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Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello roadrunner,
Jesus and Old Testament sum up obedience to God’s commandments as love for God and neighbor. How do you come around to inturpeting the opposite?
Please visit Choices Of The Heart
NIV 1JO 5:3
This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.NIV JOH 14:15
"If you love me, you will obey what I command."
**NAB JOH 15:22 **
“If I had not come to them and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; now, however, their sin cannot be excused. To hate me is to hate my Father. Had I not performed such works among them as no one has ever done before, they would not be guilty of sin; but as it is, they have seen, and they go on hating me and my Father.” INT JOH 14:23
Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.” **NAB JOH 15:9 **
“As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you. Live on in my love. You will live in my love if you keep my commandments, even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and live in his love. All this I tell you that my joy may be yours and your joy may be complete. This is my commandment: love one another as I have loved you. There is no greater love than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you.” NAB DEU 6:1
"These then are the commandments, the statutes and decrees which the LORD, your God, has ordered that you be taught to observe in the land into which you are crossing for conquest, so that you and your son and your grandson may fear the LORD, your God, and keep, throughout the days of your lives, all his statutes and commandments which I enjoin on you, and thus have long life. Hear then, Israel, and be careful to observe them, that you may grow and prosper the more in keeping with the promise of the LORD, the God of your fathers, to give you a land flowing with milk and honey." The great commandment. Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone! Therefore, you shall love the LORD, your God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength. Take to heart these words which I enjoin on you today. Drill them into your children. Speak of them at home and abroad, whether you are busy or at rest. Bind them at your wrist as a sign and let them be as a pendant on your forehead. Write them on the doorposts of your houses and on your gates.NAB MAR 12 The Great Commandment.
(Jesus quotes from Old Testament which sums up obedience to God’s commandments as love for God.)
“Which is the first of all the commandments?” Jesus replied, "This is the first: 'Hear O Israel! The Lord our God is Lord alone!
Therefore you shall love the Lord your God
with all your heart,
with all your soul,
with all your mind,
and with all your strength.'
"This is the second,
’You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
NAB 2JO 1:5
. . .** let us love one another. This love involves our walking according to the commandments**,
S
Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello Mystophilus,
The Keys are to Jesus house, the Kingdom of God. Jesus gave Apostolic Successors the power to lock souls out of God’s house or to loost sin to allow souls into God’s house. This is a very powerful governing tool.
S
Steven_Merten
Guest
hello roadrunner,
I wanted to show you why you, as a Protestant, did not know that love for God is obedience to God’s commands. Jesus teaches us If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments but Luther hates this answer and boldly quotes and opposes Jesus teaching on this. Jesus teaches us that people will be judged into heaven through Him or hell based on conduct, but Luther hates Christ’s teaching on this and elliminated Jesus teachings from his Lutheran theology.
Luther pretty much elliminated the gospels of Jesus, Old Testament, St. Peter and St. James from his Lutheran theology. Luther focuses the foundation of his Protestant Church theology on his misconception of St. Paul’s writtings pertaining to the outdated law of circumcision. Luther mistakenly thought St. Paul was reffering to God’s commandments instead of the Pharisee’s law and circumcision. One would think that it would have sent up a red flag to Luther when he had to elliminate Jesus teachings from his new Protestant theology.
Luther The doctrine of our opponents is similar to that of the false apostles in Paul’s day.Our opponents teach, "If you want to live unto God, you must live after the Law, for it is written, Do this and thou shalt live."
NAB MAT 19:16
“Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?” He answered, “Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” “Which ones?” he asked. Jesus replied “You shall not kill”; ‘You shall not commit adultery’; ‘You shall not steal’; ‘You shall not bear false witness’; ‘Honor your father and mother’; and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’" NAB JOH 5:27
"The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned." NAB ROM 2:6 (St. Paul is speaking)
. . . when he will repay every man for what he has done: eternal life to those who strive for glory, honor, and immortality by patiently doing right; wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.
**NAB **REV 22:12
“Remember, I am coming soon! I bring with me the reward that will be given to each man as his conduct deserves. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End! **Happy are they who wash their robes so as to have free access to the tree of life **and enter the city through its gates Outside are the dogs and sorcerers, the fornicators and murderers, the idol-worshipers and all who love falsehood.”
