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MariaG
Guest
Respectfully, where is this belief of yours that we no longer pray for others in heaven found in scripture?
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look3467
Guest
By the same token, where in scripture does it say we should ask someone in heaven other that Christ to help us?
Once we are gone from here, we are with the Lord. Why? Because Jesus bought all of us lock, stock and barrel.
He purchased the tree of knowledge with His own blood, thus the tree of knowledge becomes His and He renders it none effective.
Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
Jesus was trodden down with it, so the overflowing scourge has passed.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
The tree of life has been made available to us where as before, was kept from us until Jesus came.
Peace>>>AJ
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look3467
Guest
Pray one for another is in scripture, but not one that is already in heaven.
Peace>>>AJ
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mgrfin
Guest
Yes, we are looking for an answer to prayer calling on the intercession of Mary. Are you suggesting that we worship Mary?
If you find the prayer offensive, then don’t use it.
Do you have any non-Catholic prayers that are better?
peace
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mgrfin
Guest
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MariaG
Guest
Yes, once we are gone, we are present with the Lord, so how does that mean that we should no longer pray for those who are not present with the Lord?
There is scripture that shows us that people are aware and deeply concerned about those still on earth. Scripture that tells us even death cannot separate us from Christ. Scripture that says we are one body. Scripture that tells us we should build each other up. Scripture that tells us that those who have died in Christ are not dead but alive. And scripture telling us that the “cloud of witnesses” are presenting our prayers to God in heaven. But I don’t read anywhere where it tells us that when we die, we are no longer part of the body of Christ and are not supposed to pray for the body of Christ anymore.
1Cor 12:12-27 - if I suffer, all suffer; if I am honored, all rejoice
Rom 12:5 - we are one body in Christ, individual parts of one another
Eph 4:4 - one body, one Spirit, called to one hope
Col 3:15 - you were called in one body
Rom 8:35-39 - death cannot separate us from Christ
Rom 12:10 - love one another with mutual affection
1Thess 5:11 - encourage, build up one another
Gal 6:2 - bear one another’s burdens
Gal 6:10 - let us do good to all, especially those in family of faith
Lk 9:31 - Elijah & Moses aware of earthly events
Rev 6:9-11 - martyrs under altar want earthly vindication
Heb 12:1 - we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses
Lk 16:19-30 - departed rich man intercedes for brothers
Rev 20:4 - saw the souls of those who had been beheaded
Wis 3:1-6 - the souls of the just are in the hand of God
2Macc 15:7-16 - the departed Onias & Jeremiah pray for the Jews
Jas 5:16 prayers of righteous man
1 Cor. 13:12 - I shall understand fully
1 John 4: 20-21 - whoever loves God must love his brother
1 Cor 12:21 - parts of Christ’s Body cannot say to other parts, “I do not need you”.
God Bless,
Maria
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look3467
Guest
Is a man’s soul to be judged by me?
Everyone is accountable for their own behavior, but their souls belong to Jesus.
If one follows these two commandments to the best of his ability, then God will bless him and he need not worry about any trespasses.
*Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
The first set of 5 commandments pertain to the heavenly
The second set pertain to the earthly.
So, if one does the two afore mentioned, you will have complied with all 10.
Peace>>>AJ
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look3467
Guest
Pray for the one’s yet here and not gone, because afterwards, there is no need.
The ones here maybe going through a personal hell and need our prayers to help deliver them.
Prayer is not always only a voice but an action as well.
I will not say that they may not be concerned about people here on earth, all I can say with great assurance is that praying to Jesus is praying to the Father, and He alone has the power to make any changes to our requests.
I mean God has demonstrated love unconditionally towards us, why then would we have to fear in approaching Him directly instead of asking someone in heaven to intercede for us?
The story of the rich man is one describing that while we are here we should make our minds up, because after this life there is no help.
The answer was: Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
“Let them hear them”. Personal responsibility.
Peace>>>AJ
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mgrfin
Guest
said:
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look3467
Guest
Not objecting. Pray to whomever you wish. I am stating that there is but one mediator between God and man, and that High Priest is Jesus.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
I have no argument with you, just perhaps you might want to see it from a different perspective.
Peace>>>AJ
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mgrfin
Guest
And what perspective is that? I’m a simply guy, and I feel a dodge going on here. If you have no objection, what are you talking about?
maranatha
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byoby
Guest
Are we reading the same prayer?
How can I resolve your answer with this prayer?
I am respectfully asking for your thoughts
Thanks
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Hilde89
Guest
Good morning 
I pray directly to God, no saints or angels
I pray directly to God, no saints or angels
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MariaG
Guest
The issue of whether or not one needs prayers after death is actually a different issue.
This thread is whether or not those who are now in heaven, still pray for US here on earth.
You seem to be using the word pray to equal worship of God. While I certainly understand this, you need to understand that this has not always been the case throughout the history of Christianiyt.
