Protestants: how do you know that your interpretation of the Bible is the right one?

[SteveGC]

pardon the interruption: the Bible, Jesus Christ and God.

Pardon MY interruption.

If memory serves, none of these are human any longer…and therefore cannot relate to us in a way that WE humans need for absorption of knowledge. Books need translation, proper interpretation. Who does that for us?

Don’t say the Holy Spirit, as incredibly necessary as He is for all of us…don’t go there.

To do so is insulting to Him, because it immediately professes that He is the author of confusion, chaos and disunity.

So…what else ya got for an answer?

 

[djrakowski]

pardon the interruption: the Bible, Jesus Christ and God.

Then please, if you don’t mind continuing the interruption, what are those essentials on which all such valid Christian congregations agree?

Does a valid Christian congregation baptize babies, or wait 'til they’ve accepted Jesus Christ as a mature Christian?
Does a valid Christian congregation believe in the Eucharistic Real Presence (as do Lutherans and Anglicans), or treat it as a symbolic meal of remembrance?
Does a valid Christian congregation teach that one can lose salvation, or does it teach that one’s salvation is eternally secure?
Does a valid Christian congregation teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, or does it teach that it’s a symbolic act of obedience to Christ?

So my original point still stands… who decides what’s essential?

 

[christian1]

To stevegc you said:

But let me see if I follow your logic…

You don’t believe the Bible is the only authority.

…because you believe anyone who “subjects” themselves to it, is authoritative.

I say that anyone who calls themself and ‘authority’ under God, is indeed subject to His Holy Word. Don’t you agree??

 

[SteveGC]

I say that anyone who calls themself and ‘authority’ under God, is indeed subject to His Holy Word. Don’t you agree??

Yes. But first, that’s not the argument being made. And secondly, we must remember that the Word of God is not the Bible alone. The Word of God is Christ in His fullness…it is EVERYTHING about Him, not limited to the written words only. Scripture itself points this out.

This is what you said: I believe that the Bible is NOT the only authority, BUT THAT those who are IN SPIRITUAL authority ARE SUBJECT TO IT

By saying this, it is extremely unclear WHO or WHAT is ALSO in authority, besides the Bible. Just saying that “those who ARE, must subject to Scripture” is not only erroneously limiting the Word of God to the Bible, but also not clarifying WHO exactly is “those who ARE”.

So, I’m trying to get you to clarify WHO else or WHAT else holds authentic authority to teach faith and morals to the faithful?

God Bless

 

[Jerry_Marino]

Pardon MY interruption.

If memory serves, none of these are human any longer…and therefore cannot relate to us in a way that WE humans need for absorption of knowledge. Books need translation, proper interpretation. Who does that for us?

Don’t say the Holy Spirit, as incredibly necessary as He is for all of us…don’t go there.

To do so is insulting to Him, because it immediately professes that He is the author of confusion, chaos and disunity.

So…what else ya got for an answer?

oh steve-o, you under mind the power of God, “none of these” are human any longer?
God made Himself human in Jesus and my friend He lives and HE promised us (believers) the HOLY SPIRIT.

John 15:26 "But when the Helper comes, whom **I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. **

after peter made that astounding profession of Jesus being the Christ, the Son of God; peter rebuked Christ found matthew 16 verse 22 and Jesus action was this:

Matthew 16:23 But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man."

God bless you all

 

[SteveGC]

Christian1, I’ve missed a few of your posts somehow, so I will address them now…

I study the bible, not a mans interpretation of it.

No sir. You may think you are doing this independent of man’s interpretation, but you’re not. You may limit yourself right NOW to just reading the Bible…but your original foundation of Christian understanding, and subsequently, your continuous exposure to continued Christian understanding, is ALL human based. It is people who lead you to read the Bible in the first place…they give you a set of foundational beliefs, and then you listen to other humans…they’ll give you another…and so on…and even if later in life (like right now) that you decided to stop listening to any more humans…and just read your Bible…it makes no difference…the human influence and interpretation is still what frames your mind when you open the book looking specifically for the truth about faith and morals. To deny this, is to not be honest with one’s actual life experiences.

doctrine taught must line up with the entire Bible truths taught.

