Protestants: how do you know that your interpretation of the Bible is the right one?

[Howie01]

josie L:

Howie, I am stating the obvious which is if the faith were heard (as opposed to read) then it was done so by word of mouth, the Bible was not yet complete or compiled.

You need to quit assuming that what you’re stating is obvious to everyone.

If it were that obvious, I wouldn’t have asked you the question, which you haven’t answered.

Are you saying that preaching from the Bible is excluded as a means of faith by hearing the word concerning Christ???

Yes, no, or otherwise.

 

[MrS]

You need to quit assuming that what you’re stating is obvious to everyone.

If it were that obvious, I wouldn’t have asked you the question, which you haven’t answered.

Are you saying that preaching from the Bible is excluded as a means of faith by hearing the word concerning Christ???

Yes, no, or otherwise.

Anyone can “preach from the Bible”

The thread topic is this: of all those “preachers”, how do we know who is right.

Those who claim the authorithy (not the expertise, not the high degree of intelligence) include the Catholic Church and all the faith communities that came after and continue to sprout up. Since they differ on some very major areas, we have got to agree that AT LEAST ALL BUT ONE are wrong.

That is NOT the work of the Holy Spirit… to have led people into WRONG teaching.

The Bible is the book of the Catholic Church… God’s inspired gift to all.

Faith communities which spring from the Bible have only their own authority to fall back on.

Jesus founded only one Church. Do you think it was yours?

This reminds me of the highway up in Saginaw… 5… FIVE… Baptist communities all within a couple blocks… and some even sharing the same parking lots… and each teaching the things their congregation HIRED them to teach. And each claiming guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Ya gotta agree… the only thing all these other groups have in common is that they are not Catholic and do not have access to the fullness of Faith.

.

 

[josie_L]

You need to quit assuming that what you’re stating is obvious to everyone.

If it were that obvious, I wouldn’t have asked you the question, which you haven’t answered.

Are you saying that preaching from the Bible is excluded as a means of faith by hearing the word concerning Christ???

Yes, no, or otherwise.

I should have explained that the Faith heard and received by the first Christians was done so by word of mouth (I did not mean to suggest that the written word is superfluous) because the NT was barely complete, and at the time Romans was written, which is the scripture you quoted, much of the NT still had to be written.

I have a question: How much of what the 1st century Christians’ faith was a result of the spoken word as opposed to scriptural if for the better part of the century the NT had not yet been fully composed?

 

[Jerry_Marino]

One of the key features of the Holy Spirit is to guide us into (one) Truth, but don’t you think that our human stubborness and/or pride (intellectual or otherwise) can lead us to believe things which are not coming from the Holy Spirit but something other than, don’t we have a passage in the Bible that states we must test the spirits before we accept things as true. Many people claim it is the Holy Spirit that has led them into this or that denomination or faith, but they cannot all be right.

Trust me, when I say that I do believe that the Holy Spirit will lead each person to the Truth, has long as it is the Holy Spirit which guides the individual and no other factor interferes.

Amen, and Amen to your question about stubbornness that is why i don’t rely on my own interpretation and if i truly don’t understand, i leave it alone. yes we are to test the spirits, i’ve posted them on here as well if not on this thread, the one on John 6.

we must rely on scripture in guiding us to Truth.

God bless

 

[Jerry_Marino]

Anyone can “preach from the Bible”

The thread topic is this: of all those “preachers”, how do we know who is right.

Those who claim the authorithy (not the expertise, not the high degree of intelligence) include the Catholic Church and all the faith communities that came after and continue to sprout up. Since they differ on some very major areas, we have got to agree that AT LEAST ALL BUT ONE are wrong.

That is NOT the work of the Holy Spirit… to have led people into WRONG teaching.

The Bible is the book of the Catholic Church… God’s inspired gift to all.

Faith communities which spring from the Bible have only their own authority to fall back on.

Jesus founded only one Church. Do you think it was yours?

This reminds me of the highway up in Saginaw… 5… FIVE… Baptist communities all within a couple blocks… and some even sharing the same parking lots… and each teaching the things their congregation HIRED them to teach. And each claiming guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Ya gotta agree… the only thing all these other groups have in common is that they are not Catholic and do not have access to the fullness of Faith.

.

yes anyone can preach from the bible that is why we (believers) must read the Bible so that we won’t easily be deceived.

 

[SteveGC]

According to God, it’s God (Jn 6:45), as His prophets prophesied it would be.

