Protestants: how do you know that your interpretation of the Bible is the right one?

[Gabriel_of_12]

Catholics worship God alone. We do not mistake a creature - even God’s greatest creater - for the Creator. We HONOR Mary. Why? Because of the gifts that God has given her. By making her His mother, God honored Mary more than we ever could. Scripture calls Mary “blessed” and promiss that ALL generations will do likewise (Luke 1:42, 48). We honor Mary because Jesus honored her (perfectly obeying the 4th commandment) and we are called to imitate Christ.

ALL prayer has God as its object. When we “pray to Mary” as you say, we are really praying TO God THROUGH Mary. We are asking Mary to intercede and present our petitions to God. Recall how Solomon promised not to refuse any request of Bathsheba, the Queen Mother (1 Kings 2:19-20). Nor will the King of kings refuse the petition of His Queen Mother, just as he did not refuse her request at the wedding feast of Cana (John 2).

Mary’s intercession is completely subordinate to, and dependent upon Jesus’ intercession. In 1 Timothy 2:1-8, St. Paul COMMANDS Christians to intercede for one another. This doesn’t go around Christ’s mediation, but rather through it. Becuase Jesus is the one mediator between earth and heaven, we as members of Christ’s body are able to cooperate with Him as mediators. We single out Mary’s intercession because she is God’s most righteous saing and “the prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects” (James 5:16). I know this brings up the non belief in intercessory prayer for you, but for that I am sorry. It was practiced by the Apostles, they spoke about it. It is is the catacombs from the first century. The ECF’s wrote about it. Your church somehow didn’t take that teaching that came through the Reformation, so you have never been exposed to it.

When the Catholic Church defines a doctrine, she is merely codifying a belief that HAS ALWAYS existed in the Church. She did this in 325 when she defined the doctrine of the Trinity and in 382 when she determined the canon of the Bible. But, no Christian thinks that she 'invented" the Trinity or the Bible when she defined them. Likewise, the Immaculate Conception, Mary Ever-Virgin, and the Assumption belong the the Deposit of Faith. They are taught implicitly through OT typology and explicitly by the ECF’s.

Scripture does not record the Assumption of Mary, so we depend on APOSTOLIC TRADITION for our belief. However, the Assumption is NOT anti-scriptural. In fact, Scripture gives every indication that such a think could occur. Consider the unusual ends of certain righteous people: Enoch was taken to heaven without dying (Heb 11:5); and Elijah was whisked into heaven by a fiery chariot (2 King 2;11). Matthew 27:52 suggests a bodily assumption before the Second Coming and many Protestants believe in the “rapture” based on 1 Thess 4:17 and 1 Cor 15:52. Mary is simply the first to be “raptured.”

Gabriel of 12;

Wow. this post is worth bumping; Hey Always for Him, how do I sign up for your parish community? Nice post, good explanation:thumbsup: when I grow up, I hope to communicate just like you

 

[DavidCatechumen]

It’s too late to edit my post, so let me just add a few remarks to what I said earlier:

So the Catholic Church teaches that there is one visible Church, which subsists in her, but which has sanctifying elements which can be found outside the visible boundaries of the Church; these elements are a call to unity.

However, personally, I do not think that the Pope gets to steamroll all the Protestants as a result of this teaching.

The Church recognizes that many Protestant churches administer valid baptisms and marriages. Some churches may even be able to administer the Eucharist and the other Sacraments by virtue of having acquired Orthodox or Old Catholic orders.

Asking everyone to become Catholic overnight is a non-starter. So that is why the Church participates in ecumenism–it is an attempt to achieve unity at least in teaching. It is certainly hard to justify the variety of teaching in the Protestant churches against the scriptures I’ve cited, so I think that is a good start and something we can all (mostly) agree on.

 

[cath2lic4ever]

Are you serious or did you just hear about the Real Presence this morning for the first time?
**Would you have preferred that Jesus told the Apostles to take a bite **out of him instead? Jesus used the bread and wine at the Last Supper whereby it was transubstantiated to his Flesh and Blood.
Your reaction is just like those who left him in John 6:66.
They couldn’t handle it either.

The following is a clear-cut example of the faith that you lack, my friend (in blue):
John 6:52-66:
**The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, *“How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?” ***
**Jesus said to them, *"***Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
***Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. ***
***For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. ***
***Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. ***
***Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. ***
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever."
**These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. **
Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?"
**Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, *“Does this shock you? ***
***What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? ***
***It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. ***
But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.
And he said, "For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father."
As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.

another awesome response…elvisman. GOD bless & prayers to all!

