Protestants: How Do You Know That Your Interpretation of the Bible is the Right one? Part II

[1beleevr]

MrS: It’s kind of like saying that John 20:23, is the basis for going to confession with priest No matter how you read this verse, or how many times, it does not say,“Go confess your sins to a priest.” I know what James 5:16 says, but I also know what 1John 1:9 says:thumbsup: Because of Jesus’s completed work on the Cross, we are able to enter the throne room of grace, and confess our sins to Him, through Christ. So you see, many different interpretations, one message:God is Love, and He is approachable through the glorious work of His Son:thumbsup: Eternal Life is, knowing the Father, and knowing the One whom He sent!!!

 

[ckempston]

Correct.

Since the Church grew on the Tradition handed to the Apostles and their successors from Christ Himself, we still have the Oral teachings and the Oral promise that the Church and His Truth would prevail. No one else could remain outside the Tradition and still claim to follow Christ.

Maybe a compromise is in order

How about we just have a NT that includes only the book(s) that actually say they are enough to teach us our salvation.

I believe that would be a short NT… only the Gospel of John.

John 20:30-31 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.
John 21:25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written

Are you up for that discussion?

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I’m usually up for any discussion, but I’m not sure I’m following exactly what it is we’d be discussing. Are you saying, can we determine salvation issues based solely on the gospel of John?

 

[ckempston]

MrS: It’s kind of like saying that John 20:23, is the basis for going to confession with priest No matter how you read this verse, or how many times, it does not say,“Go confess your sins to a priest.” I know what James 5:16 says, but I also know what 1John 1:9 says:thumbsup: Because of Jesus’s completed work on the Cross, we are able to enter the throne room of grace, and confess our sins to Him, through Christ. So you see, many different interpretations, one message:God is Love, and He is approachable through the glorious work of His Son:thumbsup: Eternal Life is, knowing the Father, and knowing the One whom He sent!!!

Do you have to publicly confess that Jesus is Lord, or can you just tell Jesus privately that he is Lord?

The word “Homologeo” does not support private confession directly to Jesus; the word itself denotes an external, vocal confession in front of at least one witness. As you point out, James 5:16 tells us to confess to “one another.” Whether that means any other Christian, or a Priest, it does not mean confess them directly to Jesus.

 

[MrS]

MrS: It’s kind of like saying that John 20:23, is the basis for going to confession with priest No matter how you read this verse, or how many times, it does not say,“Go confess your sins to a priest.” I know what James 5:16 says, but I also know what 1John 1:9 says:thumbsup: Because of Jesus’s completed work on the Cross, we are able to enter the throne room of grace, and confess our sins to Him, through Christ. So you see, many different interpretations, one message:God is Love, and He is approachable through the glorious work of His Son:thumbsup: Eternal Life is, knowing the Father, and knowing the One whom He sent!!!

Maybe, but then so is eternal death. Satan knows the Father and Son, but I don’t intend on spending etenity with him and his friends.

Jesus did not leave us orphans. Jesus did not leave us the Bible.

Jesus left us His Church. And not any other “church” qualifies as that Church.

Jesus left us His Apostles. Not any other “church” with their version of their apostles qualifies as having been selected by Jesus.

Jesus left us His plan for passing on His Truth, which is Jesus Himself. Contrary to popular “beliefs”, He did not give a revised plan to Protestants, etc. And He did not recind any of His 2000 year old plan that we enjoy in the Catholic Church.

You mentions priests. Often I hear that even “priests” are not in the NT, therefore they are a Catholic invention. Maybe a closer reading of Numbers, Jude, and Acts would clear that up. The point being, that the Teaching Authority is most critical to all who wish to be closer to Christ.

The Bible is the Book of the Catholic Church. Other groups are simply formed because of their own understanding of some or all of The Catholic Book. It is for all people in all places for all ages. But not meant for their personal interpretation, often to their own destruction. And the Bible says as much.

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[MrS]

I’m usually up for any discussion, but I’m not sure I’m following exactly what it is we’d be discussing. Are you saying, can we determine salvation issues based solely on the gospel of John?

No. I was trying to point out in a charitable way that many protestants love to use only Paul as their source of instruction. And his letters are the easiest to misuse.

