Protestants: How would you define Christ's Church?

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mesl4

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I know what Catholics would say, so I really want to know how Protestants define it. I would’ve said all those who put their faith in Christ as their savior and trust him. But that leaves open a lot for question/debate. Then you have to define Christ, and does it mean you must have faith in the trinity? Most Christians would say yes, but that’s not what Jesus said, or the apostles. Anyway, mainly, tell me what this “Church” is that Christ was going to build on the rock which the gates of hell would not prevail against.Thanks!
 
mesl4 said:
I know what Catholics would say, so I really want to know how Protestants define it. I would’ve said all those who put their faith in Christ as their savior and trust him. But that leaves open a lot for question/debate. Then you have to define Christ, and does it mean you must have faith in the trinity? Most Christians would say yes, but that’s not what Jesus said, or the apostles. Anyway, mainly, tell me what this “Church” is that Christ was going to build on the rock which the gates of hell would not prevail against.Thanks!
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Christ Church is made up of all that are in the body of Christ.
Who is in the body of Christ?
Anyone who is a Christian.
Who is a Christian?
A Christian is anyone who has been born again or reborn in the spirit.
 
Hisalone said:
Christ Church is made up of all that are in the body of Christ.
Who is in the body of Christ?
Anyone who is a Christian.
Who is a Christian?
A Christian is anyone who has been born again or reborn in the spirit.
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Anyone who is a Christian? The Wacco guy and his followers were Christians who got burned up in texas, Mr. Jones was a Christian and made all who followed him suicide. Mormons, JW’s, SDA’s have different beliefs of who Jesus is, yet they claim to be a Christian. Is the body of Jesus Christ so divided?

The bible teaches their is only “One Faith, One Baptism, One Lord” and One Church in the body of Jesus Christ. Where can one faith claim to be this what the bible teaches? There is truly only one.
 
Gabriel_of_12 said:
Anyone who is a Christian? The Wacco guy and his followers were Christians who got burned up in texas, Mr. Jones was a Christian and made all who followed him suicide. Mormons, JW’s, SDA’s have different beliefs of who Jesus is, yet they claim to be a Christian. Is the body of Jesus Christ so divided?

The bible teaches their is only “One Faith, One Baptism, One Lord” and One Church in the body of Jesus Christ. Where can one faith claim to be this what the bible teaches? There is truly only one.
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Gabriel of 12,
First, if they do not Baptize in the trinitarian form, they are not Christians.

Let’s presume, for a moment, that the one true church is the Catholic Church. Do I understand the Catechism of the Catholic Church to say that through my Lutheran Baptism, I am linked to the Catholic Church in a very real way? And the Orthodox? and protestant churches?
Is that a correct understanding of Catholic teaching, my good friend?
Jon
 
But to both of you, the idea of needing to be baptized in a trinitarian formula to be a christian is not what all “christians” would say. Mormons do use the same words, and claim christ as their savior, but have a different understanding of who christ and the holy spirit are and how they are one. So as gabriel 12 points out it would seem odd that this true one church or body of christ would be so different in key elements. Unless, the body of christ were to include anyone who claims Jesus as their savior, regardless of definition of Jesus/trinity. If one were saved simply by the desire/willingness/trying to follow Christ as they know how, then that would include many types of “christians” and the differences really wouldn’t matter. The main thing that would matter would be intent. But I’m not sure that’s what jesus/the apostles meant by “The Church.” 🤷 :confused:
 
mesl4 said:
But to both of you, the idea of needing to be baptized in a trinitarian formula to be a christian is not what all “christians” would say. Mormons do use the same words, and claim christ as their savior, but have a different understanding of who christ and the holy spirit are and how they are one. So as gabriel 12 points out it would seem odd that this true one church or body of christ would be so different in key elements. Unless, the body of christ were to include anyone who claims Jesus as their savior, regardless of definition of Jesus/trinity. If one were saved simply by the desire/willingness/trying to follow Christ as they know how, then that would include many types of “christians” and the differences really wouldn’t matter. The main thing that would matter would be intent. But I’m not sure that’s what jesus/the apostles meant by “The Church.” 🤷 :confused:
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Notice how I said anyone who is born again,
 
Everyone who you will see in heaven is Christ’s Church.
 
JonNC said:
Gabriel of 12,
First, if they do not Baptize in the trinitarian form, they are not Christians.

Let’s presume, for a moment, that the one true church is the Catholic Church. Do I understand the Catechism of the Catholic Church to say that through my Lutheran Baptism, I am linked to the Catholic Church in a very real way? And the Orthodox? and protestant churches?
Is that a correct understanding of Catholic teaching, my good friend?
Jon
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Yes you are correct. But what of those who do not baptise, or baptise without the Trinitarian formula of Jesus Christ? Some Christians baptise only in the name of Jesus and not the Trinitarian formula, are all these Christians also?
 
mesl4 said:
But to both of you, the idea of needing to be baptized in a trinitarian formula to be a christian is not what all “christians” would say. Mormons do use the same words, and claim christ as their savior, but have a different understanding of who christ and the holy spirit are and how they are one. So as gabriel 12 points out it would seem odd that this true one church or body of christ would be so different in key elements. Unless, the body of christ were to include anyone who claims Jesus as their savior, regardless of definition of Jesus/trinity. If one were saved simply by the desire/willingness/trying to follow Christ as they know how, then that would include many types of “christians” and the differences really wouldn’t matter. The main thing that would matter would be intent. But I’m not sure that’s what jesus/the apostles meant by “The Church.” 🤷 :confused:
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Lets consider the “Kingdom of God” as Jesus puts it in his parables. John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, “Amen, amen, I say to you, **no one can see the kingdom of God without being born 3 from above.” 5 **Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, **no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. **6
What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit.