I wanted to show you why you, as a Protestant, did not know that love for God is obedience to God’s commands. Jesus teaches us If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments but Luther hates this answer and boldly quotes and opposes Jesus teaching on this. Jesus teaches us that people will be judged into heaven through Him or hell based on conduct, but Luther hates Christ’s teaching on this and elliminated Jesus teachings from his Lutheran theology.
Luther pretty much elliminated the gospels of Jesus, Old Testament, St. Peter and St. James from his Lutheran theology. Luther focuses the foundation of his Protestant Church theology on his misconception of St. Paul’s writtings pertaining to the outdated law of circumcision. Luther mistakenly thought St. Paul was reffering to God’s commandments instead of the Pharisee’s law and circumcision. One would think that it would have sent up a red flag to Luther when he had to elliminate Jesus teachings from his new Protestant theology.
Luther The doctrine of our opponents is similar to that of the false apostles in Paul’s day.Our opponents teach, "If you want to live unto God, you must live after the Law, for it is written, Do this and thou shalt live."
NAB MAT 19:16
“Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?” He answered, “Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” “Which ones?” he asked. Jesus replied “You shall not kill”; ‘You shall not commit adultery’; ‘You shall not steal’; ‘You shall not bear false witness’; ‘Honor your father and mother’; and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’" NAB JOH 5:27
"The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned." NAB ROM 2:6 (St. Paul is speaking)
. . . when he will repay every man for what he has done: eternal life to those who strive for glory, honor, and immortality by patiently doing right; wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.
**NAB **REV 22:12
“Remember, I am coming soon! I bring with me the reward that will be given to each man as his conduct deserves. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End! **Happy are they who wash their robes so as to have free access to the tree of life **and enter the city through its gates Outside are the dogs and sorcerers, the fornicators and murderers, the idol-worshipers and all who love falsehood.”
S
Steven_Merten
Guest
(continued)
NAB MAT 25:31
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” NAB DEU 6:1
"These then are the commandments, the statutes and decrees which the LORD, your God, has ordered that you be taught to observe in the land into which you are crossing for conquest, so that you and your son and your grandson may fear the LORD, your God, and keep, throughout the days of your lives, all his statutes and commandments which I enjoin on you, and thus have long life. Hear then, Israel, and be careful to observe them, that you may grow and prosper the more in keeping with the promise of the LORD, the God of your fathers, to give you a land flowing with milk and honey." The great commandment. Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone! Therefore, you shall love the LORD, your God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength. Take to heart these words which I enjoin on you today. Drill them into your children. Speak of them at home and abroad, whether you are busy or at rest. Bind them at your wrist as a sign and let them be as a pendant on your forehead. Write them on the doorposts of your houses and on your gates. NAB LUK 10:25
On one occasion a lawyer stood up to pose him this problem: “Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?” Jesus answered him: "What is written in the law? How do you read it?" He replied:
"You shall love the Lord your God
with all your heart,
with all your soul,
with all your strength,
and with all your mind;
and your neighbor as yourself."
Jesus said, “You have answered correctly. Do this and you shall live.”
NAB MAT 25:31
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” NAB DEU 6:1
"These then are the commandments, the statutes and decrees which the LORD, your God, has ordered that you be taught to observe in the land into which you are crossing for conquest, so that you and your son and your grandson may fear the LORD, your God, and keep, throughout the days of your lives, all his statutes and commandments which I enjoin on you, and thus have long life. Hear then, Israel, and be careful to observe them, that you may grow and prosper the more in keeping with the promise of the LORD, the God of your fathers, to give you a land flowing with milk and honey." The great commandment. Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone! Therefore, you shall love the LORD, your God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength. Take to heart these words which I enjoin on you today. Drill them into your children. Speak of them at home and abroad, whether you are busy or at rest. Bind them at your wrist as a sign and let them be as a pendant on your forehead. Write them on the doorposts of your houses and on your gates. NAB LUK 10:25
On one occasion a lawyer stood up to pose him this problem: “Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?” Jesus answered him: "What is written in the law? How do you read it?" He replied:
"You shall love the Lord your God
with all your heart,
with all your soul,
with all your strength,
and with all your mind;
and your neighbor as yourself."
Jesus said, “You have answered correctly. Do this and you shall live.”
