Protestants:If you don't pray to Saints, do you pray to Angels?

[PatrickRabe]

1 Praise ye the Lord from the heavens: praise ye him in the high places. 2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts. Psalm 148:1-2

11 And they answered the angel of the Lord, that stood among the myrtle trees, and said: We have walked through the earth, and behold all the earth is inhabited, and is at rest. 12 And the angel of the Lord answered, and said: O Lord of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem, and on the cities of Juda, with which thou hast been angry? this is now the seventieth year. 13 And the Lord answered the angel, that spoke in me, good words, comfortable words. 14 And the angel that spoke in me, said to me: Cry thou, saying: Thus saith the Lord of hosts: I am zealous for Jerusalem, and Sion with a great zeal. 15 And I am angry with a great anger with the wealthy nations: for I was angry a little, but they helped forward the evil. Zacharias 1:11-15

 

[PatrickRabe]

1 Praise ye the Lord from the heavens: praise ye him in the high places. 2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts. Psalm 148:1-2

11 And they answered the angel of the Lord, that stood among the myrtle trees, and said: We have walked through the earth, and behold all the earth is inhabited, and is at rest. 12 And the angel of the Lord answered, and said: O Lord of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem, and on the cities of Juda, with which thou hast been angry? this is now the seventieth year. 13 And the Lord answered the angel, that spoke in me, good words, comfortable words. 14 And the angel that spoke in me, said to me: Cry thou, saying: Thus saith the Lord of hosts: I am zealous for Jerusalem, and Sion with a great zeal. 15 And I am angry with a great anger with the wealthy nations: for I was angry a little, but they helped forward the evil. Zacharias 1:11-15

Sorry, may be I am wrong even though I am not sure that the exhoration said in Pslam 148:1,2 is an intercession to angels. We just have to read the verses following this that the psalmist is also exhorting the moon and the stars and the sun to praise the Lord. We cannot take a verse from its context to explain what we want to affirm. I am not sure that we can use this verse to explain that we can ask intercession to the angels.
I am quite sure that it is especially a matter of faith. If we beleive that they can hear us and may pray for us, we can ask them then to pray for us.
So is for the saints and all those who are in heaven as we ask our fellow brothers and sisters on earth.
But my concern is that I am still wondering if those in heaven can hear us or if we are allowed to speak with them.

Bye

 

[look3467]

But my concern is that I am still wondering if those in heaven can hear us or if we are allowed to speak with them. >>>PatrickRabe

Why wonder, why even doubt when the bible clearly states we can go directly to the Father and know for sure He hears us?

Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

The whole theme of the bible centers on Christ, and in Him the whole of humanity finds salvation.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[East_and_West]

I pray the way Jesus taught us to pray, to the Father through Christ. When he was asked how we should pray, this was the example that was given. I am personally not comfortable going beyond this model but am not condeming those who do. He also said to not babbel on & on because he knows what we are going to pray before we do. I can not find any biblical examples of anyone praying to “Saints” or angels. If you know where please show me.

What about praying to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? Do you do that?

 

[look3467]

What about praying to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? Do you do that?

Here is a scripture that might help: Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[mgrfin]

What about praying to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? Do you do that?

Why do we have to have biblical examples? If it were in the Bible would you automatically do it?

Unless it is in the Bible you won’t accept it? I know of lots of things in the Bible you won’t accept: The Eucharist, the Sacrament of Penance, the commission of Peter to lead the Church. Lots of things in the Bible that you quibble about, or will not accept outright.

And the Bible is only one source of Revelation. Tradition is the other. Both are of great importance. We have been over this many times. The Bible did not complete the Revelation from God.

Tradition tells us, from the first century of prayers to the saints, and prayers in favor the dead. The Church has a Tradition of Communion of Saints, those in heaven, those on earth praying to God, the needs of the Church, and her faithful.

We pray to the Saints because that is part of the Tradition of the Church.

peace

 

[East_and_West]

Here is a scripture that might help: Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Peace>>>AJ

Doesn’t answer my question at all. Do you pray to Jesus and the Holy spirit or only the Father? If you don’t I suspect then Sola Scriptura is completely out of control.

 

[East_and_West]

Why do we have to have biblical examples? If it were in the Bible would you automatically do it?

Unless it is in the Bible you won’t accept it? I know of lots of things in the Bible you won’t accept: The Eucharist, the Sacrament of Penance, the commission of Peter to lead the Church. Lots of things in the Bible that you quibble about, or will not accept outright.

And the Bible is only one source of Revelation. Tradition is the other. Both are of great importance. We have been over this many times. The Bible did not complete the Revelation from God.

Tradition tells us, from the first century of prayers to the saints, and prayers in favor the dead. The Church has a Tradition of Communion of Saints, those in heaven, those on earth praying to God, the needs of the Church, and her faithful.

We pray to the Saints because that is part of the Tradition of the Church.

peace

I am Catholic. I believe all of what you said up there. My question was directed to Protestants who say that they only pray “To the Father through Christ.”

 

[byoby]

What about praying to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? Do you do that?

I believe in One God who has revealed Himself in Scripture in 3 persons who are fully God and eternally distinct. This can be shown in the Scriptures when considered as a whole as I do not know if there is one single verse that makes the case on its own. I do not understand or comprehend this truth but I also cannot understand or comprehend the universe which is merely something created by God. If I can not understand or comprehend the creation then I do not know how I could even begin to comprehend the Creator.

Short Answer:
Yes

 

[Frost]

In another thread, I have heard Protestants deny that Saints in heaven are aware of us, and that they are not like angels in this regard.