The Gospels are the words of Christ. Paul, by the way only “quotes” Jesus once… and that is (as Catholics believe) in his defense of the Real Presence and what it IS, and how it is reserved for those in a state of grace in the one Church.

Can one attain heaven without Scripture. I believe yes.
Can one attain heaven without the Magisterium. I believe yes.
Can one attain heaven without the Church which is Jesus Himself, not just the body of believers. I believe NO.

Jesus is the only way to the Father.

To knowingly deny part of Jesus is to deny Jesus. I used John because I have full trust and faith in all of John 6. The Eucharist, the Real Presence, is only found in the Catholic Church. I will not walk away, … believing that unless I eat the flesh of the Son of Man I have no life in me.

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[MrS]

Do you have to publicly confess that Jesus is Lord, or can you just tell Jesus privately that he is Lord?

The word “Homologeo” does not support private confession directly to Jesus; the word itself denotes an external, vocal confession in front of at least one witness. As you point out, James 5:16 tells us to confess to “one another.” Whether that means any other Christian, or a Priest, it does not mean confess them directly to Jesus.

you sure you are not Catholic (closet, perhaps) ??

 

[NDfan]

Well we could always imagine that we wake up in the morning, and all the bibles and references to the bibles are gone.

no more books

Our separated brethren would of course be totally lost.

Catholics, on the other hand, would still have Tradition and the Magisterium.

What, you say, protestants have a tradition too… nope. That would disappear, because they developed their own traditions from our Scriptures re-interpreted to fit their own human desires.

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This is such a ridiculous statement. It would be impossible for the Bible to disappear because so many literally have it committed to memory and could reproduce it on demand. The Bible faced persecution through the ages when plenty of crazy people tried to burn all existing copies yet it still exists and exists for a reason. GOD wants it to.

We can never imagine a world without the Bible since we already have it. What we have to wonder is what would the church look like if scripture never even existed from the start. We would still have multiple denominations of Christian churches just like we do today. The gnostics, montanists, marcionites, copts, etc. etc. would still exist. I feel confident in saying the church would be even more chaotic without the existence of scripture because there would be nothing to authenticate against. And there would be no need for the magisterium since there would be no scripture from which to interpret and teach. The Pope would never be Pope because the reference to Matthew 16 among others would be completely gone. The marian doctrines already standing on weak legs would collapse completely and I could go on and on and on.

So really MrS your theory is quite humorous at best.

PEACE

 

[ckempston]

you sure you are not Catholic (closet, perhaps) ??

LOL, not quite, but I’ve come a long way from being Jack Chick-like in many of my opinions to realizing that Catholics are not Satanic nor do they worship the Pope and Mary…well, some get a little carried away, but from a doctrinal standpoint, I understand they do not do these things.

As I’ve pointed out to others, as far as interpreting Scripture, I am with the Catholic interpretation, as far as I know, 100% of the time. It is the “extra stuff” and some of the nth degree inferences drawn from various conclusions that I disagree with.

 

[MrS]

LOL, not quite, but I’ve come a long way from being Jack Chick-like in many of my opinions to realizing that Catholics are not Satanic nor do they worship the Pope and Mary…well, some get a little carried away, but from a doctrinal standpoint, I understand they do not do these things.

As I’ve pointed out to others, as far as interpreting Scripture, I am with the Catholic interpretation, as far as I know, 100% of the time. It is the “extra stuff” and some of the nth degree inferences drawn from various conclusions that I disagree with.

A fair and honest opinion is always welcomed. Thanks for the breath of fresh air.

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[MrS]

This is such a ridiculous statement. It would be impossible for the Bible to disappear because so many literally have it committed to memory and could reproduce it on demand. The Bible faced persecution through the ages when plenty of crazy people tried to burn all existing copies yet it still exists and exists for a reason. GOD wants it to.

We can never imagine a world without the Bible since we already have it. What we have to wonder is what would the church look like if scripture never even existed from the start. We would still have multiple denominations of Christian churches just like we do today. The gnostics, montanists, marcionites, copts, etc. etc. would still exist. I feel confident in saying the church would be even more chaotic without the existence of scripture because there would be nothing to authenticate against. And there would be no need for the magisterium since there would be no scripture from which to interpret and teach. The Pope would never be Pope because the reference to Matthew 16 among others would be completely gone. The marian doctrines already standing on weak legs would collapse completely and I could go on and on and on.