T
TertiumQuid
Guest
Steven Merten:
Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Luther knows how important the law was in his theology, and he did not seek to minimize its influence. Luther taught that anyone who is to preach must be able to preach the law: “First, he must preach the Law so that the people may learn what great things God demands of us; of these we cannot perform any because of the impotence of our nature which has been corrupted by Adam’s fall.”
Luther also points out that only by knowing God’s law does one even know what a good work is: “…Only those things are good works which God has commanded, just as only that is a sin which god has forbidden. Therefore, he who wants to know and do good works need only know God’s Commandments… These Commandments of God must teach us how to distinguish among good works.”
These examples show that Luther valued the law. Luther scholar Paul Althaus points out for Luther, “The Ten Commandments have their place not only ‘before’ but also ‘after’ justification; thus they not only exercise the Christian in the theological function of the law but also lead him to a right knowledge of the good he ought to do according to God’s will.” Luther composed a hymn on the Ten Commandments in which he states, “To us come these commands, that so- Thou son of man, thy sins mayst know- And make thee also well perceive- How before God man should live.” Elsewhere Luther said of the Ten Commandments, “They are the true fountain from which all good works must flow.”
“Faith,” wrote Luther, “is a living, restless thing. It cannot be inoperative. We are not saved by works; but if there be no works, there must be something amiss with faith.” Luther scholar Paul Althaus notes: “{Luther} also agrees with James that if no works follow it is certain that true faith in Christ does not live in the heart but a dead, imagined, and self-fabricated faith." The book of James describes a real true faith in Christ: a real saving faith is a living faith. If no works are found in a person, that faith is a dead faith (c.f. James 2:17). James then describes a dead faith: the faith of a demon. A demon has faith that God exists, that Christ rose from the dead- I would dare say a demon knows theology better than you or I. But is the faith of this demon a saving faith? Absolutely not. Luther says, “Accordingly, if good works do not follow, it is certain that this faith in Christ does not dwell in our heart, but dead faith…”
Luther taught a life under the cross, which is a life of discipleship of following after Christ. Our crosses though, do not save. They serve the neighbor. We are called to be neighbor to those around us. Luther says,
“We receive Christ not only as a gift by faith, but also as an example of love toward our neighbor, whom we are to serve as Christ serves us. Faith brings and gives Christ to you with all his possessions. Love gives you to your neighbor with all your possessions. These two things constitute a true and complete Christian life; then follow suffering and persecution for such faith and love, and out of these grows hope and patience.”
For a further look at Luther’s understanding of Justification by faith alone and works, see:
ntrmin.org/Be%20a%20sinner%20and%20sin%20boldly%20web.htm
Regards,
James Swan
Hi Steve,
Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Luther knows how important the law was in his theology, and he did not seek to minimize its influence. Luther taught that anyone who is to preach must be able to preach the law: “First, he must preach the Law so that the people may learn what great things God demands of us; of these we cannot perform any because of the impotence of our nature which has been corrupted by Adam’s fall.”
Luther also points out that only by knowing God’s law does one even know what a good work is: “…Only those things are good works which God has commanded, just as only that is a sin which god has forbidden. Therefore, he who wants to know and do good works need only know God’s Commandments… These Commandments of God must teach us how to distinguish among good works.”
These examples show that Luther valued the law. Luther scholar Paul Althaus points out for Luther, “The Ten Commandments have their place not only ‘before’ but also ‘after’ justification; thus they not only exercise the Christian in the theological function of the law but also lead him to a right knowledge of the good he ought to do according to God’s will.” Luther composed a hymn on the Ten Commandments in which he states, “To us come these commands, that so- Thou son of man, thy sins mayst know- And make thee also well perceive- How before God man should live.” Elsewhere Luther said of the Ten Commandments, “They are the true fountain from which all good works must flow.”