 

[Syele]

No, this is a distinction WITH a difference.

The concept of an invisible church is an excuse to have 367,483+ different Protestant denominations who don’t agree about anything, who may or may not be teaching the truth, and have no power to feed the hungry or hold the government accountable for immoral laws due to their divisions. But that’s okay, goes the logic, because they’re part of the one “TRUE” church, which is invisible, and so Jesus is not bigamous for having hundreds of thousands of churches all claiming to be His Bride. (Cf. Eph. 5:23–32)…

Not only is this unworkable, it’s also not Biblical.

P.S. 367,483+ is a guess, but it feels about right. :nope:

This is completely not true nor worth my time to go over it again. Read the rest of my posts in this thread or dont talk to me anymore. Thanks.

 

[Syele]

It’s too late to edit my post, so let me just add a few remarks to what I said earlier:

However, personally, I do not think that the Pope gets to steamroll all the Protestants as a result of this teaching.

The Church recognizes that many Protestant churches administer valid baptisms and marriages. Some churches may even be able to administer the Eucharist and the other Sacraments by virtue of having acquired Orthodox or Old Catholic orders.

Asking everyone to become Catholic overnight is a non-starter. So that is why the Church participates in ecumenism–it is an attempt to achieve unity at least in teaching. It is certainly hard to justify the variety of teaching in the Protestant churches against the scriptures I’ve cited, so I think that is a good start and something we can all (mostly) agree on.

making up figures that feel true rather than are true is also a non-starter. IF I want a rational discussion with a Catholic about veneration of Mary, the proper way to start is not by announcing rudely that all Catholics worship her and do not know the difference between respect and worship. Likewise if you want to talk to Protestants about Unity you dont announce that each of us is our own denominations and that we dont care about the unity or authority in Gods Church.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

**Why did Jesus choose to be baptized? **

it wasn’t to wash away his sins cause as we all agree on he is without sin, but you all say that water baptism washes away sin which i disagree on, the blood of Christ has made atonement for our sins, that is the gospel my friends.

God bless you.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

The Protestant says that faith in Christ alone will save you. The Catholic** agrees****.**
The difference is the definition of faith. Faith is not just “easy-believeism”. It’s not just about what believe to be true because even the demons believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Holy One of God (Mark 1:24, James 2:19**).**

True faith demands obedience** **(Romans 1:5, 16:26.
When the Catechism speaks of the necessity of the sacraments – it’s because Jesus said so. Faith in Christ alone implies that we must do his will. This is the obedience of faith.
Matt 7:21-23
Matt. 12:50
Matt. 21:28-31
Luke 18:19-22
**Jesus told us that we must eat his flesh and drink his blood in order that we might have life within us. Without **it, we have no life – period (John 53-56). He commands us to do this (Matt. 26:26-29, Luke 22:17-20, Mark 14:22-25).

Salvation is a process – not a single, on-time event that happens while we’re still on earth.
He who endures to the end will be saved.
2 Timothy 2:12
Hebrews 10:26-27
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Chronicles 15:2
2 Peter 2:20-21
Matthew 10:22

obedience comes by ones faith, before i believed i was a rebel then i came to know Christ, i saw my sin as it was and at the Cross i found forgiveness. i know that you all don’t believe that it is a single time event that is why in the eucharist, you all re-present Christ as sacrifice to God. i know it been there heard the words from the priest read it in catechism, understand it very well, now just cause i understand the catechism and the sacraments as the catholic church teach don’t mean i believe in what the pope says it to be, his authority is not over God. so my friend i read the bible and i depend on God to show me the way, and it starts on your knees at the foot of the Cross.

God bless you.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

this thread is on how we know our interpretation of God’s Word is right?

of course like all threads, in all forums, they take on their own life cause we as mere humans in err of our own interpretations. i’ll be the first in line at the confessional booth (sorry), bad joke.

that is why i depend on God more than man to show me the Way with His Truth that leads to Life. that is how i will know if what the pastor is saying the truth or not. right now i am going to use one of the brother points of reference he used in defense of his faith and saying that in Christ alone is not sufficient; he called easy believism.

here’s the scripture:

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

so how can we be right with God, i wouldn’t want those words directed at me. there are many verses and i have quoted them here but for some reason you all don’t see what God says, not me. what we are talking about here is salvation, eternal life my friends.

