I am glad you are confident…
How do you get this from
Why would you say something like this guanophore? You obviously don’t know anything about what I believe about salvation. And actually my beliefs are gleaned directly from scripture.
Convince me otherwise than what I’ve quoted above?
You seriously do not think that information about our salvation and how we are to obtain it should be a consideration? The bible in my opinion is the STORY OF SALVATION and that salvation is realized in Jesus Christ. The books of the bible that I read tell that story well enough for me. I do not think that this is a “stupid” or “silly” idea and it was not posted to inflame. I find it incredulous that you do.
The origin of the book is God. But suppose that I agree with you that it was written by the CC. Why would knowing that or not knowing that make it difficult to talk about it?
I can already rule out Mormons. Joseph Smith said things would happen that never did. Joseph Smith didn’t live to the age he said he would, and the second coming of Christ never came in his lifetime as he prophesied. Why their cult continues to exist, despite concrete and biblical evidence completely debunking that man, I don’t know.
Sounds good, so as a fundamentalist how do you determine the books that belong in your Bible?
Yes
I guess so.Indeed He does. Many questions have been posed to you in this thread about how God is speaking through the Scriptures. You seem to have missed them.
Questioning my salvation again guanophore?
I don’t. Men under the guidance of The Holy Spirit did that for us. It’s the Word of God, and he keeps his promises. How do you as a Catholic determine that a man elected by other men has the final say so in all matters concerning your church, rather than what God says in The Bible, then excommunicate anyone that says he’s wrong based on scriptural evidence (e.g. Martin Luther)?
It’s ok for everyone to use the version that they are comfortable with. Why is this such an offensive idea for you?
Why would this make it an odd request?
What I am trying to get at is that if there is nothing in those books that leads us to Christ, why bother with them?
I believe that all the scriptures that Paul was talking about are contained in the KJV
How is anything I have said a deviation from what the bible says?
The bible.
If your bible works for you then by all means use it. Just don’t condemn me for using mine.
It doesn’t have to have a chapter and verse it’s all through the bible. You don’t believe this?
What’s your point here Jon? You don’t think that the bible shows us the way to salvation?
Hi daddyd: Yes, I get that. One should try to live as Christ taught that has been passed on by the Apostles through the CC as I see it. But how do you know that you understand want Scripture says and means? How does one know if it is really the Holy Spirit guiding one to the meaning of Scripture? There are of course parts of Scripture that can be easy to understand, but there is much of Scripture that is most difficult to understand what it is saying and what it means, and one has need as Scripture says to test the spirits to see if it is true or not since the evil one can appear brighter than light fooling one into believing that they know when one does not really know.
I do, but sadly there are many wrong interpretations of the Bible that do not lead to salvation. The Bible only leads to salvation if read the way the authors intended. The church tells us what the authors intended.
I think this is because one of the foundations of the Reformation is that the Pope and the Councils can be fallible. That translates to “we see through a glass darkly” (no one has all the Truth) so one is left with trying to sort out the most amount of Truth possible.
Well, I am not sure who “we” are that are seeing this, but in the time of the Reformation, corruption among the clerics in Europe was rampant. Had this not been the case, the fertile ground for the Reformation would not have been such great soil for the sowing of the seeds embedded in the Reformation.
I think it is a mistake to fall into such numerical comparisons. It can be easily shown by any poll, Catholic and otherwise, that the majority of persons (esp in the US) that claim to be Catholic are not Catholic in their faith and practice. They are sacramentalized (if even that) but not evangelized. These “numbers” do not really present any plausible defense for the Truth.
I am not interested in a quibble, but a source would be much appreciated.
On the contrary, I think this is exactly what the data shows. It is the pride of every person who rejects tradition and the authority that Christ established. I also agree that Sola Scriptura is the primary method by which these sins of separation are fueled.
In fact there are many that have had to abandon their beloved communions which have fallen into modernism. It is ironic that JonNC, whose faith you and others on CAF continually badger, is one who has been grieved by the seepage of secularism into his faith communion. And yet, it is the hostile attitude of Catholics disparaging their faith that makes them reluctant to cross the Tiber.
SS is a practice that is used to justiiy the sin of separation. Those who uphold the primacy of Scripture as the authority by which practices should be judged do not necessarily uphold the sin of separation.
I am sure you believe you have answered the question. But really, all you have done is consistently assert that you believe you are interpreting the Scripture according to the Holy Spirit because of what you understand Scripture to be saying. This position does nothing to explain how others, equally sincere about their faith, can come up with an opposite conclusion. I think you can’t put it any better because you have never really thought about it.
You have ignored most of the questions that have been addressed to you in this thread.
Basically, ,then I guess you are saying that you really have no idea how the books got into your Bible, or how it was determined that they belong there. Someone has told you or you chose to believe that the KJV is the “inspired” by God version, and that it “works for you”.
From whence came it? Why does your Bible not have the same books used by the Apostles?
And which Apostle wrote that? Or did Jesus give you that list?
I thought you couldn’t get it wrong because the Holy Spirit is leading you?
Since it seems to be of no concern to you that you are using a collection of Scriptures different than the one used by Jesus and His disciples, and that you are using a collection derived from a list that is not inspired, it really does not seem that you have much respect for your Bible after all.
No, you have not. You have been quoting Scriptures. You have made it clear that you believe there is no difference between what is written, and your perception of what is written.
No, it is being pointed out to you that your perception of what Scripture says and what the Apostles and their disciples believed is different.
Exactly! Why are you on CAF? You don’t appear to be here to get any “Catholic Answers”. You ignore the questions posed to you. You claim you have everything you need in your truncated bible…
This can be easily gleaned from the context. Timothy was born in Lystra (modern Turkey). He came from a family of diasporic Jews (on his mother’s side). They used a Greek version of the Scriptures called the Septuagint.
While this is not a factual statement, it is also not relevant. The Fathers, scholars, and doctors of the Church always subjected their personal opinions to the Magesterium (teaching authority appointed by Christ). In fact, the recent discovery of the dead sea scrolls confirmed what the Church declared. All these books did exist in the original Hebrew, and that they should not be excluded from the canon because no original manuscripts could be found.
This is like saying that the Church did not believe in the Trinity until it was “officially declared” by the council. Or that Jesus was not considered fully God and fully man until the term “hypostatic union” was coined. Declarations are made by the Church when there is rampant heresy. It is simply a statement that this truth is something we have received from the Apostles. Do you think no one believed that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary until the term “Theotokos” was used for her?