“Faith,” wrote Luther, “is a living, restless thing. It cannot be inoperative. We are not saved by works; but if there be no works, there must be something amiss with faith.” Luther scholar Paul Althaus notes: “{Luther} also agrees with James that if no works follow it is certain that true faith in Christ does not live in the heart but a dead, imagined, and self-fabricated faith." The book of James describes a real true faith in Christ: a real saving faith is a living faith. If no works are found in a person, that faith is a dead faith (c.f. James 2:17). James then describes a dead faith: the faith of a demon. A demon has faith that God exists, that Christ rose from the dead- I would dare say a demon knows theology better than you or I. But is the faith of this demon a saving faith? Absolutely not. Luther says, “Accordingly, if good works do not follow, it is certain that this faith in Christ does not dwell in our heart, but dead faith…”
Luther taught a life under the cross, which is a life of discipleship of following after Christ. Our crosses though, do not save. They serve the neighbor. We are called to be neighbor to those around us. Luther says,
“We receive Christ not only as a gift by faith, but also as an example of love toward our neighbor, whom we are to serve as Christ serves us. Faith brings and gives Christ to you with all his possessions. Love gives you to your neighbor with all your possessions. These two things constitute a true and complete Christian life; then follow suffering and persecution for such faith and love, and out of these grows hope and patience.”
For a further look at Luther’s understanding of Justification by faith alone and works, see:
ntrmin.org/Be%20a%20sinner%20and%20sin%20boldly%20web.htm
Regards,
James Swan
S
Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello James,
Thanks for your post.
Can you show us where Luther taught that we will be judged by Jesus into heaven through Him or hell based on our conduct as Jesus does? I understand that Luther taught God’s commandments and he believed them to be important. I also think that Luther hated Christ’s teaching that Jesus will judge us into heaven through Him or hell based on our conduct. What I really would like to see from you is where Luther teaches, as Jesus teaches, that we will be judged into heaven or hell based on conduct.
We Catholics believe that if a baptized baby dies, they go to heaven. I went to a Lutheran baptism. Do the Lutherans not also believe that Lutheran baptized babies who die go to heaven through Jesus without faith or works?
Anyway! Great please show me where Luther teaches that we will be judged by our conduct as Jesus does.
Thanks!
Steven
NAB MAT 19:16
“Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?” He answered, “Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” “Which ones?” he asked. Jesus replied “You shall not kill”; ‘You shall not commit adultery’; ‘You shall not steal’; ‘You shall not bear false witness’; ‘Honor your father and mother’; and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’" NAB JOH 5:27
"The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned." NAB ROM 2:6 (St. Paul is speaking)
. . . when he will repay every man for what he has done: eternal life to those who strive for glory, honor, and immortality by patiently doing right; wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.
**NAB **REV 22:12
“Remember, I am coming soon! I bring with me the reward that will be given to each man as his conduct deserves. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End! **Happy are they who wash their robes so as to have free access to the tree of life **and enter the city through its gates Outside are the dogs and sorcerers, the fornicators and murderers, the idol-worshipers and all who love falsehood.”
T
TertiumQuid
Guest
Hi Steve,
Steven Merten:
Steven Merten:
Consider also the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector in Luke 18 “Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others.” Now the Tax collector was not the one with good works that was “righteous”- It was the Pharisee. The Pharisee had plenteous good works- but Jesus says that the sinful tax collector who realized his sin “went down to his house justified”.
Don’t forget what Jesus also said: “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent”. Luther points out:
“The first, highest, and most precious of all good works is faith in Christ, and as it says in John 6:28–29], when the Jews asked him, “What must we do, to be doing the good work of God?” Jesus answered, “This is the good work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” Now when we hear that or even preach it, we pass over it: we think nothing of it and think it easy to do, but actually we ought to pause a long time and think it over properly. For in this work all good works exist, and from faith these works receive a borrowed goodness. We must make this absolutely clear, so that men can understand it.”
Steven Merten:
Steven Merten:
Steven Merten:
Regardless, this quote from Luther should suffice: commenting on Matthew 19:16-22:
“Christ does not say: You keep the commandments. He says: You should keep them. He indicates what we owe God. Now, if we do not keep them, let no man think he will come into the kingdom of heaven. If our adversaries were not blind, harebrained, and stupid, they would see that Christ does not say what I am able to do or have done but what I should do. When one says: Christ bids us keep the Commandments, it does not follow that we may add: Therefore we are able to keep them. He tells me what I should do; but they say that I am able to do it. That is far from right, my fine fellow. There surely is a great difference between ‘shall do’ and ‘can do.’ For instance, I owe a man a hundred gulden. These I must pay him. Am, I, therefore able to do so? {What Luther Says 3:1449}
Just curious- do you know anyone currently alive on earth that fulfills the great commandment? Does anyone actually love God with their whole heart, soul, strength, and mind every moment of every day?
Steven Merten:
Regards,
James Swan
Steven Merten:
You’re welcome.
