Protestants how to you get by without confession

  • Thread starter Thread starter Adamski
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
dronald said:
I think this is a good method and would be expected by God as well if possible. Asking forgiveness and repenting with a sincere heart is extremely important.

But the idea that a sincere heart would be rejected is confusing to me. One should know in one’s heart if they are truly sorry for said sin and are looking to refrain from said sin again. Repentance doesn’t just mean apologizing, but changing one’s ways. I can’t see God rejecting that.
Click to expand...
Even the Catholic Church teaches that one can be forgiven if they have perfect contrition for their sins. That means that we should probably be weeping if we have any idea how offensive our sins are to God. But here’s the problem. Even we who go through a thoughtful and honest examination of our conscience prior to confessing sometimes have a problem feeling great sorrow for our sins. Having perfect contrition is extraordinary and not the norm.

Christ knew what he was doing in giving us a real person to help us in our repentance, and, in persona Christi that we might hear the words of absolution. He understands that perfect repentance is not an easy thing to accomplish. So he came to help, through his priests.
 
SteveVH said:
Even the Catholic Church teaches that one can be forgiven if they have perfect contrition for their sins. That means that we should probably be weeping if we have any idea how offensive our sins are to God. But here’s the problem. Even we who go through a thoughtful and honest examination of our conscience prior to confessing sometimes have a problem feeling great sorrow for our sins. Having perfect contrition is extraordinary and not the norm.

Christ knew what he was doing in giving us a real person to help us in our repentance, and, in persona Christi that we might hear the words of absolution. He understands that perfect repentance is not an easy thing to accomplish. So he came to help, through his priests.
Click to expand...
Might not hearing the words of a priest that they are absolved from their sins instill in some penitents the feeling that they need not be perfectly contrite and change their behavior, since if and when they err again, they have the option of going to confession and being absolved again?
 
dronald said:
You mean I can repent and ask forgiveness from God and He’ll give a stern, “Nope.”?
Click to expand...
You can do anything you want. But if you are in a state of mortal sin you must go to a Priest to be forgiven.

John 5 16:17 says you can pray about venial sin (sin that does not lead to death) can be prayed about to God for forgiveness. But mortal sin you should not pray.

Let me show you. If anyone sees his brother sinning, if his sin is not DEADLY we call venial sin, he should pray to God and he will give him life.

This is ONLY for those whose sin is NOT deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, which I DO NOT say you should pray. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.

So what do you think about that, do you think that if you are in a state of mortal sin, you can go to God and repent and ask for forgiveness? IF so why is it said you should not do this.

Why James says, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed.

Please show me scripture that states you should confess your sins in private.:confused:

Now if someone is sick he should summon the elders of the Church which are Priests, and THEY should PRAY over him, and ANOINT him with OIL in the name of the Lord and the PRAYERS of the FAITH will SAVE the sick person and the LORD will raise him up. If he committed ANY SINS he will be forgiven.

The results of the prayer and anointing are Physical health AND FORGIVENESS of sins.

So does that not state in clear English that the prayers of the Faith, which is the Priests will SAVE the sick, and if he committed ANY SINS he will be forgiven.

Now you must show me where all sin can be prayed in silence and be forgiven, if you can then we have a clear case of the word of God contradicting the word of God.
 
meltzerboy said:
Personally I believe that if there is sincere repentance toward G-d coupled with an attempt at changing one’s sinful behavior, one can be forgiven. However, according to Jewish teaching, if the sin was committed against one’s fellow man, one must ask forgiveness directly from the injured party.
Click to expand...
That is not what the Church teaches. And I do agree with you that we must confess to one another. That is in line with the teachings of the Church.
 
meltzerboy said:
Might not hearing the words of a priest that they are absolved from their sins instill in some penitents the feeling that they need not be perfectly contrite and change their behavior, since if and when they err again, they have the option of going to confession and being absolved again?
Click to expand...
Not at all. A Priest has the power of the Holy Spirit to hold the sin or forgive the sin. But the Priest has truly no power on this, all he has is the power of the Holy Spirit working through him, given to him by God.

Sure a person can have all and must have all intentions of changing the behavior and repeat the sin, and be forgiven once again. But it is through the process of truly repenting and asking for help from the Holy Spirit that the person can be completely cleansed from the sin.

The same as a Alcoholic can want to quit drinking, and continue to not touch a drink for 20 years and then all of sudden give in a fall off the wagon as they say. But fortunately we have a God who knows our weaknesses and failures along the way and continues to forgive us and helps us forgive ourselves until we can be released from the temptation for the sin once and for all.

