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Howie01
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No, it doesn’t mean we will never sin again. As I’ve said, believers continue to sin, and, they have forgiveness of sins, all of them, in Christ (Acts 2:38).
Protestants: how do you know that your interpretation of the Bible is the right one?
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elvisman
Guest
Conclusion? What conclusion? You’re not giving enough information for me to come to a conclusion.
In your earlier posts, you were very confident and downright cocky about your guarantee of heaven.
Now, all I’m getting from you is that you can’t know if somebody’s saved - or you have no idea - yet in your earlier posts, you say that we have eternal security - which is NOT taught in the context of Scripture.
So, which is it?
DO you know or not? And, if so - HOW do you know?
You say that you’re only concerned with those in your particular tradtition. Are they the only pones who will be saved?
You’re all over the board on this one . . .
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Jerry_Marino
Guest
true no one can know if someone is saved or not, but i know that i am
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Howie01
Guest
Elvisman, that Protestants believe that HS teaches different things to different people is your conclusion.
Here’s what you said: How could you possibly know that - given your flawed belief that the Holy Spirit can teach any individual something different from everybody else and still be saved. That’s your consistent belief concerning protestants.
It’s not my position that HS teaches conflicting doctrines such that everyone is saved. You arrived at that conclusion because I said I don’t make the judgment of who’s saved, or not.
I still am; it’s called FAITH…
IYO, it’s not taught.
I’m answering your questions, and you’re reading into my answers. If you need clarification on something I’ve said, ask before jumping to conclusions.
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Howie01
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scooter58
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josie_L
Guest
So Howie if I should die tomorrow, how will I enter Heaven without being cleansed of all my sins first, that is, purified by or through flames as stated in 1 Corinthians 3:15. We none of us know when we will die.
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josie_L
Guest
1 Corinthians 10:12
"So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall."
Hebrews 6:9-12
"Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case- things that accompany salvation. God is not unjust; **he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. ** We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised."
Hebrews 10;26-31
“If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the Truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of a raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. . . **How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the **Spirit of Grace? . . . The Lord will judge his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
I have two questions for you guys (and you know who you are):
"So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall."
Hebrews 6:9-12
"Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case- things that accompany salvation. God is not unjust; **he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. ** We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised."
Hebrews 10;26-31
“If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the Truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of a raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. . . **How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the **Spirit of Grace? . . . The Lord will judge his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
I have two questions for you guys (and you know who you are):
- How are you living your life that you are so sure of salvation?
- And even if you are sure, don’t you still have to be careful?
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MrS
Guest
Perfect and eligible for immediate entrance to heaven = believers continue to sin.
HHhhmmmmm something wrong with this picture.
Must be that man-started faith community called Calvinism, which now most would rather call the Reformed position. Same guy, same positions, same errors, same consequence.
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MrS
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christian1
Guest
On a topic more suitable to this forum, what do you suppose is going to happen when the pro-abortion president shows up at Notre Dame?
And how could something like this happen in the morally, and faithfully undivided mind of Catholocism?
I think the entire school will secretely plot to protest at the meeting and show the world how important life is to them. I hope so at least.
And how could something like this happen in the morally, and faithfully undivided mind of Catholocism?
I think the entire school will secretely plot to protest at the meeting and show the world how important life is to them. I hope so at least.
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christian1
Guest
Jerry: you said: but the Lord said don’t cast pearls…
I have done nothing but support biblical doctrine here. If you cannot be sure who is saved Jerry, how is it that you have come to judge me as a swine?
Is it because I question your doctrine or because you cannot answer the contradiction that your doctrine presents in scripture?
And if you will be judged as you judge, is it fair to say that you will be judged a swine as well?
Or maybe your exempt from all the law on these things since you consider yourself elect. If you are exempt from the law, then how is it that you have partaken of the promises?
For surely, as the old covenant had laws, so does the new. How is it that you have turned God into a gambler of souls that randomly picks who will be saved, showing that He has the power to save but will only save or elect just so many. Your doctrine does not know ‘why’ He only picks so many, but you nevertheless ‘somehow know’ that indeed He does.
Your doctrine admits that unless one is called by God, they are not equipped to hear Him and cannot hear Him and are not able to respond unless God elects them and empowers them to do so.
