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elvisman
Guest
Sorry, friend - it doesn’t work that way.
I asked first, and if you can’t answer it - I’ve proved my point.
Answer the question or move on.
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I asked first, and if you can’t answer it - I’ve proved my point.
Answer the question or move on.
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Fludgecow101
Guest
So pretty much unless your not a christain, you go to hell? So much for a God with love and mercy for EVERYONE. He loves us all equally and wants you, me, Billy Bob, that african tribe leader, and that serial killer all in heaven no matter what. Just becuase you never heard of God doesn’t mean you can’t go to heaven, kinda like how saying a simple praying comfirming my belief that Jesus came to save us from sin will guarantee me going to heaven (even though you might want it to be that easy and simple).
Or did you just mean that everyone that made it to heaven was in Christ Church even though they never heard of Him, etc.?
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Ben_Masada
Guest
I would define Christ’s Church as the Church of Paul, considering that it was Paul who founded Christianity. In fact, we have in Acts 11:26 that it was with Paul when the first Christians started.
Ben:
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elvisman
Guest
Sorry, friend - but you’re wrong.I would define Christ’s Church as the Church of Paul, considering that it was Paul who founded Christianity. In fact, we have in Acts 11:26 that it was with Paul when the first Christians started.
Ben:
Paul wasn’t even among the first Christians. There were thousands before him. Acts 2:41 tells us that there were 3000 added to the number of believers in one day - way before Paul was converted.
What you’re doing is playing word games. The believers were first called “Christians” in Antioch and Paul was there. This doesn’t mean that they didn’t exist before that.
Nice try, though . . .
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Napsack
Guest
Why are you so rude and arrogant? I asked you if it is the same for a Catholic if they fall away as it would be any other Christian. I wasn’t trying to hijack your thunder here.
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catholic_daddy
Guest
Arrogant blather.
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catholic_daddy
Guest
Yeh, that maybe wasn’t the best label ever, but Paul did become the missionary to the Gentiles, and if you examine the book of Acts and the writings of Paul, you have to say that a good protestant church looks and teaches a whole lot more like that than a typical RCC.Sorry, friend - but you’re wrong.
**Paul wasn’t even among the first **Christians. There were thousands before him. Acts 2:41 tells us that there were 3000 added to the number of believers in one day - way before Paul was converted.
What you’re doing is playing word games. The believers were first called “Christians” in Antioch and Paul was there. This doesn’t mean that they didn’t exist before that.
Nice try, though . . .
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Ben_Masada
Guest
Well Elvisman, your try was also nice but it didn’t butter my bread.Sorry, friend - but you’re wrong.
**Paul wasn’t even among the first **Christians. There were thousands before him. Acts 2:41 tells us that there were 3000 added to the number of believers in one day - way before Paul was converted.
What you’re doing is playing word games. The believers were first called “Christians” in Antioch and Paul was there. This doesn’t mean that they didn’t exist before that.
Nice try, though . . .
If there were Christians before Paul, why didn’t they preach that Jesus was Christ? Paul appeared in Jerusalem about 30 years after Jesus was gone, preaching that Jesus was Christ, son of God, and that he had resurrected, and for that he was nearly killed for preaching heresy in Jerusalem. (Acts 9:29)
How about those before him? What were they preaching about Jesus to coexist peacefully with mainstream Judaism? I’ll tell you who they were: They were the Nazarenes, who were as surprised about Paul’s gospel as the local Jews who wanted to kill him. Those Nazarenes would make converts even from among the Pharisees.
Ben:
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elvisman
Guest
**Hey nobody’s being rude or arrogant here - except both of you. **I asked a question and received - not an answer - but a question.
It’s only “rude” and arrogant" because neither of you can answer it.
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elvisman
Guest
Please tell me you’re joking so that we can have an intelligent conversation.Well Elvisman, your try was also nice but it didn’t butter my bread.
If there were Christians before Paul, why didn’t they preach that Jesus was Christ? Paul appeared in Jerusalem about 30 years after Jesus was gone, preaching that Jesus was Christ, son of God, and that he had resurrected, and for that he was nearly killed for preaching heresy in Jerusalem. (Acts 9:29)
How about those before him? What were they preaching about Jesus to coexist peacefully with mainstream Judaism? I’ll tell you who they were: They were the Nazarenes, who were as surprised about Paul’s gospel as the local Jews who wanted to kill him. Those Nazarenes would make converts even from among the Pharisees.
