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The_GreyPilgrim
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Please provide in a simple description or formula how you understand the Trinity?
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O.S.Luke
Guest
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Three yet one.
Is there any other way to understand it?
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Is there any other way to understand it?
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Robbinson
Guest
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Three yet one.
Is there any other way to understand it?
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. God is “one” (“echad” - in Hebrew) entity, but in the form of a compound unity - three persons making 1 - each God, and together God who have existed together as a unity since the beginning of time.Jesus, the “Son” is God - a single person with two natures (divine and human).
Blessings,
Brian
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The_GreyPilgrim
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Is the Father the Son? Is the Son the Father? Is the Holy Spirit either the Father or the Son or both?Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Three yet one.
Is there any other way to understand it?
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Will_B
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Having been raised in a protestant denomination (Methodist) and grew into the Catholic faith (while not Roman Catholic) there are truths that unite all Christians.
The Doctrine of the Trinity as proclaimed in the Nicene Creed is the same among all Christians… Those who do not hold the Trinity as proclaimed in the Nicene Creed are not true Chistians…
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.
Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, in fulfillment of the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.
I have stopped the creed at this point, because from here on the creed defines the Church, which not all protestants are required to believe.
Oh, on a last note: The trinity is a mystery, which only God fully understands. Since were are not God, we will never fully understand the Trinity on this side of heaven.
The Doctrine of the Trinity as proclaimed in the Nicene Creed is the same among all Christians… Those who do not hold the Trinity as proclaimed in the Nicene Creed are not true Chistians…
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.
Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, in fulfillment of the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.
I have stopped the creed at this point, because from here on the creed defines the Church, which not all protestants are required to believe.
Oh, on a last note: The trinity is a mystery, which only God fully understands. Since were are not God, we will never fully understand the Trinity on this side of heaven.
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O.S.Luke
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The Athanasian Creed is accepted by Lutherans and Catholics (as well as others). I think our understanding of the Trinity is essentially the same.
Jon
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CHRISTINE77
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Read John14.8Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9Jesus answered: "Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever—17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
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SSTeacher
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As I understand it, the doctrine of the Trinity took several centuries and perhaps even more controversies to establish as truth. If the “Early Christians” had been subject to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, I really don’t see how God could have made the doctrine of the Trinity known to us because the notion that the doctrine of the Trinity could have been lifted from the pages of Scripture as a result of ordinary Christians perusing their Bibles (assuming printed Bibles containing an agreed and authorized canon had been available to them) is totally unrealistic. The doctrine of Sola Scriptura leads its advocates to disagree on even simple issues. Within these parameters, what chance would there have been of agreement about a doctrine that is above human understanding? It seems fairly conclusive, then, that any understanding of the Trinity comes as a result of what has been handed down either orally or in writing but certainly outside of the Bible, which did not come into existence until after the Nicene Creed had been formulated.
My understanding is that God is Trinity of Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (who was referred to in earlier times as the Holy Ghost). They are separate Persons and they act in perfect harmony. God is three Persons. Each Person is God (divine). Yet there is only one God. One plus One plus One equals One.
There is no shortage of analogies e.g. three burning matches held together, a three–stranded rope, a shamrock, the sun made up of heat, light and motion, an egg made up of shell, white and yoke, and so on. All of them are extremely irritating. The doctrine is just above human understanding and we might as well just say so and leave it at that.
There is a big difference in understanding between Eastern and Western Christendom. We Protestants naturally take our line from the Catholic Church (we’re apparently content to ignore the implications of John 15:26) so we include the filioque when we say the Nicene Creed. I’m currently feeling myself drawn toward Holy Orthodoxy so as I gradually acquaint myself with the Eastern perspective my understanding may change.
Studiously,
Mick
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Bill_Pick
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Well I,m a brother and I,m a husband and I,m a father but I,m still just Bill one personFather, Son, and Holy Spirit. Three yet one.
Is there any other way to understand it?
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O.S.Luke
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You are not God; being Three yet One is a mystery of faith.
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Bill_Pick
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Where did I say I was God,you may not believe this but I did not need you to tell I was not god
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brkn1
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I have not found Sola Scriptura to lead to an incorrect understanding of the Trinity.The doctrine of Sola Scriptura leads its advocates to disagree on even simple issues. Within these parameters, what chance would there have been of agreement about a doctrine that is above human understanding? It seems fairly conclusive, then, that any understanding of the Trinity comes as a result of what has been handed down either orally or in writing but certainly outside of the Bible, which did not come into existence until after the Nicene Creed had been formulated.