And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us(1 John 3:23). And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him(Hebrews 11:6).

of course, the most famous verse know throughout the world John 3:16.

faith is the first step in salvation, so when the Gospel is preached souls will be saved.

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ (Romans 10:17). Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith (Galatians 3:2)? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith (Galatians 3:5)—

my friends, the bible is painted throughout that faith is the necessity for salvation. that faith is and should be in Christ alone.

God bless.

 

[rinnie]

this thread is on how we know our interpretation of God’s Word is right?

of course like all threads, in all forums, they take on their own life cause we as mere humans in err of our own interpretations. i’ll be the first in line at the confessional booth (sorry), bad joke.

that is why i depend on God more than man to show me the Way with His Truth that leads to Life. that is how i will know if what the pastor is saying the truth or not. right now i am going to use one of the brother points of reference he used in defense of his faith and saying that in Christ alone is not sufficient; he called easy believism.

here’s the scripture:

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

so how can we be right with God, i wouldn’t want those words directed at me. there are many verses and i have quoted them here but for some reason you all don’t see what God says, not me. what we are talking about here is salvation, eternal life my friends.

And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us(1 John 3:23). And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him(Hebrews 11:6).

of course, the most famous verse know throughout the world John 3:16.

faith is the first step in salvation, so when the Gospel is preached souls will be saved.

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ (Romans 10:17). Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith (Galatians 3:2)? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith (Galatians 3:5)—

my friends, the bible is painted throughout that faith is the necessity for salvation. that faith is and should be in Christ alone.

God bless.

While I agree with alot of what you said, then why in fact did Jesus leave the Church to Peter, and why did he tell the Apostles to go out and make disciples of all Nations. Why did Jesus not leave us all a bible then, And why was it written (from the Holy Spirit) not to interpret scripture and listen to the leaders of the Church. Where did you ever hear a leader of the Church say that they were God. Did God not leave the leaders the Gift of the Holy SPirit to lead us to God. Is it not through intercession that we are led to God through the Catholic Church. And if God only wanted us to read the bible why did he in fact leave us the Church?

 

[Graubo3]

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ (Romans 10:17). Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith (Galatians 3:2)?

God bless.

Jerry,

I agree with much of what you say. I would ask you to pay special attention to the scripture that you quote. One way we can learn things in life is by word of mouth and hearing. That is something that has happened from the beginning. I do not think that Eve was Adam’s scribe, and yes I know there are some that attribute that part of SS to Moses. How long was the Word of God in the oral before the hand of mankind scribed for Him? Or when did the Word of God cease to be oral as well? Can God have unlimited forms of communication? Where do we turn if there appears to be some perversion in what we hear? The ‘hearing’ from your quote also got me to thinking about Helen Keller. She knew of the existence of God and I believe she eventually became a Swedenborgianist. Just some thoughts. Have a good weekend.

Peace, Graubo

 

[Jerry_Marino]

do you really want me to answer some of those questions?

if you look at how all the apostles wrote in their letters it was all on scripture which at that time was what we know as the old testament, the torah. they did not waver for they stood on the foundation of Truth.

 

[elvisman]

obedience comes by ones faith, before i believed i was a rebel then i came to know Christ, i saw my sin as it was and at the Cross i found forgiveness. i know that you all don’t believe that it is a single time event that is why in the eucharist, you all re-present Christ as sacrifice to God. i know it been there heard the words from the priest read it in catechism, understand it very well, now just cause i understand the catechism and the sacraments as the catholic church teach don’t mean i believe in what the pope says it to be, his authority is not over God. so my friend i read the bible and i depend on God to show me the way, and it starts on your knees at the foot of the Cross.

God bless you.

If obedience comes by one’s faith - why do so many Protestants disobey the words of our Lord in John 6:25-71?

Please show me where the Church has ever taught that the Popes authority usurps God’s authority.

Please also show me where the Bible teaches the “Lone Ranger Christianity” that you claim to practice.

**I anxiously await your responses.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

If obedience comes by one’s faith - why do so many Protestants disobey the words of our Lord in John 6:25-71?

Please show me where the Church has ever taught that the Popes authority usurps God’s authority.

Please also show me where the Bible teaches the “Lone Ranger Christianity” that you claim to practice.

**I *anxiously ***await your responses.

oh we practice all that you say just not like you do

what do you mean the lone ranger mentality?

i belong to a church (hebrews 10:25)

as for the pope he ain’t holy.