Ben:
**Hmmmm, let’s see - nobody but Paul teaches that Jesus is the Christ. 1 Peter mentions Jesus being the Christ 6 times in the opening chapter. Same with the 1st Chapter of 2 Peter. James (1 time), 1st John (1 time), 2nd John (2 times), Jude (6 times). Where do you get your information from? Certainly not from the Scriptures.
**
In Acts 2:38, Peter is addressing the crowd of thousands - in Jerusalem - and tells them to repent and be baptized - in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins! In the very next chapter, he cures a cripple - again - in the name of Jesus Christ.
**In Acts 4, not only does Peter mention Jesus Christ to the Chief Priests - he blames them for his death! In Chapter 5, he and John were in danger of being stoned to death by the crowds for proclaiming that Jesus was the Messiah, were scourged, then released by the Sanhedrin.
In Acts 7, Saul (Paul) presided over the killing of Stephen - who proclaimed Jesus. Right before he died Acts 7:59, Stephen calls out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”
**Hmmm . . . sounds pretty **Christian to me.
What makes you think that the Apostles were suprised by Paul’s teachings? They were teaching about Jesus long before Paul entered the picture. Now, Saul (Paul) isn’t even converted until Chapter 9 of Acts and yet, you still claim that he founded Christianity?
**
Care to amend your statement?
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elvisman
Guest
Unfortunately, too many small Protestant churches try to look too much like the early Church - except for the Real Presence in the Eucharist is missing.
** They don’t realize that the body of Christ is a living, breathing entity and as such must grow from an acorn into an oak - a mustard seed into the mustard plant, if you will.**
Jesus never intended for his Church to remain a seed - but to grow as she spread out all over the earth, as he commissioned her to do so.
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jblake
Guest
elvisman;:
jonathon
You might want to take another look at Paul’s timeline, and then cross-reference it to the timeline of Jesus.
jonathon
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mesl4
Guest
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mesl4
Guest
so have any of you considered that when Jesus told Peter he would build his church on that rock/Peter, he wasn’t referring to building a physical/institutional church, but was referring to a spiritual church? Peter was the rock because of his faith. So, faith is the rock and those that have faith, build upon that in the spiritual kingdom. No?
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Hajnalcsillag
Guest
I agree. 2,000 years later, there’s still debate as to whether “this rock” refers to Peter himself or the statement of faith that “You are the Christ, the Son of God”.
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elvisman
Guest
Wo is WE?
Unless you’re part of the Church - you ain’t.
You’re a separated borother or sister who will one day come back to the fold.
This is the hope of the Church.
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elvisman
Guest
Jonathon -
**The argument was that Paul founded Christianity. This is a falsehood. Do you actually believe this? A rudimentary study of Acts will show you that there were thousands of Christians before Paul (Saul). **
Saul was persecuting the early Christians before his conversion. If you don’t accept this - you don’t know your scripture.
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mesl4
Guest
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jblake
Guest
elvisman;:
(I wish I could remember which of the Patriarchs said that Paul’s timeline and the time line of Jesus were so discongruent, that, were it not for the Grace of God, the New Testament would have to be a lie.)
jonathon
That same rudimentary study, when combined with a rudimentary study of the Pauline Epistles and the Gospels, will give you a timeline that is radically different from the one you are advocating.
(I wish I could remember which of the Patriarchs said that Paul’s timeline and the time line of Jesus were so discongruent, that, were it not for the Grace of God, the New Testament would have to be a lie.)
jonathon
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elvisman
Guest
So, Acts is out of chronological order because you say so?All I can say to you is, "Prove it, brother."
This is a new one. I can claim that Jesus is a space alien but the onus would be on me to prove it.
Nowhere in history does the Church ever claim that St. Paul instituted the Church. It’s so ludicrous, it borders on heresy.
But, it doesn’t surprise me. That’s the legacy of Protestantism - One bizarre belief after another - one more new denomination . . . and another, and another . . .
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