Taught by WHOM?

The catholic church is full of hypocrites just like every other church. This I’m sure your aware of.

Yes. But it has no bearing on the authenticity of faith and moral teaching charism (gift of the Holy Spirit) how people receive the word of God, the truth, is an individual issue. It is explained in the parable of the sower, our hearts being the ground in which the seed of God is planted. I’m not suggesting we all come to know the Truth in exactly the same way…clearly that is not the case. But this has nothing to do with WHERE the Truth lies…WHERE one goes to find it. IF we come to it is a personal, individual issue, yes. But the actual TRUTH itself, is NOT an individual matter. IT has been revealed. It is NOT for you to determine, or interpret, or prayerfully discern. It is not an unknown mystery. It’s here on earth, Christ left it all for us…but not in a Book that was to be read by individuals (even prayerful) ones, on their own, outside of authentic HUMAN teaching.

That is why God is able to reach the unreachable in any religion. Because if they are sincere in their search, they will find.

Yes. Seek and ye shall find. Find what? The Truth, right? Right. But you won’t find it reading the Bible in a vacuum.

I have no care one way or another in religion titles. I would be more than happy to be a Catholic once more if it were not for these genuine concerns of doctrine that contradict scripture.

But they don’t. You’re just convinced that everything has to be clearly identified and spelled out in Scripture. Scripture doesn’t attest to it’s own perpiscuity, but you insist that it is clear, if you really pray about it hard enough. Furthermore, as I have said before, Sacred Scripture is just one of the elements of Christ’s deposit of faith given to Her. Deposit of Faith: Sacred Scripture AND Sacred Tradition, recognized and deliniated by the Magesterium (the apostolic teaching authority - handed down through ordination for all time)

God Bless

 

[Seeking12]

Dear Protestants,

Whence do you have authority to interpret the Bible as you do, since it is certainly a text which requires interpretation (Acts viii, 31), and it does not admit private interpretation (II Peter i, 20)? Do you believe that you are right as a “holy man of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit” (ibid., 21), and if so, why? How do you know that your interpretation is the right one, above that of the other several thousand denominations equally assured of the veracity of theirs, which they in contradiction to all the others?

**
Who has the truth? Who is the Person of the Trinity that leads all believers to the truth? Who is the resident truth Teacher? Why ask such a foolish question?**

 

[Seeking12]

To Steve Gc

**you said: ** The difference is, you use your Bible to somehow validate what humans tell you, and, latching onto whatever falsely interpreted teaching that feels good to you,

Do you believe me when I tell you that this is not what I do?

I study the bible, not a mans interpretation of it. I understand the problem with all these denominations. It is easy to look into them and see where they have created doctrine not being pure of heart as students of the bible.

I will leave a denomination if they are pushing ‘mans ideas’ that are ‘contrary’ to the Bible truth ‘in it’s entirety’. Meaning, doctrine taught must line up with the entire Bible truths taught.

You have some churches who place focus on money and position and neglect the remaining important truths, repentance, and humbleness.

Basically they all have portions of the truth, and convey and teach them disproportionally.

Usually it appeals in some way to a lust of the flesh.

Blessings of God= more money
Under grace= sin more
Once saved always saved=no worries
Who we are in Christ=me me me

All in all, if one is not truly devoted to being righteous, most every scripture can be used to sin by.

But those who have ears to hear and eyes to see, can see through these things.

The catholic church is full of hypocrites just like every other church. This I’m sure your aware of. But how people receive the word of God, the truth, is an individual issue. It is explained in the parable of the sower, our hearts being the ground in which the seed of God is planted.

That is why God is able to reach the unreachable in any religion. Because if they are sincere in their search, they will find.

I have no care one way or another in religion titles. I would be more than happy to be a Catholic once more if it were not for these genuine concerns of doctrine that contradict scripture.

I didn’t step out of the church because I found an ‘easier’ church. In my experience, the Catholic Church was by far the easiest religion to conform to compared to others.

I stepped out of the church because in my study of the Word of God it became clear that doctrines of the church were contradicting scripture.

