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sandusky
Guest
If you don’t privately interpret scripture, then how are sure that the church is faithful, and moral?
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Ginger2
Guest
Awe.
I knew it was too good to be true…However, You didn’t reference the post #, NOR did you place the statement in quotation marks, NOR did you mention byoby or anyone else to suggest you were quoting someone.
But, you blame me for your carelessness?
It would be more Christian to say "Oops, forgot the quotation marks. Instead you try (again) to pick a fight.“SHAME ON YOU!”
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mgrfin
Guest
Sandusky:
How do I know the Church is faithful and moral?
Well, you as a Protestant say that Sola Scriptura is all we need. Yet, quotes from Scriptures on most issues on which we vary, you deny. I wonder where the Sola Scriptura goes unless it is your meaning only.
Let’s read 1 Timothy 3:15: “…the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwalk of truth”.
The Church is the foundation of truth; it is infallible, it is protected by the Holy Spirit so that it can be the Guardian and Preserver of apostolic tradition and truth and doctrine.
Now, you can sit there and tell me that your church, founded 100 years ago, or maybe even 500 years ago by some guy with a peeve against the Church could give you an infallible foundation of the truth, a guardian and preserver of apostolic tradition and truth and doctrine.
If you had that someone, he was quickly swallowed up by hundreds more claiming the same thing.
You have no place to run, to hide from the weakness and error of your foundation.
My favorite definition of Church is: Acts 2: 42. “And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of the bread and the prayers”.
What do you think that means? It can’t be for you the Celebration of the Eucharist, cause you don’t believe in the Eucharist (as we believe in it), and the “prayers”.
peace
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sandusky
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Pax
Guest
Ginger,
While I consider you and byoby brothers and sisters in Christ, I cannot say that you are in complete communion with His body which is the Church.
I must tell you, but of course in charity, that the passages you quoted do not establish your point. The context reveals what Jesus is really talking about. Let’s take it from the top and start with:
Mark 3:14-15 which says:
And he appointed twelve, to be with him, and to be sent out to preach and have authority to cast out demons:
Now on to Mark 6:11-13 which says,
“And if any place will not receive you and they refuse to hear you, when you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet for a testimony against them.” So they went out and preached that men should repent. And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many that were sick and healed them."
Now on to Mark 9:33-38 which says:
“And they came to Caperna-um; and when he was in the house he asked them, ‘What were you discussing on the way?’ But they were silent; for on the way they had discussed with one another who was the greatest. And he sat down and called the twelve; and he said to them, ‘If any one would be first, he must be last of all and servant of all.’ And he took a child, and put him in the midst of them; and taking him in his arms, he said to them, ‘Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me; and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me.’”
Then comes your chosen passage of Mark 9:38-40 which says,
“John said to him, ‘Teacher, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he was not following us.’ But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him; for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon after to speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is for us.”
It is quite clear that Jesus gave the apostles position and authority in preaching, healing, and casting out demons. Likewise, they exercised this authority. Then they argued among themselves as to who was the greatest. Even after Jesus corrected them for this, John pipes up with another superiority of position and authority issue regarding someone that was casting out demons in Jesus name even though he wasn’t following them. This is the reason Jesus dismisses John’s point. The apostles are not to view themselves and their special position as apostles and their authority with pride. They are not to lord it over others as they had done.
If Jesus meant his statement the way you have presented it then He would never have gone on in Luke 11:23 to say that, “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. “
Your choice of Matthew 22:10 is merely a statement concerning the position of the Jews versus the gentiles. Jesus and the apostles had gone out through all of Judea and the Jews frequently sought their destruction. The Jews were to be invited first because they are the chosen people. Their rejection is followed by the sending of the apostles "into the highways, and invite to the marriage feast as many as you find.’ That is really all the parable is saying. It is a real stretch to make this mean what you are attempting to get across.
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Pax
Guest
Greetings Sandusky…I hope that all is well in SoCal and that you have done your part to reduce the air pollution and general traffic congestion. Not terribly long ago, I happened to go down to Morongo Valley where my brother lives and took the 210 from LA to San Bernardino. It was absolutely gorgeous. The air was crystal clear with blue sky and specular sunlight. I thought of you and said a prayer on your behalf. So much for the travel and reflection.
As far as your question is concerned, I would simply answer it this way:
I am sure that the Church is correct and faithful in its teachings on matters of faith and morals because of the promises of Jesus.
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Pax
Guest
Well, I’m glad to see that you have a good sense of humor. Somehow, we all knew that the agreement was at best superficial. LOLAwe.
…
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mgrfin
Guest
Am I clear on what you are asking?
I don’t want to waste my pearls if they are not received.
Do I privately interpret scripture?
The answer to that question is “no”. I know you are disappointed. I know you felt you had me in a corner, so if I had to say ‘yes’, well then, you would say that you did also, and we were even, as it were.
I’m not that dumb. Nor am I that much of a disbeliever in my Church.