I don’t deny that God is the ‘original’ teacher, Howie. But He always used people to do it for Him, then He came in the person of Christ, and did it Himself, and then when He had to leave earth, He used people again. The Bible supplements that which is primarily taught through anointed humans. It’s not NEARLY as important to read Scripture as it is to align ourselves with the anointed humans.

You may have a problem being taught by God, but I don’t.

No problem being taught by God, through His Church. Perhaps you have a problem submitting to this truth, but I don’t.

The preaching of the word—the scriptures.

By WHOM? WHO is preaching, Howie??? By what authority do they come to you preaching? Just whoever happens to show up on the pulpit at your church? And then you decide to go to the church down the street the next week, and get taught by the next guy in the pulpit, teaching something different, yet using the same Book?? When do you open your eyes to discern by what authority they come to you? If you say you test them through Scripture, that’s BUNK. For you STILL have the problem with YOUR OWN interpretation. By what authority?

Yes it is. Faith from hearing, and hearing by the word concerning Christ, (Rom 10:17).

We’re not talking about faith, Howie. We’re talking about Truth, and how we are taught it, FULLY.

I’ve said both, Steve.

Yes, but now I’m not even sure you believe that yourself. So, how exactly did YOU get taught Christianity as you know it today?

Php 1:15-20

Shrug all you want. Phil 1:15-20 doesn’t talk about revelation of truth…it talks about motivation to preach.

 

[josie_L]

Amen, and Amen to your question about stubbornness that is why i don’t rely on my own interpretation and if i truly don’t understand, i leave it alone. yes we are to test the spirits, i’ve posted them on here as well if not on this thread, the one on John 6.

we must rely on scripture in guiding us to Truth.

God bless

But Jerry I also believe that the Holy Spirit guides the CC into all Truth, as per Jesus’s promise to the Apostles.

 

[MrS]

yes anyone can preach from the bible that is why we (believers) must read the Bible so that we won’t easily be deceived.

Then I encourage you to be cautious so as not to read it and interpret it to your own distruction.

Nothing will jump out of the pages to correct you when you make the wrong interpretation. If you are truly going to rely on another authority (…"… how will I know unless someone explains it to me…"), then you have to reject any authority that does not come from Christ AND from those whom He put in Charge! He did NOT put everyone in charge.

As the Bereans did… check Scripture to see if it CONTRADICTS what you want to believe. Most protestant interpretations do contradict other verses in Scripture. But that happens when they take so much out of context

.

 

[SteveGC]

i don’t rely on my own interpretation

Then whose do you rely on?

 

[josie_L]

Then whose do you rely on?

He’s going to say the Holy Spirit, even though he relies on the interpretation of his chosen denomination in order to understand the Bible.

 

[Howie01]

MrS:

Anyone can “preach from the Bible”

The thread topic is this: of all those “preachers”, how do we know who is right.

Those who claim the authorithy (not the expertise, not the high degree of intelligence) include the Catholic Church and all the faith communities that came after and continue to sprout up. Since they differ on some very major areas, we have got to agree that AT LEAST ALL BUT ONE are wrong.

OK.

MrS:

That is NOT the work of the Holy Spirit… to have led people into WRONG teaching.

True.

MrS:

The Bible is the book of the Catholic Church… God’s inspired gift to all.

Catholic with a small “c,” yes.

MrS:

Faith communities which spring from the Bible have only their own authority to fall back on.

Inherent in the Scriptures is the authority of their Divine Author.

MrS:

Jesus founded only one Church. Do you think it was yours?

As a single local church? No.

MrS:

This reminds me of the highway up in Saginaw… 5… FIVE… Baptist communities all within a couple blocks… and some even sharing the same parking lots… and each teaching the things their congregation HIRED them to teach. And each claiming guidance of the Holy Spirit.

MrS:

Ya gotta agree… the only thing all these other groups have in common is that they are not Catholic and do not have access to the fullness of Faith.

They’re certainly not Catholic. But I don’t know what they’re teaching—Baptist is a very large umbrella.

 

[Howie01]

josie L:

I should have explained that the Faith heard and received by the first Christians was done so by word of mouth (I did not mean to suggest that the written word is superfluous) because the NT was barely complete and at the time Romans was written, which is the scripture you quoted, much of the NT still had to be written.

Thanks for the clarification.
josie L:

I have a question: How much of what the 1st century Christians faith was a result of the oral word as opposed to scriptural if for the better part of the century the NT had not yet been fully composed?

