Paul is not talking about the 27 books of the New Testament. There is no New Testament yet.Ok, you need to give a list of the things that are in those 27 books that is vital for salvation That is not in the 66 books of my bible. If you cannot then the information in my bible is sufficient and the point is moot.
Isaiah 8:20Hi daddyd: yes that is true enough but how you know that the Holy Spirit is really guiding you do you test the spirits? or do you just understand it because you think the Holy Spirit is guiding you to the truth and the understanding of it?
It sounds like we had parallel roads towards the Church.Hi Isaiah,
Thanks for your response.
Most of the conversions I know of (including my own) have a similar element. I investigated issue after issue, comparing the arguments of both sides (Prot and Cat), Scripture, the Fathers, and in each case, came to the conclusion that the Catholic position was correct, shocking me each time. After all, aren’t Protestants more “Scriptural”? When it came down to the last few issues that had not been resolved in my mind, I began to TRUST and to understand the concept of the Authority of the Church. As you put it, I ‘yielded’.
The ‘hunt for truth’ though presumes the importance of that truth. What I have found is that many people are much less concerned about doctrinal truth than they are about the ‘community aspect’ of a particular congregation, or the music or the seating. The Reformers must be rolling over in their graves. THEY were extremely concerned with doctrine and yet, those who are their followers – not so much.
God Bless You Isaiah, Topper
I agree Jon,I think you are absolutely right. It was true for me in Protestant upbringing. I went to Baptist, evangelical, non denoms, and even Pentecostal. All that mattered was a welcoming community that gave me what I wanted.
I will admit, my question was to get the Protestants stumbling onto this page something to think about. Something that would never even cross their mind in most cases.
The KJV works for me.Paul is not talking about the 27 books of the New Testament. There is no New Testament yet.
Paul is speaking about the Old Testament. And he specifically said that all] Scripture is breathed by God.
However, Paul didn’t give a list.
So what do you think are the Scriptures that Paul is talking about?
And, more importantly:
Why is this more important?What did Christians for hundreds of years used as Scriptures?
Hi daddyd: yes, I understand that but you did not answer the question which was how do you know that the Holy Spirit is guiding you and not another spirit making you think you are being guided by the Holy Spirit?Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
I think that I did answer your question. The bible is inspired by God right?Hi daddyd: yes, I understand that but you did not answer the question which was how do you know that the Holy Spirit is guiding you and not another spirit making you think you are being guided by the Holy Spirit?
You may not be willing to concede it Jon, but that does not change the facts, and in fact, the Scholars, common sense and reason all disagree with you. If the reason for ‘divergent beliefs’ is actually ‘complex’, then please flesh out your thoughts on the matter, taking into account the massive denominalization that has occurred within the Sola Scriptura denominations.I am not willing to concede that sola scriptura is the cause of divergent beliefs. I consider that a simplistic explanation. The fact is that division had been there long before the 1500’s.
Holding an opinion is a FAR CRY from deciding doctrinal matters on your own, which is exactly what started the ‘Reformation’.Further, to hold an opinion does not require one have authority.
I very much appreciate the statement that you are willing to discuss Luther’s beliefs and opinions. Many of the things that have been revealed here about Luther are well established facts, facts that are germane to these discussions. For the record, ‘bad behavior’ is not all that telling in anyone or in any group. What is obviously un-Christian teaching though is.Finally, I am always willing to discuss Luther’s beliefs and opinions, when its germane. What I am not willing to do is permit someone to require me to defend a Luther opinion I disagree with, or defend his bad behavior (I don’t ask Catholics to defend bad behavior in their leaders either), etc.
Like I said, I think that you would gain something from reading the book. You don’ t think so, but then I have read the book and you haven’t. If you are ‘not willing to concede that sola scriptura is the cause of divergent beliefs’, then I would double my recommendation that you read this book by this wonderful Protestant Theologian and Church Historian. The book again is:While I think I understand these matters pretty, I appreciate the recommendation.