I have quoted the scripture that plainly shows this contradiction concerning Mary’s evervirginity and nobody has any direct help in discussing it honestly. The most I get is ‘the church has decided’. Friend, it shouldn’t matter how many men agreed upon something, if there is strict contradiction to a doctrine created by men, then it should deserve our strictest attention.

I have been misinformed about alot of things concerning the Catholic religion and I am glad to clear some of these matters up.

And I would ask that you explain to me the doctrine on Saints, because I’m pretty sure, I have no doubt been mislead on this matter also. I would like to give fair opportunity for you to present to me the true teaching on the matter. Perhaps I have been falsly informed on this as well or at least half informed.

This is why the Bible warns by contrasting the “many” religious to the “few” saved…AMEN!

 

[SteveGC]

oh steve-o, you under mind the power of God, “none of these” are human any longer?
God made Himself human in Jesus and my friend He lives and HE promised us (believers) the HOLY SPIRIT.

John 15:26 "But when the Helper comes, whom **I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. **

after peter made that astounding profession of Jesus being the Christ, the Son of God; peter rebuked Christ found matthew 16 verse 22 and Jesus action was this:

Matthew 16:23 But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man."

God bless you all

No jerry-o. I don’t undermine at all. Jesus indeed WAS at once human and divine. And now, in our age, He is only divine. Humans are not prepared nor created to communicate divinely, atleast not when it comes to our minds, and our capacity to understand, store knowledge, etc. We need humans for teaching. Books need interpretation, humans do that for us. Not any humans. Divinely inspired (“breathed on”) humans. You think Jesus was speaking to YOU in Jn 15:26. No. Read the next verse. 15:27…and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning Who has been with Him from the beginning? The apostles, my friend. Need more proof that many times, Christ is not speaking specifically to you? OK…how about Jn 14:16-20…same subject…
16"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
18"I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
19"After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also.
20"In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
Look at the references to YOU, especially verses 19 and 20. This is clearly the apostles. Not YOU.

You cannot pick and choose who Christ is addressing. When you do that.You completely miss the concept of the Church (to which the HS first came, to whom is entrusted with authentic faitha nd morals teaching)

 

[Jerry_Marino]

Then please, if you don’t mind continuing the interruption, what are those essentials on which all such valid Christian congregations agree?

Does a valid Christian congregation baptize babies, or wait 'til they’ve accepted Jesus Christ as a mature Christian?
Does a valid Christian congregation believe in the Eucharistic Real Presence (as do Lutherans and Anglicans), or treat it as a symbolic meal of remembrance?
Does a valid Christian congregation teach that one can lose salvation, or does it teach that one’s salvation is eternally secure?
Does a valid Christian congregation teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, or does it teach that it’s a symbolic act of obedience to Christ?

So my original point still stands… who decides what’s essential?

i am just going to tap into one of the many questions you ask cause there seems to be a problem with the doctrine of ‘once saved always saved.’

i am only going to speak for myself, i did not do anything to earn salvation, it was a gift from God. therefore if God gave me this gift that comes by way of Jesus Christ. i rely on the Bible to teach me so i read it thoroughly as much as possible asking God for understanding.

now when i go to church i will be able to discern whether the preacher, reverend, priest, bishop etc. are telling the truth. cause without reading the Word of God; i would not tell apples from oranges and i’d be at the discretion of the one standing on the pulpit, a man.
and a man as we see in peter in my previous post is subject to err and yes i am in that category.

so let us look into scripture to tell us where we get OSAS.

*John 6:37 Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me, 38 because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me. 39 And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it (on) the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day."
*
v37 states that we did not find Jesus but the Father gave us to Him and we went towards Him plus when we go to Jesus He will not reject us.

v38 talks about who’s will is being done here; the Father’s (God).

v39 tells us of the will of the Father not lose anything that God gave Him.

v40 tells us again of God’s will, that all who see Jesus and believe in Him has eternal life.