**Acts 17:2

2 And according to Paul’s custom, he…for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

Acts 18:28

28 for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.**What did Christ reason from, with the two, on the road to Emmaus?

The O.T. has the ability to bring one to the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus (2 Tim 3:15).

 

[Graubo3]

well by you alls statement to my answer of interpretation, which should be yours as well cause Jesus said, "The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name–he will teach you everything and remind you of all that (I) told you (John 14:26).

well if you don’t believe this then i can’t say much cause this is a promise to all believers. now go ahead with your argument who is right? you be the judge.

God bless you all

Jerry,

Where in the Bible does it say that the scripture verse you quoted was a ‘promise to all believers’? It is my emphasis in Bold added to your quote. My understanding is that Jesus is speaking to His faithful eleven during the Last Supper. Have a nice weekend.

Peace, Graubo

 

[MrS]

They’re certainly not Catholic. But I don’t know what they’re teaching—Baptist is a very large umbrella.

Baptist is a separate umbrella(s)
Lutheran is a separate umbrella(s)
Calvinist is a separate umbrella(s)
Pentacostal is a separte umbrella(s)
Methodist is a separate umbrella(s)…

They are all under their own separate umbrellas…

and as pretty as they may be
as big as they may be
as easy to hold as they may be…

they are NOT under the umbrella which Jesus gave us.

And all their umbrellas won’t save them … because they all have leaks (errors) that could destroy their very souls.

.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

so according to your argument that Jesus is only speaking to his eleven then how do you all get the eucharist cause He only spoke to the eleven so you cup doesn’t hold much water.

1 corinthians 12:13

as for the Holy Spirit only for the elite eleven, in the book of Acts, the day of pentecost.

 

[Howie01]

SteveGC:

I don’t deny that God is the ‘original’ teacher, Howie. But He always used people to do it for Him, then He came in the person of Christ, and did it Himself, and then when He had to leave earth, He used people again. The Bible supplements that which is primarily taught through anointed humans. It’s not NEARLY as important to read Scripture as it is to align ourselves with the anointed humans.

There are many reasons I cannot fellowship with Catholics, one of those is your attitude that the Bible is a supplement to human teaching.

SteveGC:

No problem being taught by God, through His Church. Perhaps you have a problem submitting to this truth, but I don’t.

I do submit to his truth, Steve, and it’s found in His written word. That’s where the powers lies (Eph 5:26; 6:17; Heb 4:12). The power isn’t in the preacher.

SteveGC:

By WHOM? WHO is preaching, Howie??? By what authority do they come to you preaching? Just whoever happens to show up on the pulpit at your church? And then you decide to go to the church down the street the next week, and get taught by the next guy in the pulpit, teaching something different, yet using the same Book?? When do you open your eyes to discern by what authority they come to you? If you say you test them through Scripture, that’s BUNK. For you STILL have the problem with YOUR OWN interpretation. By what authority?

By what authority have you come to know that you’re under the right authority.

SteveGC:

We’re not talking about faith, Howie. We’re talking about Truth, and how we are taught it, FULLY.

I’m talking about what the passage I quoted talks about—faith.

It’s you who’s wanting to steer away from that.

SteveGC:

Yes, but now I’m not even sure you believe that yourself.

I’m sure that I’m not concerned with what you’re not sure about regarding what I believe, Steve.

SteveGC:

So, how exactly did YOU get taught Christianity as you know it today?

Been though this with you, Steve; remember?

SteveGC:

Shrug all you want. Phil 1:15-20 doesn’t talk about revelation of truth…it talks about motivation to preach.

Even badly motivated preaching, poorly presented, can be used by the Spirit to bring one to Christ.

 

[Howie01]

MrS:

Baptist is a separate umbrella(s)
Lutheran is a separate umbrella(s)
Calvinist is a separate umbrella(s)
Pentacostal is a separte umbrella(s)
Methodist is a separate umbrella(s)…

They are all under their own separate umbrellas…

and as pretty as they may be
as big as they may be
as easy to hold as they may be…

they are NOT under the umbrella which Jesus gave us.

And all their umbrellas won’t save them … because they all have leaks (errors) that could destroy their very souls.

I’ve yet to meet a Catholic who’s ever preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ to me, and I talk to a lot of Catholics.

Instead, they always preach that in order for me to be saved, I must join their church.

 

[MrS]

There are many reasons I cannot fellowship with Catholics, one of those is your attitude that the Bible is a supplement to human teaching.