And yet the Bible says that He wishes that all would have eternal life and yet your doctrine claims He does not and will not (for unknown reasons) empower all to receive it. You hypocrite. How dare you make God into such a monster!
You set blockades to the Kingdom of God claiming that only those who are called can come and only those that come are called, and then you tell me God must give me the ears to hear in order to hear the call…therefore you are saying it is God who must save me but He has chosen to NOT SAVE ALL, though the scriptures clearly say it is HIS DESIRE TO. What are you saying Jerry? God cannot save ALL? Or God does not WANT TO save all? No, it is plain that He wants to save all, and your doctrine says that He doesn’t save all. It obviously isn’t because He doesn’t want to, but because He cannot. Why can’t He Jerry? Why can He choose to empower some to be saved and not all? Or perhaps this is a lie you made up with His Holy Word.
What are you doing on this forum? Are you come to gloat of your eternal security? Are you come to call to those who don’t have ears? For truly, all on here have heard the message of the gospel and our hearts according to you are hardened and we are considered swine if we do not uphold your doctrine.
All the scriptures I gave and can give you will turn a blind eye to. For you do not want to see the truth. You prefer to look only at scriptures that support your doctrine.
You are in danger of hellfire friend unless you look carefully into the scripture without the blinders of eternal security covering your eyes.
This is indeed a seducing doctrine as Paul predicted we would see. How wonderful to think that our eternal security is set no matter what we think or do, for your doctrine teaches that you cannot choose against Gods decision for you.
All the warnings in scripture, all the bewares lest, all the admonitions, and even Christ warning that you will be removed from your place UNLESS you repent…that is not for you but for those poor unfortunate souls whom God did not empower to hear…THOUGH HE IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS!
You fool. Why all the admonition and warning to those who believe, if they cannot fall away? Why Jerry? Why, if God will not allow them to be lost? What is the point to make us think that we can be lost if indeed we cannot?
sincerely,
the swine who has not been chosen to hear and see but will be damned for eternity for something he cannot help even if he wanted to. Tell god thanks alot for not empowering me though he could have but chose not to. And tell him to stop being a hypocrite acting like he’s allpowerful, acting like he wants everybody saved, but then not saving everybody. I say this to your stupidity. For this is not the God of scripture at all. This is the false god you have created.
I have done nothing but support biblical doctrine here. If you cannot be sure who is saved Jerry, how is it that you have come to judge me as a swine?
Is it because I question your doctrine or because you cannot answer the contradiction that your doctrine presents in scripture?
And if you will be judged as you judge, is it fair to say that you will be judged a swine as well?
Or maybe your exempt from all the law on these things since you consider yourself elect. If you are exempt from the law, then how is it that you have partaken of the promises?
For surely, as the old covenant had laws, so does the new. How is it that you have turned God into a gambler of souls that randomly picks who will be saved, showing that He has the power to save but will only save or elect just so many. Your doctrine does not know ‘why’ He only picks so many, but you nevertheless ‘somehow know’ that indeed He does.
Your doctrine admits that unless one is called by God, they are not equipped to hear Him and cannot hear Him and are not able to respond unless God elects them and empowers them to do so.
And yet the Bible says that He wishes that all would have eternal life and yet your doctrine claims He does not and will not (for unknown reasons) empower all to receive it. You hypocrite. How dare you make God into such a monster!
You set blockades to the Kingdom of God claiming that only those who are called can come and only those that come are called, and then you tell me God must give me the ears to hear in order to hear the call…therefore you are saying it is God who must save me but He has chosen to NOT SAVE ALL, though the scriptures clearly say it is HIS DESIRE TO. What are you saying Jerry? God cannot save ALL? Or God does not WANT TO save all? No, it is plain that He wants to save all, and your doctrine says that He doesn’t save all. It obviously isn’t because He doesn’t want to, but because He cannot. Why can’t He Jerry? Why can He choose to empower some to be saved and not all? Or perhaps this is a lie you made up with His Holy Word.
What are you doing on this forum? Are you come to gloat of your eternal security? Are you come to call to those who don’t have ears? For truly, all on here have heard the message of the gospel and our hearts according to you are hardened and we are considered swine if we do not uphold your doctrine.
