Protestants, if someone was to tell you to look at a Saraph Serpent, so that you will be healed and not die would that be Idolatry?

[ufamtobie]

Protestants, That someone is GOD.

(Numbers 21: 6-9) In punishment the Lord sent among the people saraph serpents, which bit the people so that many of them died. Then the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned in complaining against the Lord and you. Pray the Lord to take the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people, and the Lord said to Moses, "Make a saraph and mount it on a pole, and if anyone who has been bitten looks at it, he will RECOVER Moses, accordingly made a bronze serpent and mounted it on a pole, and whenever anyone who had been bitten by a serpent looked at the bronze serpent, he recovered.

Do you think God is contradicting himself regarding Idolatry? NO!

Regarding statues of Virgin Mary, or any Saint or even Jesus Our Crucified Savior on the Cross, etc… is that Idolatry? NO!

If looking upon a Saraph Serpent is not Idolatry in God’s eyes niether is any of the above mentioned.

Did these Jews worship this bronze Saraph Serpent mounted on a pole? NO!

No, the Jews did not Worship the Seraph Serpent but they Honored it, Just like us Catholics in every church there is mounted statues of the Blessed Mother, saints, Jesus on the Cross.WE DON’T WORSHIP THE STATUES OR PICTURES BUT WE HONOR IT as a remembrance of who they are.

The Catholic Church Worships the Blessed Trinity Father, Son and Holy Spirit!

What is Idolatry? A worshiping of a false god, on down to a computer set.

Ufamtobie

 

[JonNC]

Protestants, That someone is GOD.

(Numbers 21: 6-9) In punishment the Lord sent among the people saraph serpents, which bit the people so that many of them died. Then the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned in complaining against the Lord and you. Pray the Lord to take the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people, and the Lord said to Moses, "Make a saraph and mount it on a pole, and if anyone who has been bitten looks at it, he will RECOVER Moses, accordingly made a bronze serpent and mounted it on a pole, and whenever anyone who had been bitten by a serpent looked at the bronze serpent, he recovered.

Do you think God is contradicting himself regarding Idolatry? NO!

Regarding statues of Virgin Mary, or any Saint or even Jesus Our Crucified Savior on the Cross, etc… is that Idolatry? NO!

If looking upon a Saraph Serpent is not Idolatry in God’s eyes niether is any of the above mentioned.

Did these Jews worship this bronze Saraph Serpent mounted on a pole? NO!

No, the Jews did not Worship the Seraph Serpent but they Honored it, Just like us Catholics in every church there is mounted statues of the Blessed Mother, saints, Jesus on the Cross.WE DON’T WORSHIP THE STATUES OR PICTURES BUT WE HONOR IT as a remembrance of who they are.

The Catholic Church Worships the Blessed Trinity Father, Son and Holy Spirit!

What is Idolatry? A worshiping of a false god, on down to a computer set.

Ufamtobie

As a Lutheran, I agree. Well said.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

I agree with both what you quoted and with the final statements. But I disagree with your argument. Yes, God told Moses to have the serpent made and mounted on the pole and the people should look on it and be healed. However, the people did not honor it, they just looked on it in obedience to what God told Moses.

If I were a Protestant, the seraph serpent argument would not convince me of anything.

IMO it would be better to focus on the fact that the Jews were not to make an image because the unseen God could not be contained in or represented by a statue. An image would just be a temptation to pagan idolatry.

Then God the Son became man, the visible image of the invisible God.

Now we can make an image to represent Jesus (crucifix, Sacred Heart statue, etc.) or the saints. There is no temptation to believe that the image is the person. It’s only a reminder. We don’t even honor the statue itself, but the person it represents. Even on Good Friday when we have the ‘adoration of the cross’, we aren’t adoring or honoring the cross or crucifix but rather Jesus’ death for us which it represents.

 

[Crepusculum]

I agree with both what you quoted and with the final statements. But I disagree with your argument. Yes, God told Moses to have the serpent made and mounted on the pole and the people should look on it and be healed. However, the people did not honor it, they just looked on it in obedience to what God told Moses.

If I were a Protestant, the seraph serpent argument would not convince me of anything.

IMO it would be better to focus on the fact that the Jews were not to make an image because the unseen God could not be contained in or represented by a statue. An image would just be a temptation to pagan idolatry.

Then God the Son became man, the visible image of the invisible God.

