like the great encyclopedia of things historical and theological.

Peace
James

 

[Bill_Pick]

You are too rigid. It is okay the Catholic church has errors. So what who cares? You do not have to serve a perfect church. We Protestants know that our churches have errors. No big deal. Relax everything is cool. God has no errors thus both Catholics and Protestants can be confident in that. Denominations only point to God. They are not God. If one points better than another good for them, it does not mean to close the other down.
As to authority on earth. There is only one ultimate authority. That is God. The Roman Catholic church is not God, it is a denomination. The Roman Catholic church did not create the earth. God is God. God is love. He is the ultimate authority, none shall ever take His place.
The church can very well have God’s words but the ultimate authority over every man woman and child is the Spirit of God directing them.
NEVER PUT SOMETHING IN GOD"S PLACE WITH SOMETHING ELSE.

Lets get one thing right The Cathloic Church is NOT a denomination.

 

[Justy90]

Just because someone has never read the CCC doesn’t make him a heretic. After all, prior to 1994, 100% of Catholics had never read it - it wasn’t out, yet.

That firmly solidifies the notion of Catholics blindly following and not knowing their own beliefs. How in the world can you follow Jesus when you don’t even know what your church teaches??

It’s called the Holy Spirit, not exclusive man-made authority.

 

[jmcrae]

It’s called the Holy Spirit, not exclusive man-made authority.

The Holy Spirit has always spoken through human authorities.

In the Old Testament the Holy Spirit spoke through Abraham, Moses, and the Prophets. In the New Testament, the Holy Spirit spoke through Christ. In modern times, the Holy Spirit speaks through Christ’s Church, which He set up with Peter at its head as the first Pope, and the rest of the Apostles, and the Bishops, together with the faithful.

 

[JRKH]

It’s called the Holy Spirit, not exclusive man-made authority.

If this were so, then there would be one “denomination” out there instead of many hundreds or thousands with differing and conflicitn doctrines and beliefs. EACH ONE claiming “Spirit Guided” interpretation.

Peace
James

 

[wisdomseeker]

Leveling a charge of blasphemy like this, to a christian is absolutely astonishing.
On what basis do you carry on like this?

do you believe that one can blaspheme against God?
do you believe in the Trinity?
do you believe the CC to be the One True Church?

 

[wisdomseeker]

It’s called the Holy Spirit, not exclusive man-made authority.

yep. i guess you would say the same thing if you heard the Apostles claiming authority over the Church then. unless you dont think they were men.

just because you have the Bible, it does not give you the right to not be in the CC. it does not mean one can be independent from the Church Jesus built.

the Bible is not a ticket to freedom from the CC. the HS does not lead a person away from the CC. a man does. ML, Calvin, henry the VIII, wesley. these are the men who lead people away from the CC. repent and see the Light.

:byzsoc:

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Jmcrae, PJM, PRmerger, JRKH:

 

[Bill_Pick]

Amen to that! Well put.
mlz

I found this to from Bob Stanly===World Christianity Encyclopedia, April 2001, a Protestant publication,
lists 33,820 non-Catholic sects with several more being added each and every week.
Flash! The figure for the middle of 2004 has now risen to 37,000, an increase of 3180 in just three years.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Jmcrae, PJM, PRmerger, JRKH: Thank you all for your kind responses to my story.

I do carefully consider your words regarding the authority of the Catholic Church. I think about this more often than you realize.

One of the things that has kept me from embracing the authority of the Catholic Church (aside from a lifetime of Protestant indoctrination ) is the issue of interpretation of Scripture.

I believe God’s Word is “living and active”; and I believe God can use His Word in an infinite number of ways to accomplish His Divine Purposes.

I am not referring to an infinite number of doctrines, though Protestantism seems to have gone to “infinity and beyond.”

Reading only a few of my Posts, will easily reveal my frustration in the Protestant Sector and the “sea of voices.”

I’ll keep praying,
Anna

I also believe that individuals can and should seek God’s will in scripture. However, when it comes to doctrine, I believe God has given us a steady hand so that Christians can truly be united as Jesus and the Father are united.

Jesus prays for his apostles:

John 17

16They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

Jesus Prays for All Believers
20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me** through their** message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.

CHESTERTONRULES:

Hey, so nice that you followed the link.

This issue of doctrine and authority of the Church is very serious.

When you come across my Posts, it doesn’t take long to see that I am struggling in the Protestant Sector.

Yet, making that leap into Catholicism requires the acceptance of an entirely different way of understanding Christianity. Having spent my 54 years in the Protestant Sector; the idea of relinquishing authority is extremely difficult—even though I am painfully aware of all the divisions within Protestantism.

I’m here. So, that does say something about my search.

Anna