.

Even badly motivated preaching, poorly presented, can be used by the Spirit to bring one to Christ.

The Bible is no more a “supplement” to the Magisterium for the Church, than the Holy Spirit is a supplement to the Father and the Son.

They all work in unison, and they all support each other.

All the Truth was given to the Apostles, not to everyone. They became the conduit or the teaching Authority in the One Church to whose who by grace came fully to the Lord in that One Church.

Over time, erroneous letters crept in to join the authentic letters coming from the early Church leaders… not the followers.

In time … Much, not all, of the original ORAL teaching was written down, and MUCH, not all of those written letters were determined by the Catholic Church (under the guidance of that same Holy Spirit) to be the canon of Scripture.

Why would the Holy Spirit inspire Catholic writers, inspire Catholics to canonize, and then not inspire the Catholic Magisterium to reach and interpret to the world.

Fact is that He did just that. Then along came men and women who rejected authority, chose to be outside the Catholic Church… and now verse-pick and mis interpret to “justify” their erroneous teaching.

Sad.

.

 

[MrS]

I’ve yet to meet a Catholic who’s ever preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ to me, and I talk to a lot of Catholics.

Instead, they always preach that in order for me to be saved, I must join their church.

Their error is that they should tell you that you have to join Jesus’ Church. It is not ours.

But then we would have to discuss and agree on the verbage so that we both understand the same meanings of saved, justified, made holy, righteious, merit, faith and works etc etc etc.

Why has it all become so confusing… because “… what a tangled web we weave when first we start to deceive…”

The heretics within, and the heretics without the Catholic Church are simply deceivers.

Sadly, not all of them realize it.

.

 

[SteveGC]

There are many reasons I cannot fellowship with Catholics, one of those is your attitude that the Bible is a supplement to human teaching.

Let’s rephrase then. The Bible is Sacred, and held to the highest level of importance, ALONG WITH Sacred Tradition, which is founded upon the oral teachings of Christ, as administered unto all the earth by the HUMAN teachers He appointed. As such, Tradition is fully supported by Scripture, and Scripture fully supplements the Tradition of the Church. I’m sure I’m still not worthy of your “fellowship” though. Why are you even on a Catholic website, friend? Why not go fellowship on the Bible-only forums? We want fellowship with you, but I don’t get how you want to even spend time with us.

I do submit to his truth, Steve, and it’s found in His written word. That’s where the powers lies (Eph 5:26; 6:17; Heb 4:12). The power isn’t in the preacher.

You don’t submit to the truth I just proclaimed, which is that The Church is guardian of The Truth. It’s found in His written word, AND the teaching Traditions of His apostles and their ordained successors. Power lies in Christ. But Christ is not confined to a Book. His teachings were not just written. This is why He had apostles, and not dictation secretaries. He never commissioned a book to be compiled and canonized for the masses, but rather, humans to go out and teach - teach that which was ORALLY taught to them. You think about that the next time you pick up your Bible. It’s in your hands because the ordained humans wanted you to have it.

By what authority have you come to know that you’re under the right authority.

Look, both of our authorities lies in Christ Jesus. But your preachers do not claim, nor can show, their unbroken line of succession to the Apostles themselves, who received Christ’s authority. They cannot show this historically. So how is it you can trust their authenticity? How can you comfortably be swayed by what they teach you, if they come not from apostolic origin?

I’m talking about what the passage I quoted talks about—faith. It’s you who’s wanting to steer away from that.

Respectfully, No sir. Retrace the origin of this discussion. I asked about teaching authority…you responded with the passage about faith, not teaching. Seems you might be steering. Or innocently misunderstanding the points of this discussion?

I’m sure that I’m not concerned with what you’re not sure about regarding what I believe, Steve.

That’s productive. What’s THAT got to do with anything? I was well aware from the first moment you responded to a post of mine weeks ago that you couldn’t care less about my thoughts. For it was clear you weren’t here to partake of the purposes of this website (learning the Catholic faith)…but rather, your intent is clearly to refute Catholicism and perhaps proselytize Catholics out from The Church.

Been though this with you, Steve; remember?

Yes. I’m trying to forget, actually. For you have yet to be clear about how you were taught what you now believe. Perhaps I’ll drop it, since you can’t seem to come to reveal anything which cuts to the heart of your theology.

Even badly motivated preaching, poorly presented, can be used by the Spirit to bring one to Christ.

poorly presented, perhaps. but not falsely presented.

God Bless