Steven Merten:
Simply because someone has plenteous good works, doesn’t mean they gain entrance to heaven. As Luther points out, “Christ predicted that men would come who would do signs and wonders in order to lead even the elect into error, if that were possible. Therefore we must not rely on any works or miracles unless they are produced by faith and further faith”{What Luther Says 3:1502}
Consider also the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector in Luke 18 “Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others.” Now the Tax collector was not the one with good works that was “righteous”- It was the Pharisee. The Pharisee had plenteous good works- but Jesus says that the sinful tax collector who realized his sin “went down to his house justified”.
Don’t forget what Jesus also said: “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent”. Luther points out:
“The first, highest, and most precious of all good works is faith in Christ, and as it says in John 6:28–29], when the Jews asked him, “What must we do, to be doing the good work of God?” Jesus answered, “This is the good work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” Now when we hear that or even preach it, we pass over it: we think nothing of it and think it easy to do, but actually we ought to pause a long time and think it over properly. For in this work all good works exist, and from faith these works receive a borrowed goodness. We must make this absolutely clear, so that men can understand it.”
Steven Merten:
Good. I appreciate this.
Steven Merten:
This is a caricature of Luther because you’re using a different paradigm to judge him by. You assume “Luther hates Christ teaching” because he doesn’t agree with you. Interestingly, many Catholic scholars see Luther’s theology as Christocentric. I can provide that information for you if you wish.
Steven Merten:
Your question assumes your understanding of Catholicism- I don’t know if you would be considered an orthodox Roman Catholic, as your comments seem very Pelagian to me.
Regardless, this quote from Luther should suffice: commenting on Matthew 19:16-22:
“Christ does not say: You keep the commandments. He says: You should keep them. He indicates what we owe God. Now, if we do not keep them, let no man think he will come into the kingdom of heaven. If our adversaries were not blind, harebrained, and stupid, they would see that Christ does not say what I am able to do or have done but what I should do. When one says: Christ bids us keep the Commandments, it does not follow that we may add: Therefore we are able to keep them. He tells me what I should do; but they say that I am able to do it. That is far from right, my fine fellow. There surely is a great difference between ‘shall do’ and ‘can do.’ For instance, I owe a man a hundred gulden. These I must pay him. Am, I, therefore able to do so? {What Luther Says 3:1449}
Just curious- do you know anyone currently alive on earth that fulfills the great commandment? Does anyone actually love God with their whole heart, soul, strength, and mind every moment of every day?
Steven Merten:
Not sure about “Lutheranism” but Luther believed babies had faith. For instance, John the Baptist kicked in his mother’s womb when Mary approached with Jesus.
Regards,
James Swan
T
TertiumQuid
Guest
Steven Merten:
Romans 2:6-7 is being used to prove works righteousness in order to be justified. That same “works righteousness” is discussed in Romans 2:12. Paul lets us know that those same moral works are considered “law”. Read Romans 2:17-23- the “law” discussed is the moral law. In 2:25-29, he shifts to the ceremonial law, and notes that really, anyone who keeps the moral law is really keeping the ceremonial law, because the entirety of the law is supposed to be motivated by an inward zeal. Simply keeping outward ceremonial laws like circumcision means nothing if one breaks the moral law inwardly.
But then comes Romans 3. Everyone is guilty. Everyone is a lawbreaker. In actuality, no one keeps any of the law, be it moral or ceremonial. “Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in his sight, for by the law is the knowldege of sin.”
The law is the knowledge of sin. That’s what the entirety of the law does.
Now comes the gospel, Romans 3:21-29. Paul tells us its a different kind of righteousness that will justify men, an alien righteousness- the blessed righteousness of Christ-
But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
Regards,
James Swan
I couldn’t pass up this verse.
Romans 2:6-7 is being used to prove works righteousness in order to be justified. That same “works righteousness” is discussed in Romans 2:12. Paul lets us know that those same moral works are considered “law”. Read Romans 2:17-23- the “law” discussed is the moral law. In 2:25-29, he shifts to the ceremonial law, and notes that really, anyone who keeps the moral law is really keeping the ceremonial law, because the entirety of the law is supposed to be motivated by an inward zeal. Simply keeping outward ceremonial laws like circumcision means nothing if one breaks the moral law inwardly.