All the scriptures I gave and can give you will turn a blind eye to. For you do not want to see the truth. You prefer to look only at scriptures that support your doctrine.
You are in danger of hellfire friend unless you look carefully into the scripture without the blinders of eternal security covering your eyes.
This is indeed a seducing doctrine as Paul predicted we would see. How wonderful to think that our eternal security is set no matter what we think or do, for your doctrine teaches that you cannot choose against Gods decision for you.
All the warnings in scripture, all the bewares lest, all the admonitions, and even Christ warning that you will be removed from your place UNLESS you repent…that is not for you but for those poor unfortunate souls whom God did not empower to hear…THOUGH HE IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS!
You fool. Why all the admonition and warning to those who believe, if they cannot fall away? Why Jerry? Why, if God will not allow them to be lost? What is the point to make us think that we can be lost if indeed we cannot?
sincerely,
the swine who has not been chosen to hear and see but will be damned for eternity for something he cannot help even if he wanted to. Tell god thanks alot for not empowering me though he could have but chose not to. And tell him to stop being a hypocrite acting like he’s allpowerful, acting like he wants everybody saved, but then not saving everybody. I say this to your stupidity. For this is not the God of scripture at all. This is the false god you have created.
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Howie01
Guest
You’ve obviously never read 1 Cor 3:15, Josie, because if you had, you would have read that it’s about the worth of one’s works, and not about one’s purification.
You would have noticed it states if any man’s works are burned up, IOW, the man never did a single work that was worth anything, but, the verse continues, he himself will be saved.
An imperfect man, with worthless works, saved and in heaven. That verse goes against everything your church has taught you, IMO, eh?
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Howie01
Guest
josie L:
josie L:
By living the theological indicative/imperative that apostles expound in their writings.
josie L:
Sure, even though my justification cannot be lost, I don’t want my sanctification to be impeded or halted, like Israel, Moses and David.
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elvisman
Guest
Rev. 21:27 states that there IS a need for a purging of sine BEFORE entering heaven. It states that nothing unclean can enter heaven. That would include Luther’s “snow-covered dunghills”.
God will not be fooled by the false doctrine that filthy rags or dunghills can enter heaven because they are disguised. Only that which is PURE can enter heaven.
This is why the great Protestant author, C. S. Lewis said that God’s mercy demands Purgatory.
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josie_L
Guest
No Howie, you obviously haven’t read the entire passage, otherwise you would have noticed the parallel between “he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.”You’ve obviously never read 1 Cor 3:15, Josie, because if you had, you would have read that it’s about the worth of one’s works, and not about one’s purification.
You would have noticed it states if any man’s works are burned up, IOW, the man never did a single work that was worth anything, but, the verse continues, he himself will be saved.
An imperfect man, with worthless works, saved and in heaven. That verse goes against everything your church has taught you, IMO, eh?
and
1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of Heaven.
You still haven’t answered my question, if no unclean thing, i.e., sin, can enter Heaven, what is a believer to do if he/she dies with the vestiges of sin still upon them? Do they not have to be purified of all sin?
And does Sheol still exist?
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josie_L
Guest
He is deliberatley fooling himself, and truthfully I don’t know why; purgatory is an act of mercy on the part of God (probably the easiest doctrine to accept) for most of us do not die in a perfect state of grace but at the same time are undeserving of Hell.
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MrS
Guest
Now I see the difficulties you face. You read the opposite of what the words say. hhmmmSo you’re sinless, MrS?
Way to go.
Because we are all sinful and remain sinful even after claiming to be totally saved… the reformed position, and jerry’s postition are totally un-realistic, unbiblical… untrue.
But that is what one gets with the OSAS fallacy.
And no one has any assurance of going immediately to heaven at death. NOTHING unclean will enter Heaven. jerry presumes that his salvation is assured already…and yet he can keep on sinning (maybe just little ones, huh
).
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Howie01
Guest
**Revelation 21:27
and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.**Where is it stated in that passage that there is a need for purging of sin?
What the passages states is, those who have continually engaged in abomination and lying (Gr, present, active, participle), IOW, unrepentant unbelievers, shall never, no not ever, (ou mā, the strongest Greek negative—a double negative as I’ve written) come into the city—never, no not ever!
There’s nothing that can be done to change their status.
Only those whose names are written in the book, will enter into the city.
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