So really MrS your theory is quite humorous at best.

PEACE

I understand. Those who rely, erroneously, on the Bible alone would agree with you. Those who rely on Christ and the other gifts - Tradition and Magisterium - He left us would still be Catholic Christians.

Absence of a Bible in no way means absence of the Catholic beliefs and Doctrines. The Bible is ONLY a written, inspired offering of much of what the Church already held in her Tradition. (Mis)used by many, it is determental to their spiritual health.

The Church grew quickly, and was able to address heresies one after the other before the introduction of the canonized Bible. I venture to say that St Paul was much more effective in his speaking. His letters were meant for those unable to hear or re-hear his voice. And those letters simple verify some/much of what he taught.

As to the multiple denominations… their rejection of oral teaching instead of written teaching would still make them either heretics, different religions, or pagans… but not Christians per the plan of Jesus.

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[ckempston]

A fair and honest opinion is always welcomed. Thanks for the breath of fresh air.

.

Well, maybe I should change that 100% to about 97.5%.

I do bump heads on a few things with Catholics in regard to interpretation, but sometimes I just like to debate and play devil’s advocate.

 

[SD_Catholic]

.

but sometimes I just like to debate and play devil’s advocate.

shocker…

SD

 

[SD_Catholic]

Jesus told us, that the Advocate(Holy Spirit) would come and reveal all things in truth and spirit:thumbsup: :

Who did Jesus actually tell this too?

SD

 

[heiscominginthe]

The first thing I will say is just as there is only one God, there is only one true bible.

Now, with one bible, you may have five to ten different interpretations of that bible, resulting in different religions based upon their interpretation of the bible.

Now, suppose men make other translations. And with each translation, you have five to ten different interpretations resulting in different religions based upon their interpretation of the bible.

Mankind is not correct in saying all are wrong. Yet, it could be said most are.

Now, who benefits by flooding the world with several diverse religions? It does not benefit God. It benefits the devil.

Because he is creating confusion. How? By everyone thinking their way is right causing dissention amongst believers or by men staying away from religion not knowing which is right. And so on and so forth.

So which is the right religion?

It will closely resemble the early church started by Jesus Christ through his apostles and will bare the sign of a believer as spoken of in Mark 16.

Which bible is the right tranlation? It is the one that has stood the test of time and cuts all other translations assunder.

How can one know which bible this is?

It is written that Jesus Christ, God’s Son, is the Word of God.

Jesus said his flock will know his voice. Since Jesus is the Word of God, his voice can be heard within the confines of God’s Holy Bible. Find the bible that was known only as the Holy Bible for nearly 200 years and you will find God’s infallible Word.

 

[MrS]

The . Find the bible that was known only as the Holy Bible for nearly 200 years and you will find God’s infallible Word.

200??

and not 2000:blush:

How about 1600++ :yup:

 

[SD_Catholic]

200??

and not 2000:blush:

How about 1600++ :yup:

I certainly would hope that’s what they meant

SD

 

[ckempston]

I certainly would hope that’s what they meant

SD

I doubt it, based on the description in the religion box. Coincidentally, the International Bible Society has been around for 200 years. I wonder if that’s what this person is referring to?

 

[Patrick_Cox]

The first thing I will say is just as there is only one God, there is only one true bible.

Now, with one bible, you may have five to ten different interpretations of that bible, resulting in different religions based upon their interpretation of the bible.

Now, suppose men make other translations. And with each translation, you have five to ten different interpretations resulting in different religions based upon their interpretation of the bible.

Mankind is not correct in saying all are wrong. Yet, it could be said most are.

There is only one truth! Not different versions of truth

Now, who benefits by flooding the world with several diverse religions? It does not benefit God. It benefits the devil.

Because he is creating confusion. How? By everyone thinking their way is right causing dissention amongst believers or by men staying away from religion not knowing which is right. And so on and so forth.

**Exactly!/**B]

So which is the right religion?

It will closely resemble the early church started by Jesus Christ through his apostles and will bare the sign of a believer as spoken of in Mark 16.

