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Hisalone
Guest
You do realize that many of the apostles were married. The Catholic Church has decided that Jesus hmself made a poor decision and they have “improved” on it.May I add a question?
Regarding Matthew 19:12 Some men are incapable of sexual activity from birth; some have been deliberately made so; and some there are who have freely renounced sex for the sake of God’s reign. Let him accept this teaching who can.
or, if you prefer the language from King James’ day:
19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
This is a statement Jesus made regarding the celibacy of the priesthood. Why are there some Christians who have overlooked these words from Christ, from the Bible that they claim to solely adhere to?
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Holly3278
Guest
Are you kidding me? The Catholic Church has never made such a decision.
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Hisalone
Guest
So priests can get married?
Of course not. The Catholic Church has tried to improve on Jesus’ decision.
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Nita
Guest
You used the word “tradition” with a small “t”. I have to admit, by “tradition” I assumed you meant any teaching, practice, or doctrine. It’s pretty obvious that Catholic and Protestant practice/tradition contradicts the first NT Scripture passage I cited.
Catholicism distinguishes between “tradition” with a small “t” and “Tradition” with a capital “T”. For us there is a big difference: tradition can change; Tradition cannot.
Tradition (capital “T”) is the oral teaching handed on from the apostles but not included in Sacred Scripture. “It was done by the apostles who handed on, by the spoken word of their preaching, by the example they gave, by the institutions they established, what they themselves had received–whether from the lips of Christ, from His way of life and His works, or whether they had learned it by the prompting of the Holy Spirit”. (cf CCC #76 vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__PJ.HTM )
The infallible doctrines of the Church are concerned with faith and morals - and they do not contradict either Scripture or Tradition - they interpret and explain them.
I think Catholics would say that teachings and traditions (small t) are forbidden that would contradict Scripture and Tradition in areas upheld as definitive by the Magisterium.
Nita
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Nita
Guest
Yes, in some of the rites.
Not in the Latin rite however. But even within the Latin rite exceptions are sometimes made when a married Protestant minister converts and desires to continue ministry as a priest.
There are quite a few rites in the Catholic Church. The Latin rite is the largest and the one most people are most familiar with - especially in the U.S.
Nita
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Pier
Guest
Why are Christ’s words and example disregarded regarding celibacy for God’s sake? They can’t be denied, so how/why are they ignored?
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Hisalone
Guest
Why do you deny the example of Christ who chose married men to be His apostles. Do you honestly believe you can improve on His example?
Sorry, Nita for the misunderstanding. I ought to be more careful in this area. I get your point.
Jon
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Pier
Guest
He did not marry - that was His example.
To this day, the married priests do not remarry after they’ve converted. They make this choice, for God’s sake. These are Christ’s very words.
Once again, please explain why these words, spoken by Christ, are disregarded.
How can you deny them?
PS: And then, of course, there are Paul’s words, speaking of the benefits of remaining unmarried as he was. I’m sorry, I don’t know the chapter and verse exactly. And too, as I stated before, deacons in the Catholic Church can be married - I’m just not sure if they can remarry (someone else may have touched on that point.)
We can always ask an apologist…
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adamoses
Guest
Hi I would like to respond to the first verse in your question how do you explain the following 10 Bible verses.
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; (Ephesians 2:20)
The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner. (Psalms 118:22)
This is the LORD’s doing; it is marvelous in our eyes. (Psalms 118:23)
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. (Isaiah 28:16)
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the Scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes? (Matthew 21:42)
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (Matthew 21:43)
And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. (Matthew 21:44)
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. (Matthew 21:45)
But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet. (Matthew 21:46)
And have ye not read this Scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner: (Mark 12:10)
This was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes? (Mark 12:11)
And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way. (Mark 12:12)
And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? (Luke 20:17)
Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. (Luke 20:18)
And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them. (Luke 20:19)
And they watched him, and sent forth spies, which should feign themselves just men, that they might take hold of his words, that so they might deliver him unto the power and authority of the governor. (Luke 20:20)
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; (Ephesians 2:20)
Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Zion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. (1 Peter 2:6)
Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, (1 Peter 2:7)
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. (Acts 4:10)
This is the stone which was set at naught of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. (Acts 4:11)
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. (Acts 4:12)
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marveled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. (Acts 4:13)
There is only one name by which men are saved and one mediator between God and men.
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4)
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5)
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Timothy 2:6)
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: (1 John 2:1)
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; (Hebrews 3:1)
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. (Hebrews 4:14)
For we have not a high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:15)
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. (Hebrews 4:16)
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. (Hebrews 6:20)
(Underline added)
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LutheranDK
Guest
Many of these verses have been ripped from their context, and if ones does that, one can make the Bible say almost anything.Hello Protestants! I am just curious but how do you explain the following 10 Bible verses? I am quoting from the Revised Standard Version, a Bible used by both Catholics and Protestants. If you want, you can look them up in your favorite Bible version.
Mat 16:18 RSV And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 RSV I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
1Ti 3:15 RSV if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
2Th 2:15 RSV So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.
1Pe 3:21 RSV Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Joh 20:22 RSV And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
Joh 20:23 RSV If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
Joh 6:53 RSV So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
Joh 6:54 RSV he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 RSV For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Joh 6:56 RSV He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.
Joh 6:57 RSV As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.
Joh 6:58 RSV This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.”
1Co 11:27 RSV Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.
Jas 5:14 RSV Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;
Jas 5:15 RSV and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
Col 1:24 RSV Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,
Jas 2:24 RSV You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
I look forward to your answers!
I WILL ask one question, though, that I have never recieved an answer to from anyone in the Roman church:
How do you make Matt 16:18 and 16:23 come together?
Is Peter both the rock on which the Church is built, AND satan? And consequently: Is satan the rock on which your church is build?
Finally, let me say that in the verses regarding baptism, Holy Communion, and Confession, I am closer to the Roman view than the view of the left-wing of the Reformation (Calvin and Zwingli, and those even further left).
There is an irritating tendency among those “romanists” (I won’t say “papists”, and “catholics” refers not only to the Roman church) I have met here to identify “protestant” with what later became the left-wing of the Protestant movement with all the un-biblical nonsense that many of those embraced (ex: double-predestination, OSAS, etc).
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adamoses
Guest
In addition to my previous post on this question.
Jesus asks the question, …“But whom say ye that I am?” Matthew 16:15
Peter answers, …“Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Matthew 16:16
…“and upon this rock I will build my church;” Matthew 16:18, Jesus is making reference to the answer that Peter has given. Christ’s church is built upon Himself. Previous post for scriptural support.
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