My understanding is that God is Trinity of Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (who was referred to in earlier times as the Holy Ghost). They are separate Persons and they act in perfect harmony. God is three Persons. Each Person is God (divine). Yet there is only one God. One plus One plus One equals One.
Studiously,
Mick
The RCC has it correct from what I have read in their posts and so have most of the other Protestants etc.
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Bill_Pick
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I,m a little confused are we talking about SS or the Trinity…In my opinion you can not be a Christian and not believe in the Trinity ,What is your thinking on the Trinity and SS
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Thorwald
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How do we explain Isaiah 44:6? There is no mention of the Holy Ghost. Also, in Revelation, Jesus is known as, “The beginning of the creation of God.” What about Revelation 1:6? Who is sitting on the throne in Rev chpt 4? We know that the Lord of Hosts is in chpt 5, as Christ (The Lamb). We also know, that the figure in Rev chpt 4 and the one in chpt 5, are eventually sitting on the throne, after judgment has taken place. Another problem, is found in The Lord’s Prayer. It is our Father in heaven’s kingdom that is coming. There is no mention of The Holy Ghost in Revelation, that I can remember.
Thorwald Johansen
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brkn1
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Isaiah 44:6 is God speaking as the One God. There is no other God. This does not take away from the existence of Three Persons making up that One God.
There are several references to the Holy Spirit in Isaiah.
A good one would be Isaiah 48:16 “…: and now the Lord God, and His Spirit, hath sent Me” (the Lord Jesus). You can see the Trinity in this verse.
Check out Revelation 22:17 “And the Spirit and the bride say,…”There is no mention of The Holy Ghost in Revelation, that I can remember.
Thorwald Johansen
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SSTeacher
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The point I was attempting to make was that the doctrine of Sola Scriptura could not possibly have been used to arrive at any understanding of the Trinity. It seemed right to declare that since the Original Poster’s question is addressed to Protestants wanting to know how we Protestants understand the doctrine of Trinity – in other words, to state not only what we believe about the Trinity but also to show how we arrive at our conclusions.
I introduced the filioque because I see it as central to the discussion. The two different understandings of the Trinity separate the East from the West. Indeed, this issue was a contributing factor to the parting of the ways in 1054. The Orthodox Church rejects the filioque. If the Orthodox Church is correct in its teaching on this matter then the Catholic Church has to be incorrect. They both can’t be right. And since Protestants simply adopted the Catholic perspective about the Trinity, it would mean that the error has permeated Protestantism as well. Do you follow my reasoning?
What’s your perspective on the filioque, by the way?
Curiously.
Mick
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CHRISTINE77
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I disagree. The Gospel of John is filled with illustrations of the Trinity of God. Why couldn’t a person come to an understanding of the Trinity by using scripture only?
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SSTeacher
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That’s a fair question. I agree with you that the Gospel of John is filled with illustrations of the Trinity of God. I respectfully submit that we are able to agree on this because we both already believe in the doctrine of the Trinity. In other words, what we read in the Gospel of John confirms to us what we already know to be true. But we did not arrive at the knowledge of this truth by consulting the Scriptures, did we? That’s the imaginary scenario that I’m attempting to refute.
If you’ll be kind enough to bear with me, let me suggest this to you. Try to imagine that you have no knowledge of the doctrine of the Trinity. I’ll do the same. We both sit down and read the Gospel of John. Do you think there is any likelihood that either of us would arise from our reading with even the slightest inkling of this amazing mystery about the nature of God?
I guess many others who read this thread will agree with us that the Gospel of John is filled with illustrations of the Trinity of God. But we might all do well to remember that Illustrations are used only as aids to understanding.
Grace and peace,
Mick
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brkn1
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The “One plus One plus One equals One.” is a confusing mathematical presentation of the Trinity.My understanding is that God is Trinity of Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (who was referred to in earlier times as the Holy Ghost). They are separate Persons and they act in perfect harmony. God is three Persons. Each Person is God (divine). Yet there is only one God. One plus One plus One equals One.
Studiously,
Mick
The final ONE is speaking of the one and only God, which would be incomplete if any of the three One Persons of that ONE Godhead was missing.
I still agree with what you are describing as the Trinity.
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