But what kind of God would we have that would give us one shot in life to sin one time and not repeat it, and then say we are out? Confession is what we call therapists today. A Priest is who helps us, and tells us you are wrong and must quit the sin, and helps us on our way.

It is said that if you want to be told what you are doing wrong and are in a state of mortal sin, go to a Priest.

IF you want to reject your sin, and be convinced it is okay go to a therapist!🤷
 
rinnie said:
Not at all. A Priest has the power of the Holy Spirit to hold the sin or forgive the sin. But the Priest has truly no power on this, all he has is the power of the Holy Spirit working through him, given to him by God.

Sure a person can have all and must have all intentions of changing the behavior and repeat the sin, and be forgiven once again. But it is through the process of truly repenting and asking for help from the Holy Spirit that the person can be completely cleansed from the sin.

The same as a Alcoholic can want to quit drinking, and continue to not touch a drink for 20 years and then all of sudden give in a fall off the wagon as they say. But fortunately we have a God who knows our weaknesses and failures along the way and continues to forgive us and helps us forgive ourselves until we can be released from the temptation for the sin once and for all.

But what kind of God would we have that would give us one shot in life to sin one time and not repeat it, and then say we are out? Confession is what we call therapists today. A Priest is who helps us, and tells us you are wrong and must quit the sin, and helps us on our way.

It is said that if you want to be told what you are doing wrong and are in a state of mortal sin, go to a Priest.

IF you want to reject your sin, and be convinced it is okay go to a therapist!🤷
Click to expand...
I agree about the fact that G-d gives us innumerable opportunities to make amends, and this is part of Jewish teaching as well. I have heard before what you mention about the priest’s ability through the Holy Spirit not to grant absolution. This seems to put a tremendous responsibility on the priest, as well as faith that he is indeed being guided by the Holy Spirit in making the decision. LOL concerning the comparison you make between going to a priest and going to a therapist: it is very apt.
 
rinnie said:
That is not what the Church teaches. And I do agree with you that we must confess to one another. That is in line with the teachings of the Church.
Click to expand...
Oh, I am aware that the Church does not teach this. I was responding to a comment by an Evangelical Christian.
 
meltzerboy said:
Might not hearing the words of a priest that they are absolved from their sins instill in some penitents the feeling that they need not be perfectly contrite and change their behavior, since if and when they err again, they have the option of going to confession and being absolved again?
Click to expand...
Quite possibly, if they are not well catechized. The fact that some, even many Catholics remain in their ignorance concerning the sacrament does not invalidate the sacrament, however. And keep in mind, if one is not repentant and has no contrition for their sins, even though they confess and hear the words of absolution, the sacrament is of no effect. This is not magic. God still reads our hearts and knows our true intentions and it is Christ to whom we confess. If we are not honest in desiring to repent and convert our lives we might as well stay home, because there is no absolution. And if a priest can discern that this is the case he will not grant absolution anyway.
 
meltzerboy said:
I agree about the fact that G-d gives us innumerable opportunities to make amends, and this is part of Jewish teaching as well. I have heard before what you mention about the priest’s ability through the Holy Spirit not to grant absolution. This seems to put a tremendous responsibility on the priest, as well as faith that he is indeed being guided by the Holy Spirit in making the decision. LOL concerning the comparison you make between going to a priest and going to a therapist: it is very apt.
Click to expand...
Not really because the Priest knows that he cannot forgive sins without the help of the Holy Spirit.

Like for instance God works both ways. Let me explain.

Lets say I am having an affair with another man. I say to the Priest I want to be forgiven for committing adultery against my husband. The Priest says Okay, I repent my sin and say I am sorry, Father will you forgive me.

The Priest says you must not have any relations out of marriage anymore. I am like no Father, I just want out of committing adultery, I want forgiven, but I cannot quit sleeping with my boyfriend. I want a free pass here.

The priest will say you cannot be forgiven. I say why not? I repented, admitted my sin, Does God not forgive a person who sincerely repents?

The Priest would say you need to not only confess the sin, and Repent, be sorry, you must quit.

I say well I love this man, and cannot end this. Then the Priest says you are bound to that sin until you truly have all intentions to end it.

See how God works both ways, Sometimes just hearing a person speak (ah the big mouth the window to the soul:D) shows the Priest truth.

Although no one can deny I am sorry for sinning against God, I mean lets face it I am. But I just want absolution for my current sin, but have no intentions in not repeating it. More or less I am wasting my time and the Priests.

