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Justy90
Guest
That seems quite contradicting considering what the Catholic church says regarding Peter.
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Justy90
Guest
It surely seems very odd to me also that when St. Paul was preaching to the Romans (25-30AD or so) he never made any mention whatsoever about the first Pope of the Catholic church being martyred. It strikes me as profoundly strange that if Catholicism is correct in what its doctrine teaches regarding the primacy of Peter, then why would the Scriptures be totally silent on this?
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
You deny that the body of Jesus is present in the bread, right?
Here’s the King James version:
29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.
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NotTooSmart
Guest
Who says I deny. It seems as though a lot of folks here are telling me what I believe. Actually my beliefs on this subject are very simple, perhaps maddengly so.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
That’s why I put a question mark at the end. I should have worded it differently though, sorry.
So you believe in the literal presence of Jesus in the Eucharist?
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luke1_28
Guest
Others have been the judge of that - and as far as my belief in the Scriptures - it’s simpler than yours. I have some peeps with 2000 years experience do it for me. Less confusion that way and I am always - ALWAYS - guaranteed the most accurate interpretation of Scripture. I am never left guessing to self interpretation.
It is not your right as a child of God to tell God what you should believe. It is God’s will that He should tell YOU what YOU should believe.
For 2000 years the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass has only been celebrated validly in ONE Church. One New Testament verse does not justify a belief in the Eucharist. The whole context of the Bible does. From start to finish - the Bible is the Word. The Word existed always with the Father. The Old Testament documents the preparation of the whole world for the reception of The Word made flesh. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. Christ, the Word of God made flesh is who we become one with in the Eucharist and if churches do not have a valid priesthood via Apostolic Succession, then God save you. “Unless you eat My Body and drink My Blood, you cannot have My Life within you”.
This is God the Father’s will. One Church celebrating the One Holy Sacrifice of the Mass made perfect in Christ. It is the everlasting spotless Sacrifice offered from the rising of the sun to the setting thereof.
I am off to Mass now. I will offer my Eucharist up for you.
May the Holy Spirit overshadow you - and enlighten you in Jesus’ name. Amen.
God bless you,
luke1_28
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NotTooSmart
Guest
I am going to go maddengly simple on you.
I believe “this is my body” “this is my blood”. No need to theologize the statements of Jesus.
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NotTooSmart
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PJM
Guest
Friend,
I must disagree with you. There in an absolute and factual sense, by necessity a number of key differences.
Please don’t think I’m braging, nagging or being difficult. I’m simply sharing the truth as it actually is.
The Catholic Church was Founded directly by the Will, and express intent of Jesus Christ Himself. [Mt. 16:]
All other Churches are stared by “mortal men.”
**2 Cor. 13: “8 **For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth.”
John 8: 31”Jesus then said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
Gal. 2: “5 to them we did not yield submission even for a moment, that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.”
**John 14: 16 **" And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him;"
John 17: 15 I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.*** As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth. *** To be clear these are the words of the God we profess to love and obey?
One can be certain Chrsit is speaking obout the Apostles and His One Church, because there would be no other Christian church for another 1500 years.
Therefore, the singular truth on all matter of faith and morals rest in the Inspired and protectd arms of God Himself, in His One Church, founded not by mortal man, but an All Perfect God! So anyone seeking truth outside of the Catholic Church, has an impossible task. It simply cannot be found in TOTAL, except in the manner and place seleced from all time, His Catholuc Church.
Without the truth, there CANNOT BE proper understanding.
2 Peter 3: 14 –17 14 Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
Love and prayers friend,
J
JacktheCatholic
Guest
It is the Gospel of Chestertonrules chapter 1.
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JacktheCatholic
Guest
Since “Scripture” is the chosen books by the Catholic Church and cannonized around the 4th or 5th century from several councils where 27 books were chosen for the NT and 46 for the OT it seems strange that you deny the same Church that chose the books as Scripture.
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NotTooSmart
Guest
Let us just say that I don’t interpret these Scriptures in the same way you do.
But the statement there was no other church for 1500 years is not factual.
The East broke off in the 1000s I do believe.