Now we can make an image to represent Jesus (crucifix, Sacred Heart statue, etc.) or the saints. There is no temptation to believe that the image is the person. It’s only a reminder. We don’t even honor the statue itself, but the person it represents. Even on Good Friday when we have the ‘adoration of the cross’, we aren’t adoring or honoring the cross or crucifix but rather Jesus’ death for us which it represents.

Agreed. Also to add that when one looks at the photograph of a loved one who died, and a rush of feelings come up, are those feelings for the photograph, or for the one who is represented in it? This was the argument which most convinced me that the statues were OK, but then I came from a background of disbelief rather than a pre-conditioned protestant tradition, so it may be different from their perspective - I don’t know.

Hope that helps,

 

[Hisalone]

God commanded te Jews to look at the serpent. It was not liscence to make and to worsip other statues. God was specific te Jews didnt start making all kinds of statues they knew there was no liscence for that. Statues and pictures for prayer do not come from the Jewish culture they come from te pagan culture. Why have you picked up things from the pagan culture?

Protestants, That someone is GOD.

(Numbers 21: 6-9) In punishment the Lord sent among the people saraph serpents, which bit the people so that many of them died. Then the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned in complaining against the Lord and you. Pray the Lord to take the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people, and the Lord said to Moses, "Make a saraph and mount it on a pole, and if anyone who has been bitten looks at it, he will RECOVER Moses, accordingly made a bronze serpent and mounted it on a pole, and whenever anyone who had been bitten by a serpent looked at the bronze serpent, he recovered.

Do you think God is contradicting himself regarding Idolatry? NO!

Regarding statues of Virgin Mary, or any Saint or even Jesus Our Crucified Savior on the Cross, etc… is that Idolatry? NO!

If looking upon a Saraph Serpent is not Idolatry in God’s eyes niether is any of the above mentioned.

Did these Jews worship this bronze Saraph Serpent mounted on a pole? NO!

No, the Jews did not Worship the Seraph Serpent but they Honored it, Just like us Catholics in every church there is mounted statues of the Blessed Mother, saints, Jesus on the Cross.WE DON’T WORSHIP THE STATUES OR PICTURES BUT WE HONOR IT as a remembrance of who they are.

The Catholic Church Worships the Blessed Trinity Father, Son and Holy Spirit!

What is Idolatry? A worshiping of a false god, on down to a computer set.

Ufamtobie

 

[Gamera]

God commanded te Jews to look at the serpent. It was not liscence to make and to worsip other statues. God was specific te Jews didnt start making all kinds of statues they knew there was no liscence for that.

That doesn’t answer the question. The question is, was that idolatry? It’s a yes or no question.

Statues and pictures for prayer do not come from the Jewish culture they come from te pagan culture. Why have you picked up things from the pagan culture?

“Picking up things from pagan culture” would include using indoor plumbing (an invention of the pagan Roman Empire). Does your church use indoor plumbing? Why have you allowed yourselves to “pick up something from pagan culture?”

 

[wisdomseeker]

What would have been of us if Jesus had not given us the Church.

Luke 13
“Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able.”

 

[Hisalone]

That doesn’t answer the question. The question is, was that idolatry? It’s a yes or no question.

**
NO GOD COMMANDED IT!**

“Picking up things from pagan culture” would include using indoor plumbing (an invention of the pagan Roman Empire). Does your church use indoor plumbing? Why have you allowed yourselves to “pick up something from pagan culture?”

Even ir you may consider using the toilet a religious experience it is not something we use in the practice of our religion.
If you cant see the difference what can I say.

 

[Hisalone]

What would have been of us if Jesus had not given us the Church.

Luke 13
“Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able.”

LOL but Im part of Christs Church.

 

[wisdomseeker]

LOL but Im part of Christs Church.

I am interested to know when you church started? Is it the church that the Apostles instituted 2000 years ago?

Luke 13
"Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able."

 

[Gamera]

Even ir you may consider using the toilet a religious experience it is not something we use in the practice of our religion.
If you cant see the difference what can I say.

Obviously it is something you use in the practice of your religion, otherwise it wouldn’t be in the church building. A more accurate statement of your objection would be that you do not share the intent of the pagans who invented indoor plumbing. Which, of course, is exactly my point. The fact that some (not all) pagans used images in worship means nothing – zero – because Catholics do not share the same intent as pagans. We do not worship images. We worship God alone. And if YOU can’t see the difference, what can I say?