Protestants: How do you determine which denomination holds the truth?

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Per Crucem;11945129]We’ve answered several thousand times on this forum lol. You first.
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A thousand times…

Me first…OK. 😃

Jesus said: And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

To me the historical church of Matthew 16, established by Jesus is the Catholic church to which Ignatius of Antioch and Augustine belonged. I also believe that His one church, due to schism, divided, resulting in two churches, and hope one day that they will reunite. Both the EOC and the CC have apostolic pedigree and graced-filled sacraments, therefore I would have no problem belonging to the EOC.
I’m not the one making the claim that any of them are the infallible one true church. I don’t have to belong to any of them. You, however, are making that claim. The burden of proof there is on you.
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I never said that Jesus’ church is comprised of infallible leaders. Jesus’ infallibly guides His one church , comprised of all fallible, sinful leaders. I understand that you do not believe that God infallibly guides His one church into all truth, and that’s cool. 👍
 
benhur said:
Partly. Just like I don’t think He inspired the Immaculate Conception but He most certainly does inspire veneration of Mary. He definitely is weaving the tapestry that is the Body. Yes, He desires unity but… He also desires that we be perfect but… Everything not Catholic is not necessarily part of the Body to address your “all”. Because I am not under the bondage of infallibility founders can be Holy Spirit inspired on much but not necessarily on all. But like Augustine said one can over analyze truths and have “many words”, even to vain disputations. The apostles creed was quite universal for a reason-limited words…May we bite our tongues in declaring what we think is legal or "binding’’ beyond universality, unlike the Pharisees.
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Really? So the Holy Spirit is also responsible for the array of teachings too? I do not need to list them because the list is so long.

If the Holy Spirit is “partly” responsible,then I am curious?

Why doesn’t the HS also guide them to avoid the array of teachings?
 
Per_Crucem said:
Absolutely.

Do you have a way to determine which church that is supposedly infallible and possesses the correct interpretation of Scripture and Tradition, currently in at least 4 schisms (Roman, Eastern, Oriental and Assyrian), is the true church? (One that doesn’t depend on itself, as that would be circular.)
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The Church in full communion with the Successor of Peter is, they are not in schicm unless they separate from him in which case they are no longer part of the Catholic Church.

What Church is in schism?

The Roman Pontiff, as the successor of Peter, is the perpetual and visible principle and foundation of unity of both the bishops and of the faithful.
LUMEN GENTIUM, 23

In exercising supreme, full, and immediate power in the universal Church, the Roman pontiff makes use of the departments of the Roman Curia which, therefore, perform their duties in his name and with his authority for the good of the churches and in the service of the sacred pastors.
CHRISTUS DOMINUS, 9

One department of the Curia is the congregation for Oriental Churches.

One thing is clear, it’s impossible for the Catholic Church to have schisms within it, for those not in communion with the Roman Pontiff are not part of the Catholic Church.
 
Per_Crucem said:
No, I don’t. So who infallibly interprets history to tell us which church is the true church?
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No one infallibly interprets history. What we all know about history is that none of the Protestant churches claim to be the historical church established by Jesus. That is a good starting point. From there each and every person must use their best judgement to locate the church established by Jesus, to which the apostles belonged. 🤷
 
Paul_Edwards said:
The Church in full communion with the Successor of Peter is, they are not in schicm unless they separate from him in which case they are no longer part of the Catholic Church.

What Church is in schism?

The Roman Pontiff, as the successor of Peter, is the perpetual and visible principle and foundation of unity of both the bishops and of the faithful.
LUMEN GENTIUM, 23

In exercising supreme, full, and immediate power in the universal Church, the Roman pontiff makes use of the departments of the Roman Curia which, therefore, perform their duties in his name and with his authority for the good of the churches and in the service of the sacred pastors.
CHRISTUS DOMINUS, 9

One department of the Curia is the congregation for Oriental Churches.