Was King James of England in the 17th century divinely inspired? Or perhaps you hold that the apostles were walking around with their KJV’s preaching after it floated down from heaven. (I’ve heard it before)The KJV works for me.
Why is this more important?
Hi Daddyd: No You did not answer the question. How do you personally know that the Holy Spirit is guiding you to understand what Scripture is saying and meaning? without using Scripture as an answer but your own words.I think that I did answer your question. The bible is inspired by God right?
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
Actually the Holy Spirit.
2Peter1
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
The law and the testimony is just another name for scripture. So if you do not speak according to the what it says in the law and the testimony (the bible) You are not speaking according to the movement of God’s Holy Spirit.
Since you are ignoring the questions and you bring up a great example.The KJV works for me.
Because there is no list in Scriptures of what is Scriptures. So what we have is what those before us have walked in our Lord Jesus Christ.Why is this more important?
AWESOME POINT!!!Since you are ignoring the questions and you bring up a great example.
Do you have the Original KJV or the short version?
Because there is no list in Scriptures of what is Scriptures. So what we have is what those before us have walked in our Lord Jesus Christ.
First of all, an observation: There have been more than 100 posts to this thread the last 24 hours. People are extremely interested in these very important discussions. The more difficult the question or point, like that in your opening post, the greater the interest.It is really beyond my comprehension that you cannot see that sola Scriptura is not the cause of divergent Christian Beliefs. Even before the reformation it was a transfer of authority from the church to scripture and personal opinion that caused heresies.
In your mind what causes this exponential growth of division if not sola Scriptura and rejection of the Church’s teaching authority??
How could there be divergent beliefs if everyone submitted to the church and her teaching authority?
Well yes I did. The Holy Spirit inspires scripture. If you lead your life according to what scripture says, you are leading it according to the movement of God’s Spirit. I don’t know how I can put it any better.Hi Daddyd: No You did not answer the question. How do you personally know that the Holy Spirit is guiding you to understand what Scripture is saying and meaning? without using Scripture as an answer but your own words.
What do you mean ignoring the question? Here’s what you postedSince you are ignoring the questions and you bring up a great example.
Originally Posted by Isaiah45_9 View Post
Paul is not talking about the 27 books of the New Testament. There is no New Testament yet.
Paul is speaking about the Old Testament. And he specifically said that [all] Scripture is breathed by God.
However, Paul didn’t give a list.
To which I replied: The KJV works for me. Now, how is this ignoring your question?So what do you think are the Scriptures that Paul is talking about?
I have the KJVDo you have the Original KJV or the short version?
I have a list. It’s right in the beginning of my bible.Because there is no list in Scriptures of what is Scriptures. So what we have is what those before us have walked in our Lord Jesus Christ.
But you cannot tell us how to interpret it properly. The Mormon would say the same thing and would say he is following the spirit and the scripture.Well yes I did. The Holy Spirit inspires scripture. If you lead your life according to what scripture says, you are leading it according to the movement of God’s Spirit. I don’t know how I can put it any better.
The list is man made. It’s not part of the inspired word. Anyone will tell you so, Protestant or not.What do you mean ignoring the question? Here’s what you posted
To which I replied: The KJV works for me. Now, how is this ignoring your question?
I have the KJV
I have a list. It’s right in the beginning of my bible.
Would you or your church interpret the scriptures differently than what I have posted? If so how? maybe I got it wrong?But you cannot tell us how to interpret it properly. The Mormon would say the same thing and would say he is following the spirit and the scripture.
So all you have presented is “follow the scripture as I “daddyd” interpret it”
Jon
OkThe list is man made. It’s not part of the inspired word. Anyone will tell you so, Protestant or not.
The KJV originally included the books you reject. For 245 yrs they were in the KJV.
Hard to know unless you tell us what you believe or what denomination your in. But if you are not Catholic, I am sure there are parts you are interpreting wrong (such as John 6 we posted earlier).Would you or your church interpret the scriptures differently than what I have posted? If so how? maybe I got it wrong?