 

[DavidCatechumen]

my friends, the bible is painted throughout that faith is the necessity for salvation. that faith is and should be in Christ alone.

Faith is not the only necessity for salvation. Jesus Christ says so.

“Except a man be baptized of water and of the Spirit, he shall by no means enter into the kingdom of heaven.” [John 3:5] “He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believes not shall be damned.” [Mark 16:16]

I already went through this document with you in another thread. This is what the majority of Christians believe. Not just Catholics, not just Catholics and Orthodox, but Catholics, Orthodox and mainline Protestants. Why? It’s the Gospel truth.

You believe something other than what the Bible says. You are imposing your homemade tradition in place of Scripture (something that the Catholic Church has never done). So that makes you the “Lone Ranger”–you are your own Pope.

Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith (Galatians 3:2)? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith (Galatians 3:5)

Jerry, do you know what “the law” is? The Mosaic Law, the Old Testament, the law of the Jews.

Go look up baptism in the Old Testament. Use your Bible’s concordance.

Scroll down after you have done that.

Guess what? Baptism is NOT part of the Old Testament law. It is a sacrament created by Jesus Christ. It is part of His plan of salvation. By rejecting baptism, you are turning your back on Jesus. Please, please, don’t do that.

 

[rinnie]

oh we practice all that you say just not like you do

what do you mean the lone ranger mentality?

i belong to a church (hebrews 10:25)

as for the pope he ain’t holy.

Answer me this, do you go by the Apostolic teachings? If so do you go by their creed?

 

[rinnie]

oh we practice all that you say just not like you do

what do you mean the lone ranger mentality?

i belong to a church (hebrews 10:25)

as for the pope he ain’t holy.

His teaching’s are. And his Church is! And I am sorry his is the Holy Father that we are to listen to in this world. He was left the Church!

 

[DavidCatechumen]

Answer me this, do you go by the Apostolic teachings? If so do you go by their creed?

Here is the Apostles’ Creed.

Recall what I’ve told you about 2 Thess. 2:15. Not all of the teachings of the Apostles were written down in the Bible. The rest passed on to us by Apostolic Tradition.

And NO, this Creed is not some goofy Catholic thing. A lot of Protestants use it too.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

david i know what it is, we just have a different view on it. you quote mark on belief and baptism that is what you believe so be it doesn’t make you right now does it?

you know as i read the whole paragraph of mark 16:16 it reminds of the cults that have risen out of these particular verses. anyway back to your post.

do you drive out demons.

since you’ve come to Christ do you speak in new tongues?

do you pick up snakes with your hands?

do you drink poison?

ok off topic:

real question here on the verse, why did not Jesus say, ‘whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned or if one believes and is not baptized will be condemned.’?

see my friend the first part of this text deals with the ‘good news’, the gospel and whoever believes this gospel and is baptized will be saved. so what is the Gospel?

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Now I make known to you brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures…"

the gospel does not include baptism, my friend, but once a person comes to the saving knowledge Jesus Christ, he sees his sins for what they are and turns to the Cross where our Savior took upon Himself the punishment for our sins that person repents and trusts in what Christ did for them on the Cross. now the act of faith comes to show the world I’M A BELIEVER IN JESUS CHRIST through baptism.

as for the old testament they had pools around the gates of jerusalem to go an cleanse themselves of whatever they had done.

good night my friends have a good day

God Bless you all

i love you in Christ Jesus.

 

[rinnie]

Here is the Apostles’ Creed.

Recall what I’ve told you about 2 Thess. 2:15. Not all of the teachings of the Apostles were written down in the Bible. The rest passed on to us by Apostolic Tradition.

And NO, this Creed is not some goofy Catholic thing. A lot of Protestants use it too.

Okay then how can they use it and not obey it. Does it not say I believe in ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH. Then how can you go by the Apostles Creed but deny their Church?

And as far as Apostolic Tradition that is what my Church is also made of. Where did I deny Apostolic Tradition for goodness sakes Im RC.

 

[elvisman]

oh we practice all that you say just not like you do

No you don’t because you reject his Real Presence in the Eucharist.

what do you mean the lone ranger mentality?

Your comments, like:
“so my friend i read the bible and i depend on God to show me the way”

i belong to a church (hebrews 10:25)

Which one?

as for the pope he ain’t holy.

Why?