John 16:43 Jesus answered and said to them, "Stop murmuring among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and I will raise him on the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets: ‘They shall all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to my Father and learns from him comes to me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

v44 we don’t go on own accord to Jesus my friends we are called: **Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen." **

v45 tells us of who teaches us and the result of what happens when one listens to the Father (God) and learns from Him, we go to Christ.

v46 no has seen the Father except Him cause He is from God and has seen the Father.

v47 whoever believes has eternal life.

believe what? who? Him, Jesus Christ that He came from heaven above.

my friends that is where i get the OSAS belief and i will state once more i did nothing to earn my salvation cause if i did then i would then probably lose it, but my friends the great news is that is not from what we do but rather what God has done and will do in one’s life if one listens.

The Cross

I was once lost when someone pointed me to the Cross,
I continued on my walk had no time to stop and talk,
I wasn’t someone’s pawn had to party until the dawn,
I took a hard fall and in the darkness - the Cross was all I saw,
A blood stained Cross did not know the cost,
My eyes were open seeing all of my sin,
There on my knees all I could say was please,
At the Cross was a sacrifice for my sin carried a price,
Who would take my place?
Who would give such grace?
What can wash away my sins?
By His precious blood we are cleanse,
What a friend we have in Jesus that He’d die to save us,
Now at the Cross I also die but I live to serve my King on high,
Who thought of me above all lifting me from the fall.

My friends in the Bible it says ‘today if you hear his voice do not harden your hearts’, we don’t know if tomorrow will come so today is the day of salvation.

Love in Christ
God bless you

 

[Jerry_Marino]

No jerry-o. I don’t undermine at all. Jesus indeed WAS at once human and divine. And now, in our age, He is only divine. Humans are not prepared nor created to communicate divinely, atleast not when it comes to our minds, and our capacity to understand, store knowledge, etc. We need humans for teaching. Books need interpretation, humans do that for us. Not any humans. Divinely inspired (“breathed on”) humans. You think Jesus was speaking to YOU in Jn 15:26. No. Read the next verse. 15:27…and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning Who has been with Him from the beginning? The apostles, my friend. Need more proof that many times, Christ is not speaking specifically to you? OK…how about Jn 14:16-20…same subject…
16"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
18"I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
19"After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also.
20"In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
Look at the references to YOU, especially verses 19 and 20. This is clearly the apostles. Not YOU.

You cannot pick and choose who Christ is addressing. When you do that.You completely miss the concept of the Church (to which the HS first came, to whom is entrusted with authentic faitha nd morals teaching)

Steve i wish you well

 

[christian1]

To Steve gc: You cannot pick and choose who Christ is addressing. When you do that.You completely miss the concept of the Church (to which the HS first came, to whom is entrusted with authentic faitha nd morals teaching)

Why are you being a hypocrite? You tell him he cannot choose who Christ is speaking now tell me in the verse below who Christ is speaking to. And please, by all means, use your Catholic interpretators.

Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

If you would actually read the INSPIRED word of God, you would not have needs for a man to teach you, but the Holy Spirit would reveal it to you AS THE BIBLE DECLARES HE WOULD.

 

[christian1]

To Jerry Marino: You said: My friends in the Bible it says ‘today if you hear his voice do not harden your hearts’, we don’t know if tomorrow will come so today is the day of salvation.

So is this scripture saying that WE COULD HARDEN OUR HEARTS TO HIS CALL???

 

[christian1]

To All:

Tell me please, by Catholic interpretation. Are those who are saved considered saints before they die?

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

 

[djrakowski]

Jerry, you’ve failed to address the issues I raised in my post, but in doing so, you’ve confirmed my impressions of sola scriptura. Basically, if you believe you’ve been saved, and believe that the Holy Spirit is guiding you infallibly, you’re able to determine anyone’s salvation by whether they agree with you on doctrine and interpretation of scripture.

And then your fellow non-Catholic Christian, christian1, disagrees with your interpretation in a thread where we’re discussing how to know which interpretation is true. The irony is stunning.

So christian1 and Jerry, which of you Spirit-guided Christians is correct in this case?

 

[SteveGC]

Why are you being a hypocrite? You tell him he cannot choose who Christ is speaking now tell me in the verse below who Christ is speaking to. And please, by all means, use your Catholic interpretators.

Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

If you would actually read the INSPIRED word of God, you would not have needs for a man to teach you, but the Holy Spirit would reveal it to you AS THE BIBLE DECLARES HE WOULD.