**No - if you say it only “resembles” the Church started by Jesus Christ through his apostles, then the implication is that it is NOT actually the Church started by Jesus Christ. In other words you are saying that the Church started by Jesus Christ is NOT the truth??! No, I would say the “right religion” IS the Church started by Jesus, because does anybody really believe that Jesus would create something that is doomed to fail? I think not… “The gates of the underworld shall not prevail against it”. **

Which bible is the right tranlation? It is the one that has stood the test of time and cuts all other translations assunder.

How can one know which bible this is?

It is written that Jesus Christ, God’s Son, is the Word of God.

Jesus said his flock will know his voice. Since Jesus is the Word of God, his voice can be heard within the confines of God’s Holy Bible. Find the bible that was known only as the Holy Bible for nearly 200 years and you will find God’s infallible Word.

Find the teaching of the Church started by Jesus himself and therein will you find God’s infallible teaching - teaching conveyed for 300 years before the Bible even existed and conveyed by Jesus’s Church via the magisterium, tradition and scriptures ever since

 

[JRKH]

I see by the post below that you have not yet taken the time to investigate the links and evidences given to you in other threads.

The first thing I will say is just as there is only one God, there is only one true bible.

Agreed.
That Bible, - Assembled, Copied, Translated, Defended, Interpreted, Taught from, and diseminated for 1500 years is the Catholic Bible canon of 72 books.

Now, with one bible, you may have five to ten different interpretations of that bible, resulting in different religions based upon their interpretation of the bible.

Not necessarily. There can be many differing understandings of some verse. This is why The Church has not “officially interpreted” most of the Bible. These variations are fine so long as they remain in the context of the historical and valid understandings of the Church as founded by Christ.
The Problem you site of different interpratations spawning different religions is strictly a protestant phenomenom of the last 500 years or so. It is the result of a failed concept called Sola Scriptura and the denial of Church authority that is clearly laid out in Matthew 18 and Acts 15.

Now, suppose men make other translations. And with each translation, you have five to ten different interpretations resulting in different religions based upon their interpretation of the bible.

Same problenm as above. Interpretation of Scripture without the Authority of the Church as arbiter results in chaos.

Mankind is not correct in saying all are wrong. Yet, it could be said most are.

A shrewd observation. We can be confident that at least one is correct - and that one, with historical roots is clearly the Most Correct.

Now, who benefits by flooding the world with several diverse religions? It does not benefit God. It benefits the devilAgreed.
Because he is creating confusion. How? By everyone thinking their way is right causing dissention amongst believers or by men staying away from religion not knowing which is right. And so on and so forth.

That is why I believe teh Devil LOVES Sola Scriptura

So which is the right religion?

The Church founded by Christ and given His authority. The one by which the Bible was Assembled and given to the faithful.

It will closely resemble the early church started by Jesus Christ through his apostles and will bare the sign of a believer as spoken of in Mark 16.

It will also display the authority given to it to bind and loose in Matthew 16, Matthew 18:15-18 and clearly demonstrated in Acts 15:1-29.

Which bible is the right tranlation? It is the one that has stood the test of time and cuts all other translations assunder.

Agreed the one that has stood the test of 2000 years. The Bible translation of the Holy Catholic Church which alone has the Authority of Christ on Earth.

How can one know which bible this is?

Easy - The right translation will have the NIHIL OBSTAT and IMPRIMATUR inside.

It is written that Jesus Christ, God’s Son, is the Word of God.

Praise God

Jesus said his flock will know his voice. Since Jesus is the Word of God, his voice can be heard within the confines of God’s Holy Bible. Find the bible that was known only as the Holy Bible for nearly 200 years and you will find God’s infallible Word.

200 years?? How about 1500 - Go with the one that has stood the test of 1500 years. The Bible that contains ALL of the books. Don’t be fooled by imitations that are missing sections and books. Get the original. THE HOLY BIBLE.

Peace
James

 

[heiscominginthe]

Find the teaching of the Church started by Jesus himself and therein will you find God’s infallible teaching - teaching conveyed for 300 years before the Bible even existed and conveyed by Jesus’s Church via the magisterium, tradition and scriptures ever since

It is written that Jesus Christ, God’s Son, is the Word of God.

Jesus said his flock will know his voice. Since Jesus is the Word of God, his voice can be heard within the confines of God’s Holy Bible. Find the bible that was known only as the Holy Bible for nearly 200 years and you will find God’s infallible Word.