When I read scripture, I know what the Catholic Church teaches in Scripture and Tradition. My reading of Scripture and its meaning is in according with what the Church teaches, which is infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit.
Luther believed in Sola Scriptura and in private interpretation, but the interpretation had to be the same as his. Despots are despotic even when it comes to private interpretation of Scripture.
Do you have a personal interpretation of Scripture that is not in accord with what your ‘church teaches’?
peace
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Ginger2
Guest
Pax, Can you explain what you are trying to suggest about Mark 9:38-40?
Are you saying that God works miracles thru the unsaved, but that once an unsaved person performs a godly miracle they can’t blaspheme God for a period of time?
Are you saying that God works miracles thru the unsaved, but that once an unsaved person performs a godly miracle they can’t blaspheme God for a period of time?
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Pax
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I am not saying that at all. All I am pointing out is that the use of this passage as a proof text for some form of diversity or disunity of believers is inappropriate. That is not the intent and purpose of the passage.
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Ginger2
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That is not what I meant, either.
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Pax
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Okay, somehow we are not on the same page. Your original post was a response to mgrfin and seemed to me to be going in the direction I suggested.
Since that is not your intent, I will take responsibility for misunderstanding.
Can you clarify?
Since that is not your intent, I will take responsibility for misunderstanding.
Can you clarify?
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Ginger2
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What was the Post # ?
Maybe I was unclear. I would never intentionally suggest some form of diversity or disunity of believers is OK. The basic Christian doctrine about Christ Jesus and our salvation should be uniform. (ie the Apostles Creed) We all believe this and those who don’t, by definition, are not Christians.
Maybe I was unclear. I would never intentionally suggest some form of diversity or disunity of believers is OK. The basic Christian doctrine about Christ Jesus and our salvation should be uniform. (ie the Apostles Creed) We all believe this and those who don’t, by definition, are not Christians.
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Ginger2
Guest
Are you talking about post #194?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrfin View Post
“Catholicism would say that you are not a member of the Mystical Body of Christ. That is reserved for members of the Catholic Church. The true Church is the Catholic Church.”
I said, “Mar 9:38-40” and “Mat 22:10” So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests."
Is this what you are referring to?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrfin View Post
“Catholicism would say that you are not a member of the Mystical Body of Christ. That is reserved for members of the Catholic Church. The true Church is the Catholic Church.”
I said, “Mar 9:38-40” and “Mat 22:10” So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests."
Is this what you are referring to?
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mgrfin
Guest
Of course you do, Ginger. There is only one Church, the Catholic Church, founded by Jesus Christ, and guided by his Holy Spirit.
From what you told us, you don’t belong to this Church, and you belong to some Protestant church, so you must, by necessity, 'suggest some form of diversity".
peace
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mgrfin
Guest
So the LCD of the teachings of Jesus Christ is the Apostles Creed?
Why not the Nicene Creed? It is an older, more authentic body of beliefs. It is the result of a General Council of the Church. Is it that sentence that excludes you, a problem?
"Credo…in unam, sanctam, catholicam, apostolicam Ecclesiam…
peace
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Ginger2
Guest
mgrfin,
The Apostle’s Creed is the one that I remember saying as a child in the Catholic Church I grew up in.
But once again you totally missed the point.
I do not care to converse with you mgrfin. Please do me just one favor and do not respond to my posts which are directed toward other people and I will not respond to yours.
I do not wish to have anything more to do with you until Jesus’ return, at which time we will be made perfect and will be happy to see each other.
May God humble you with a gentle hand.
The Apostle’s Creed is the one that I remember saying as a child in the Catholic Church I grew up in.
But once again you totally missed the point.
I do not care to converse with you mgrfin. Please do me just one favor and do not respond to my posts which are directed toward other people and I will not respond to yours.
I do not wish to have anything more to do with you until Jesus’ return, at which time we will be made perfect and will be happy to see each other.
May God humble you with a gentle hand.
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Pax
Guest
Yes, that is the post.
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Ginger2
Guest
Yes, I see how that could be misconstrued.
I was responding to mgrfin who charges that being part of the body of Christ is reserved for members of the RC.
Those who would condemn some people to hell because simply they are not members of the RC (and there are some Catholics who believe that) are in for a surprise come judgment day.
Just so we are clear, I am not a universalist. Nor do I think all roads lead to Christ. Nor do I believe that it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as you are sincere.
It matters!
This was probably my fault for not choosing a better verse. Sorry.
I was responding to mgrfin who charges that being part of the body of Christ is reserved for members of the RC.
Those who would condemn some people to hell because simply they are not members of the RC (and there are some Catholics who believe that) are in for a surprise come judgment day.
Just so we are clear, I am not a universalist. Nor do I think all roads lead to Christ. Nor do I believe that it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as you are sincere.
It matters!
This was probably my fault for not choosing a better verse. Sorry.
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Pax
Guest
No problem…I get it. God bless.
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