What’s hypocritical about what I’m doing? I’m not professing to have some set of beliefs or morals that I actually do not possess? That’s what a hypocrite is. Why would you call me that? You want to call me something, I suppose you could call me blunt, but please don’t call me a hypocrite. I am explaining the Truth as revealed by The Church. These are NOT my opinions.

John 17:20 …Jesus praying to the Father for the apostles for sanctification, and also for all of the believers who believe through THEIR (The apostles) word. This verse actually is an excellent one to show that Christ intended for the apostles to be the sole authority on earth to teach matters of Christian faith.

There ARE plenty of instances where Christ is speaking to all of us…but the ones in which he references the promulgation of His teachings, and being “sent” unto the nations to teach…and the Holy Spirit coming unto them to protect them unto all Truth…this is reserved for the Apostles…we cannot place ourselves in their shoes in these instances.

The Bible does NOT clearly or even ambiguously say anything about the Holy Spirit teaching me what revealed Truth actually IS. He teaches me about fortitude in the faith, and how to perservere in adversity, and how to overcome temptation, and how to apply revealed Truth in my life…but He does not REVEAL the actual TEACHINGS of Christ to me through my solitary reading of Scripture. You have to understand the SCOPE of what I’m saying…or you miss my point completely. Truth HAS BEEN REVEALED…IT’S NOT HIDDEN IN SCRIPTURE FOR YOU TO FIND ON YOUR OWN. THE APOSTLES GOT IT! THEY WERE SENT TO TEACH IT. THE BIBLE SUPPLEMENTS PERFECTLY THEIR TEACHING…THE HOLY SPIRIT IS ALSO OURS FOR UNDERSTANDING THEM, AND ALL THE ABOVE GIFTS I MENTIONED.

Sorry…not yelling. Just trying to drive home the nuances of my (The Church’s) position.

God Bless

 

[DavidCatechumen]

This is why the Bible warns by contrasting the “many” religious to the “few” saved…AMEN!

My friends in the Bible it says ‘today if you hear his voice do not harden your hearts’, we don’t know if tomorrow will come so today is the day of salvation.

christian1:

So is this scripture saying that WE COULD HARDEN OUR HEARTS TO HIS CALL???

This is proselytizing of Catholics. It is offensive, demeaning, and against the forum rules.

It is eminently clear that Seeking12, Jerry Marino, and christian1 are not reading or considering the replies to their posts, and are continuing to promote a single-minded agenda. That is also against the forum rules.

This kind of behavior is why I am quitting these forums. As for the three of you, you need to apologize and retract.

(CAF Staff: Please feel free to delete this post if you feel it is necessary)

 

[SteveGC]

Steve i wish you well

And I wish you all the best as well.

Does this mean we have nothing further to discuss? Perhaps I’m not clearly stating my position?

I would like to say, in your above post (reply) to djrakowsi…I’m afraid nothing you cited supports OSAS. You may have been trying to support the fact that you are granted authority through the Spirit to interpret the truths contained within the Bible…

Unfortunately, even that is not supported with your verses. Your verses discuss how one comes to God…and Catholics have no quarrel with this. Coming to God has nothing to do with discerning revealed Truth…which has already been done, and need not be done by anyone else. Our job is to seek and find the ordained teachers.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

This is proselytizing of Catholics. It is offensive, demeaning, and against the forum rules.

It is eminently clear that Seeking12, Jerry Marino, and christian1 are not reading or considering the replies to their posts, and are continuing to promote a single-minded agenda. That is also against the forum rules.

This kind of behavior is why I am quitting these forums. As for the three of you, you need to apologize and retract.

(CAF Staff: Please feel free to delete this post if you feel it is necessary)

apologize for quoting scripture, never

 

[DavidCatechumen]

apologize for quoting scripture, never

The problem is that the three of you together are implying that we, as Catholics, are not saved and therefore need to convert to your religion, or else we are going to hell.

That is extremely offensive.

I am not going to discuss this further, but I forgive you all for what you did. I cannot speak for the other Catholics whom you have offended, though.

Goodbye and God bless.