One thing is clear, it’s impossible for the Catholic Church to have schisms within it, for those not in communion with the Roman Pontiff are not part of the Catholic Church.
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Seems reasonable…
 
Per_Crucem said:
Don’t worry about what I have, for the moment. Do you believe that history can determine which church is the true church?
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I do not worry,because you have no other source.

Which begs the question:

Then why bother with history at all,if it cannot be used as source?

So if one wants to learn about the Civil War or the founding of the Methodist church-history needs to be tossed or considered invalid?
 
joe371 said:
No one infallibly interprets history. What we all know about history is that none of the Protestant churches claim to be the historical church established by Jesus. That is a good starting point. From there each and every person must use their best judgement to locate the church established by Jesus, to which the apostles belonged. 🤷
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Of course we do.
 
Nicea325 said:
Really? So the Holy Spirit is also responsible for the array of teachings too? I do not need to list them because the list is so long.

If the Holy Spirit is “partly” responsible,then I am curious?

Why doesn’t the HS also guide them to avoid the array of teachings?
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I don’t think doctrinal truth is as important to non-Catholics (Protestants that is), which is why they do not claim to possess it, with certainty. Most will simply say that there is no way to infallibly identify doctrinal truth, in a world where doctrinal disunity is so prevalent, and at the same time claim that their bible is the infallible word of God, given to them by the Catholic Church. 🤷
 
joe371 said:
Jesus said: And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
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Why should I trust your fallible interpretation of Matthew 16?
Both the EOC and the CC have apostolic pedigree and graced-filled sacraments, therefore I would have no problem belonging to the EOC.
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They don’t claim the same for you, you know.
I never said that Jesus’ church is comprised of infallible leaders. Jesus’ infallibly guides His one church , comprised of all fallible, sinful leaders. I understand that you do not believe that God infallibly guides His one church into all truth, and that’s cool. 👍
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I never said anything about infallible leaders.
 
Per_Crucem said:
No, I don’t. So who infallibly interprets history to tell us which church is the true church?
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I did not know written history was infallible or written by infallible men? Infallibility is one topic of concern and historical context is another.
 
Per Crucem;11945223]Why should I trust your fallible interpretation of Matthew 16?
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Great point; you shouldn’t. Who should you trust if not me you or anyone else?
 
joe371 said:
No one infallibly interprets history.
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True. However, we’re not the one making the argument that unless your interpreter is infallible, you can’t really know. So I can understand that you say that no one infallibly interprets history. I would agree with that. You’re then left with a fallible interpretation to tell you which church is infallible. And this is different from us, how again?
 
Nicea325 said:
Really? So the Holy Spirit is also responsible for the array of teachings too? I do not need to list them because the list is so long.

If the Holy Spirit is “partly” responsible,then I am curious?

Why doesn’t the HS also guide them to avoid the array of teachings?
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Is God responsible for Adam’s fall ? Why doesn’t He just make us perfect ? God is partly responsible for every word uttered here on CAF. I am sure you can figure it out and see God’s “part” in it all.
 
Per Crucem;11945223]Why should I trust your fallible interpretation of Matthew 16?
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They don’t claim the same for you, you know.

That does not bother me…👍
 
Per_Crucem said:
Why should I trust your fallible interpretation of Matthew 16?

They don’t claim the same for you, you know.

I never said anything about infallible leaders.
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Fallible? But that is not ours,but the Church. Tell me something-which denomination has the correct interpretation? Evidently hundreds of denominations all cannot have it right.

There either exists the church Christ founded with promise of the Holy Spirit or God truly is playing games with us. You tell me?
 
Per_Crucem said:
True. However, we’re not the one making the argument that unless your interpreter is infallible, you can’t really know. So I can understand that you say that no one infallibly interprets history. I would agree with that. You’re then left with a fallible interpretation to tell you which church is infallible. And this is different from us, how again?
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Let’s assume that God does not infallibly preserve doctrinal truth within the church established by Jesus in the first century. How can you and I really know, (especially since we disagree on certain doctrines) truth in light of that premise?
 
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