But then comes Romans 3. Everyone is guilty. Everyone is a lawbreaker. In actuality, no one keeps any of the law, be it moral or ceremonial. “Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in his sight, for by the law is the knowldege of sin.”
The law is the knowledge of sin. That’s what the entirety of the law does.
Now comes the gospel, Romans 3:21-29. Paul tells us its a different kind of righteousness that will justify men, an alien righteousness- the blessed righteousness of Christ-
But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
Regards,
James Swan
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Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello James,
Do we agree that the Pharisee saw his good works imputted into him as a grace and free gift from God. The Pharisee believed that the good works he did were **“Eucharisteo” (a grace from God, an undeserved gift he recieved from God) **imputted into him by God. Possibly he believed God did this due to his “faith” like today’s Protestants.
NAB LUK 18:9 The Pharisee and the tax collector.
He then addressed this parable to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and despised everyone else. “Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, ‘O God, I eucharisteo that I am not like the rest of humanity–greedy, dishonest, adulterous–or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.’ But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, ‘O God, be merciful to me a sinner.’ I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Eucharisteo; with the dative it always stands where there is implied a kindness done, a favor, a charis, a grace for an undeserved gift received where it appears as thanks for any good experience.
Charis; from chairio, to rejoice, or chara, joy, favor, acceptance, a kindness granted or desired, a benefit, thanks, gratitude, grace. A favor done without expectation of return; absolute freeness of loving kindness of God to men finding its only motive in the bounty and freeheartedness of the Giver; unearned an unmerited favor.
Lexicon to the Old and New Testaments, by Spiros Zodhiates, TH.D AMG publishers.
Charis; from chairio, to rejoice, or chara, joy, favor, acceptance, a kindness granted or desired, a benefit, thanks, gratitude, grace. A favor done without expectation of return; absolute freeness of loving kindness of God to men finding its only motive in the bounty and freeheartedness of the Giver; unearned an unmerited favor.
Lexicon to the Old and New Testaments, by Spiros Zodhiates, TH.D AMG publishers.
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Steven_Merten
Guest
Steven Merten:
TertiumQuid:
NAB MAT 19:16
The dangers of riches. Another time a man came up to him and said, “Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?” He answered, “Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." NAB JOH 5:27
"The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned.” NAB ROM 2:6 (St. Paul is speaking)
. . . when he will repay every man for what he has done: eternal life to those who strive for glory, honor, and immortality by patiently doing right; wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.
**NAB **REV 22:12
“Remember, I am coming soon! I bring with me the reward that will be given to each man as his conduct deserves. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End! **Happy are they who wash their robes so as to have free access to the tree of life **and enter the city through its gates Outside are the dogs and sorcerers, the fornicators and murderers, the idol-worshipers and all who love falsehood.”
Please do show us where Luther teaches that people will be judged into heaven through Him or hell based on people’s conduct. We have gone through the lengthy Luther! Read Read! thread without anyone being able to produce anything from Luther teaching us to obey the commandments if we wish to enter into life or we will be judged by our conduct, as Jesus does .
NAB MAT 19:16
The dangers of riches. Another time a man came up to him and said, “Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?” He answered, “Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." NAB JOH 5:27
"The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned.” NAB ROM 2:6 (St. Paul is speaking)
. . . when he will repay every man for what he has done: eternal life to those who strive for glory, honor, and immortality by patiently doing right; wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.
**NAB **REV 22:12
“Remember, I am coming soon! I bring with me the reward that will be given to each man as his conduct deserves. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End! **Happy are they who wash their robes so as to have free access to the tree of life **and enter the city through its gates Outside are the dogs and sorcerers, the fornicators and murderers, the idol-worshipers and all who love falsehood.”
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Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello James,
Luther is wrong. There is no “should” in Jesus teachings. Unless of course Luther added one allong with the word “alone”.
**NAB MAT 19:16
**
The dangers of riches. Another time a man came up to him and said, “Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?” He answered, “Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
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Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello James,
In Luther’s nitpicky way of making it seem impossible for man to love God through obedience with all his heart, in order for Luther to pave over God’s teaching and instill his own Lutheran theology, no.
In our loving, forgiving, merciful God’s eyes who seeks mankind’s love through man’s obedience, with all His heart, absolutely yes!
M
Malachi4U
Guest
But for Grace:
A Bisexual King of England of course.
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