So to enter into the Kingdom of God Jesus states one has to be baptised with Water and the Holy Spirit. Now that one enters the Kingdom of God, now has to recieve the Paraclete, Advocate, Comforter, the Holy Spirit this brings up the Sacrament of Confirmation. My point is after one becomes a Christian validly through the baptismal waters, what comes next for the Christian? Or do most non catholics remain just an infant in baptism?
 
Gabriel_of_12 said:
Lets consider the “Kingdom of God” as Jesus puts it in his parables. John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, “Amen, amen, I say to you, **no one can see the kingdom of God without being born 3 from above.” 5 **Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, **no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. **6
What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit.

So to enter into the Kingdom of God Jesus states one has to be baptised with Water and the Holy Spirit. Now that one enters the Kingdom of God, now has to recieve the Paraclete, Advocate, Comforter, the Holy Spirit this brings up the Sacrament of Confirmation. My point is after one becomes a Christian validly through the baptismal waters, what comes next for the Christian? Or do most non catholics remain just an infant in baptism?
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My point is that a “valid” baptism is really hard to determine. I would think that is best left between the person and God. If it says in the name of Jesus, and the person already believes Jesus is the son of god/messiah, than it doesn’t seem like that would matter. They are just words. Catholics seem to think very concretely/taboo/magic spell-like…specific words are more important in Catholic doctrine, than the faith/heart/desire of the person. That seems very contrary to Jesus’ teaching.
 
Hisalone said:
Christ Church is made up of all that are in the body of Christ.
Who is in the body of Christ?
Anyone who is a Christian.
Who is a Christian?
A Christian is anyone who has been born again or reborn in the spirit.
Click to expand...
How about the ones who have fallen away?
Are they still Christians?
 
Gabriel_of_12 said:
Yes you are correct. But what of those who do not baptise, or baptise without the Trinitarian formula of Jesus Christ? Some Christians baptise only in the name of Jesus and not the Trinitarian formula, are all these Christians also?
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Perhaps, and I will leave the final determination to God Himself. But scripture tells us to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Here on earth, we have no reason to believe that Baptism outside the trinitarian form is valid, but Christ is in heaven and all merciful.

Jon
 
mesl4 said:
My point is that a “valid” baptism is really hard to determine. I would think that is best left between the person and God. If it says in the name of Jesus, and the person already believes Jesus is the son of god/messiah, than it doesn’t seem like that would matter. They are just words. Catholics seem to think very concretely/taboo/magic spell-like…specific words are more important in Catholic doctrine, than the faith/heart/desire of the person. That seems very contrary to Jesus’ teaching.
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Maybe this is why Jesus renamed Simon bar Jona to Peter (Kephas) “ROCK”. Because the Catholic church possesses the full deposit of Faith from Jesus, and this Rock will not move for every wind of doctrine that comes by throughtout the ages. Jesus gave us the baptismal formula, the Catholic church did not invent it herself, it was handed on to her to protect, tend, feed the sheep and lambs of God.

So you are misunderstanding the Catholic church when the “Rock” will not move, when man tries to change the teachings of Jesus. It is not surperstitions as you presuppose, what you call tabboo or spell, is not that in the least, the Catholic church is protecting what God has commissioned her to do, go out teach, feed, and tend to the lambs (children) of God in the word.
 
Gabriel_of_12 said:
Yes you are correct. But what of those who do not baptise, or baptise without the Trinitarian formula of Jesus Christ? Some Christians baptise only in the name of Jesus and not the Trinitarian formula, are all these Christians also?
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anyone who believes in God/Jesus ,trusts in him as savior of mankind and living a sinless life and according to God’s Word… (the sinless life i mean is refusing to do sin… i mean ALL and i say again… ALL of us has Original Sin…
 
mesl4 said:
My point is that a “valid” baptism is really hard to determine. I would think that is best left between the person and God. If it says in the name of Jesus, and the person already believes Jesus is the son of god/messiah, than it doesn’t seem like that would matter. They are just words. Catholics seem to think very concretely/taboo/magic spell-like…specific words are more important in Catholic doctrine, than the faith/heart/desire of the person. That seems very contrary to Jesus’ teaching.
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Since Baptism is a sacrament instituted by Christ, the proper matter, form, and order are important! We baptise humans w/water in the name of the Trinity. We don’t baptise animals or use maple syrup in the name of Mickey Mouse. It has nothing to do with a “magic spell”; rather, it is a sign of joining into the New Covenant in a physical and spiritual way.

Catholics also believe in a baptism of desire. See this link: catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0002chap.asp
 
UtSuShImI said:
anyone who believes in God/Jesus ,trusts in him as savior of mankind and living a sinless life and according to God’s Word… (the sinless life i mean is refusing to do sin… i mean ALL and i say again… ALL of us has Original Sin…
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Show me a man without sin and I will show to you a “Liar”. Satan and his devils believe in Jesus and know who he is, yet these are dammed for eternity. The only way to the “Father” is through the “Son Jesus Christ”. Now one does not enter into the family of God unless he born of Water and Spirit which is Baptism, now this is the beginning of the journey into eternity.
 
JonNC;:
scripture tells us to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
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Only because of the interpolation that is the Johannine Comma.
ROSS09;:
Since Baptism is a sacrament instituted by Christ, the proper matter, form, and order are important!
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The Didache lists four different ways by which baptism can be performed, though it suggests that only the first is proper. (Maybe those Baptist who use a local creek are onto something.)

jonathon
 
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