The Oriental Orthodox in the 300s or 400s methinks.
And this neglects groups like the Kerala church that was founded by the Apostle Thomas and flourished by itself for quite a long period before the west rediscovered it.
And the Orthodox claim that you broke off from them and that they were the church founded by Christ.
So even your beloved metric of lineage fails to point to one and only one Christian group.
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NotTooSmart
Guest
Gosh who could predict this? A “we gave you guys the Bible” statement.Since “Scripture” is the chosen books by the Catholic Church and cannonized around the 4th or 5th century from several councils where 27 books were chosen for the NT and 46 for the OT it seems strange that you deny the same Church that chose the books as Scripture.
Just because God graciously decided to use men in the apostolic church to join in His work of discerning Scripture, it does not follow that your denomination and your denomination only is “the one true church” with everybody else of inferior status.
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JacktheCatholic
Guest
NotTooSmart…Gosh who could predict this? A “we gave you guys the Bible” statement.
Just because God graciously decided to use men in the apostolic church to join in His work of discerning Scripture, it does not follow that your denomination and your denomination only is “the one true church” with everybody else of inferior status.
One only needs to study Christianity from it’s birth to today to know that the Catholic Church has Infallibly taught what God has given us even if the people in this One Holy and Apostolic Church were Fallible.
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NotTooSmart
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If you substitute “has claimed to infallibly” taught for “infallibly taught” then I might agree with you.
But maybe not. After all the dogma of infallability is what 150 years old or so.
If find no evidence from reading the writings of your alleged first pope, that he considered himself incapable of being incorrect when speaking on faith and morals. Or for that matter the writings of your fourth pope (I think if that is what Clement is).
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NotTooSmart
Guest
If you substitute “has claimed to infallibly” taught for “infallibly taught” then I might agree with you.
But maybe not. After all the dogma of infallability is what 150 years old or so.
If find no evidence from reading the writings of your alleged first pope, that he considered himself incapable of being incorrect when speaking on faith and morals. Or for that matter the writings of your fourth pope (I think if that is what Clement is).
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Justy90
Guest
Yeah, imagine that! Circular reasoning at its finest. The only problem is that you cannot put God and his true followers into a box, as circular as it may be. The truth shall set you free.Gosh who could predict this? A “we gave you guys the Bible” statement.
Just because God graciously decided to use men in the apostolic church to join in His work of discerning Scripture, it does not follow that your denomination and your denomination only is “the one true church” with everybody else of inferior status.
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Justy90
Guest
Laughable to say the very least.It is the Gospel of Chestertonrules chapter 1.
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PJM
Guest
resides in Christ one church, so anyone seeking it outsice His One Church, simply can’t find it. Impossible:thumbsup:
Nice try
But I said "Catholic, NOT Roman Catholic, and these churches remain Catholic.What the heck are you talking about? I’m a life long, pretty well informed Catholic and at age 65 have never heard of this. My how rumors are started.
The point is mute: both remain Catholic!
Consider this dear friend.
The Catholic Church was Founded by Jesus Himself. FACT
That same Church was in the Roman Governance, dedicated by Jesus to The Father, and promised TRUTH would remain in Her [ONLY in Her] by Jesus Himself. Please read John 18;15:18 and take note of verse 17.
John 14: 16 And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.
I would point out that even if your correct, your not, but I will not be divereted from THEE TRUTH, the bible was completely written and fully Inspired by the end of the First Century, when noone can didpute that the ONLY Christian Church was the Catholic Church we know today as the RCC. Therefore everything in the Bible Inspired by an All Wise and All Perfect God has to apply specifically, and in many cases, exclusively to Her, the RCC!
Love and prayers friend, truth is a difficult thing to disprove , but OH SO EASY to deny.
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JacktheCatholic
Guest
The Infallibility doctrine goes back to the beginning. As you have accepted that God divinely guided men to choose the correct books so adequately shows you too see this in the Early Church.
So the only part of your post that seems contradictory is the Dogmatic portion. But just as you believe the books were devinely chosen and/or written so too do you believe in that Dogma. After all what is Dogma except that one sees as a absolute truth?
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