I am sure most times its not that transparent, but the Holy Spirit is releasing the soul, not the priest. He is only a human letting the Holy Spirit work through him.
 
dronald said:
I think this is a good method and would be expected by God as well if possible. Asking forgiveness and repenting with a sincere heart is extremely important.

But the idea that a sincere heart would be rejected is confusing to me. One should know in one’s heart if they are truly sorry for said sin and are looking to refrain from said sin again. Repentance doesn’t just mean apologizing, but changing one’s ways. I can’t see God rejecting that.
Click to expand...
dronald, just for the sake of arguing. Who is saying that a sincere heart would be rejected by God is they are truly sorry and agree to change their ways.

We are saying if its mortal sin it must be confessed to a Priest first, then continue as stated.

What we are asking from you is PROOF from the bible that you can be in a state of mortal sin and do not have to go to a Priest to be forgiven. That’s what I need.
 
Is repentance necessary for forgiveness? I have never heard this before or maybe I did and I was to young or just do not remember.

What are the references that I can read outside of the bible that deal with the subject of repentance and forgiveness of sins? I would love old older texts something before 500bc. That was an arbitrary number. I should probably check out the appropriate sections of the summa theologica. I am a slow reader so please do not tell me about anything longer than 5 pages I won’t read something that long that I do not actually care about.

I looked and it seems that Tertullian wrote about repentance maybe I’ll finish reading that later tonight and something from it will apply.
 
andrewstx said:
Not all Protestants do without confession. Both the Lutherans and Episcopalians have confession. Either privately to a priest, or publicly as part of their liturgy.

Even Presbyterians have public confession with absolution.

Orthodox have private confession, but we don’t go into a small room to confess. We confess in the open church.
Click to expand...
As an Episcopalian I have on occasion done confession with the parish priest privately in addition to our public confession as part of our liturgy which you rightly point out in your post.

👍
 
Protestor said:
Is repentance necessary for forgiveness? I have never heard this before or maybe I did and I was to young or just do not remember.

What are the references that I can read outside of the bible that deal with the subject of repentance and forgiveness of sins? I would love old older texts something before 500bc. That was an arbitrary number. I should probably check out the appropriate sections of the summa theologica. I am a slow reader so please do not tell me about anything longer than 5 pages I won’t read something that long that I do not actually care about.

I looked and it seems that Tertullian wrote about repentance maybe I’ll finish reading that later tonight and something from it will apply.
Click to expand...
What do you think could help you better then the word of God?:confused:
 
Isaiah45_9 said:
The question is backwards my friend.

Protestant translations changed the words Priests (Presbyteros) and Bishops (Episkopos) so they wouldn’t sound too Catholic.
Click to expand...
No. When they see “heirus” they translate priest .When they see presbyteros , they translate presbyter. Do CC have both translated priest ? and Why ? Seems presbyter is more appropriate.
 
Protestor said:
Is repentance necessary for forgiveness? I have never heard this before or maybe I did and I was to young or just do not remember.

What are the references that I can read outside of the bible that deal with the subject of repentance and forgiveness of sins? I would love old older texts something before 500bc. That was an arbitrary number. I should probably check out the appropriate sections of the summa theologica. I am a slow reader so please do not tell me about anything longer than 5 pages I won’t read something that long that I do not actually care about.

I looked and it seems that Tertullian wrote about repentance maybe I’ll finish reading that later tonight and something from it will apply.
Click to expand...
Think about what you posted for just a second. Repentance means having a true sorrow for the sins you committed and a determination not to repeat the same behaviors. If you confess a sin–let’s just say adultery–but have absolutely no intention of changing the behavior, infact are planning to meet your lover later that evening, how can you claim to be in repentance? This does NOT mean that you may not stumble and fall even into the same sin again. We are all humans and as such are weak. However if you are truly NOT sorry for a sin and have exactly zero intention of changing your behavior then how could you possibly claim repentance? God doesn’t play mind games. He, above all, knows what is really in our hearts. It’s a total waste to go to confession if we are unrepentant. All God asks us for to be forgiven a sin, is a sincere sorrow for having committed the sin and a determination to TRY to do better. Is that too much for God to ask—that we mean what we say and be straight with Him?🤷
 
Protestor said:
That works as well. Are you trying to say that tradition isn’t from God
Click to expand...
Huh?:confused: You can’t have the true word of God without Sacred Tradition. Without S.T. you could never truly understand S.S.

But because S.T. is not written in the bible, and S.S. is what makes one any more or any less the word of God.

Are not S.S. and S.T. the true word of God?🤷
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top