Again, let me say the Catholic use and definition of the word pray is the older definition of TO ASK. This can be proven historically and can still be seen in some uses in the justice system, “My client prays to the court…”. To pray is simply to ask. You can ask anyone to pray for you. This in no way means a person is somehow trying to do a end run around or do not believe they can go straight to God with their prayers.
This is about whether or not the “communion of Saints” means that through the grace of God, He allows those who are alive with Him in heaven to hear us and ask them to ADD their prayers to ours to GOD alone.
God bless,
Maria
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MariaG
Guest
How is asking someone to pray for you denying the sole mediatorship of Christ?
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MariaG
Guest
Yes, we are. Again, you are starting with the mistaken assumption that since we are using the same words, they mean the same thing, and have always meant the same thing that you define them as today.
The word “pray” has a very narrow meaning today for most Protestants. It is something that one only does to God alone. It is equal to worship.
This has not always been the case. One used to “pray to/ask” one’s husband for things. One could “pray to/beseech” a judge. One could “pray to/ask” a friend for things. One could ALSO “pray to/ ask” God for things.
When a Catholic “prays to” or in today’s language, asks someone to pray for them, they are not worshipping or “praying to” someone because they think they have any ability to answer the prayer separate from God. God alone answers the prayer.
You ask people to pray for you all the time don’t you? This is what Catholic Christians are doing. Asking Saints to pray for us.
God Bless,
Maria
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MariaG
Guest
MorningGood morning
I pray directly to God, no saints or angels
Really? So why don’t you ask anyone else to pray for you as scripture is always doing?
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MariaG
Guest
Line by line shall we?
First off, you understand, even if you do not agree that Catholic Christians believe that when Christ died on the Cross, He gave His mother to us all, and she is our mother too now? And that we believe she was ever virgin, yes?
Remember, O most loving Virgin Mary, - no objections here right? She at the very least, was loving and we can both agree that at least until the birth of Christ, she was a virgin, correct?
that never was it known that anyone
who fled to your protection,
implored your help, - wouldn’t you do all these things with your mother? seek your mother’s protection and help? Catholic christians surely don’t have a different relationship with their mother’s than non-Catholics do we? And remember, we believe she is our mother too, that Christ gave her to us, too.
or sought your intercession was left unaided - Have you never sought the prayers, of another? Intercessory prayer, I actually took a class on it in an Assembly of God Church because they believed that people can be prayer warriors and use pray for others and God will listen. Don’t you believe that the prayers of the righteous man availeth much? Don’t you pray for others? Don’t you ask others to pray for you? This would be intercessory prayer, or asking someone for their “intercession”.
Inspired with this confidence, we turn to you,
O Virgin of virgins, our Mother. - What confidence do we have? The confidence that most have in their mother.
To you we come, before you we stand,
sinful and sorrowful. - Most when they come to ask for their mothers help are humbled and well aware of their failings. Again, are Catholic Christian relationships with their mothers that different
O Mother of the Word Incarnate - Do you not believe she was the earthly mother, not creater, but the mother who suckled our Lord at her breast? That she was given the responsibility to raise the Word who became man, born as a child?
do not despise our petitions, And what are we “petitioning” her to do? Pray for us to her Son, Our Lord.
but in your mercy hear us In a mother’s mercy, please hear us.
and answer us. And here is where I think you again, read into your prejudice about what you THINK we believe. Are we asking Mary to answer us? Yes. But do we know who the answer ultimately comes from? Yes. Scripture does the same thing. When the twelve were sent out, scripture tells us “they” healed people. Don’t we both know that God is the one whom the power comes from? But as scripture says,
Mark 6:12-13
12] So they went out and preached that men should repent.
13] And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many that were sick and healed them.
Who healed them? They. Who are they? The twelve. While it says the twelve (in verse 7), we do not make the mistake that in and of themselves the twelve did any healing, so why do you make the mistake that Mary in and of herself does the answering, or that we think she does? Because you make assumptions about Catholic Christians that just are not true, but the most successful lie of Satan since the Garden of Eden.
Amen. I believe. That Mary will pray for me and that God will answer my prayer.
God Bless,
Maria
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look3467
Guest
OK, you are saying you can pray to Saints in heaven to intercede for you is that correct?
Which if that is your belief, that is OK.
The other view is that if we have a mediator only as our only High priest by which all prayers are channeled through via the Holy Spirit, then Jesus is that one.
People in this world have come and gone, done what they did and now in glory with the Lord.
If one has something to ask of God, ask directly. If one seeks help in prayer, ask a neighbor as that is a scriptural procedure as well.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Joh 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
Peace>>>AJ
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MariaG
Guest
But that is what we are doing, asking part of the living body of Christ.
Unless you think that asking your neighbor is denying the sole mediatorship of Christ, you need to stop using that argument, for even though you don’t agree, we see no difference, and much scriptural support, for there being no difference between asking a Christian neighbor for prayer or asking a Saint in heaven for prayer.
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