So in light of Scripture telling us about the angels Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael, do you as a Protestant ever pray to these angels to intercede for you with the gifts they have from God??

As a Lutheran Protestant I don’t pray or call upon either saints or angels. Angels are able to contact us on behalf of God, but I don’t believe that I should call upon them.

On the other hand, we are allowed to pray to God and beg him to send his angels for our protection, for example. And we may pray to God and ask Him to communicate with the saints on our behalf.

 

[byoby]

Why do we have to have biblical examples? If it were in the Bible would you automatically do it?

Unless it is in the Bible you won’t accept it? I know of lots of things in the Bible you won’t accept: The Eucharist, the Sacrament of Penance, the commission of Peter to lead the Church. Lots of things in the Bible that you quibble about, or will not accept outright.

And the Bible is only one source of Revelation. Tradition is the other. Both are of great importance. We have been over this many times. The Bible did not complete the Revelation from God.

Tradition tells us, from the first century of prayers to the saints, and prayers in favor the dead. The Church has a Tradition of Communion of Saints, those in heaven, those on earth praying to God, the needs of the Church, and her faithful.

We pray to the Saints because that is part of the Tradition of the Church.

peace

So you would admit that praying to Saints and Angels is extra-biblical?

 

[mgrfin]

So you would admit that praying to Saints and Angels is extra-biblical?

No, I didn’t say that.

peace

 

[look3467]

Doesn’t answer my question at all. Do you pray to Jesus and the Holy spirit or only the Father? If you don’t I suspect then Sola Scriptura is completely out of control.

I know who Jesus is, He is God. My instructions were to pray to the Father in Jesus name, which simply means, that Jesus is the vehicle by which salvation came to me.
Being my salvation is God my salvation.
If I pray to Jesus, I pray to the Father via the Holy Spirit of God, .

Now, that pretty simple and takes nothing but faith to accomplish.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[believers]

No, I only pray to the Father. Jesus said I could in His name. Now, I already know that the creator hears my prayers… So why would I pray to anyone else? Time spent praying to someone else is time not spent praying to the Father.

 

[mgrfin]

No, I only pray to the Father. Jesus said I could in His name. Now, I already know that the creator hears my prayers… So why would I pray to anyone else? Time spent praying to someone else is time not spent praying to the Father.

Jesus is the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, and you don’t pray to him? He is, after all, God.

The Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity, and you don’t pray to him? He is, after all, God

What were the Apostles and disciples doing during those 9 days in the Upper Room?

I always thought they were praying to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, three Persons in One God.

When you pray, “O God”, which Person are you praying to?

Do you believe in the Blessed Trinity? This is all new to me.

peace

“Veni, Creator, Spiritus”
Come, Holy Ghost
Creator blest
and in our hearts,
take up thy rest.

 

[believers]

Jesus is the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, and you don’t pray to him? He is, after all, God.

The Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity, and you don’t pray to him? He is, after all, God

What were the Apostles and disciples doing during those 9 days in the Upper Room?

I always thought they were praying to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, three Persons in One God.

When you pray, “O God”, which Person are you praying to?

Do you believe in the Blessed Trinity? This is all new to me.

peace

“Veni, Creator, Spiritus”
Come, Holy Ghost
Creator blest
and in our hearts,
take up thy rest.

Jhn 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give [it] you.

Jhn 16:24
Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

 

[mgrfin]

Jhn 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give [it] you.

Jhn 16:24
Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

Didn’t answer my questions.

John 14: 14
"If you ask me anything in my name, that I will do, in order that the Father may be glorified in the Son, If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

And you ignore the infallible unwritten word of Tradition, where prayers were offered to Jesus, and to the Holy Spirit and to the Saints.

You see, we can quote Scripture as well as you, and have Tradition as well to call on.

peace
"

peace

 

[believers]

Didn’t answer my questions.

John 14: 14
"If you ask me anything in my name, that I will do, in order that the Father may be glorified in the Son, If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

And you ignore the infallible unwritten word of Tradition, where prayers were offered to Jesus, and to the Holy Spirit and to the Saints.

You see, we can quote Scripture as well as you, and have Tradition as well to call on.

peace
"

peace

OK… please enlighten me. Where in the Bible did people pray to Jesus? Did Jesus pray to himself in John 14:16?

Jhn 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Jhn 14:13
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Jhn 14:14
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it].

Jhn 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Jhn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

 

[mgrfin]

OK… please enlighten me. Where in the Bible did people pray to Jesus? Did Jesus pray to himself in John 14:16?

Jhn 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Jhn 14:13
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Jhn 14:14
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it].

Jhn 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Jhn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

We pray to the Father all the time. If you read the Prayers of the Mass you will see that most of those prayers are addressed to the Father. And always end with some form of “And through your Son, our Lord Jesus Christ…”

If you want to examine the Tradition of the Eastern Church, you might look up “Jesus Prayer”. It is, also, the kind of prayer we Roman Catholics say all the time. (At least taught to us when I was growing up).

You still did not anwer my questions, however.

I think the meaning of John 14 is quiet evident. I mean you quote scripture to us; it doesn’t have any meaning when we quote it to you?

peace

 

[believers]

We pray to the Father all the time. If you read the Prayers of the Mass you will see that most of those prayers are addressed to the Father. And always end with some form of “And through your Son, our Lord Jesus Christ…”

You still did not anwer my questions, however.

peace

peace

Jesus is the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, and you don’t pray to him? He is, after all, God.

Jesus said to pray directly to the Father.

The Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity, and you don’t pray to him? He is, after all, God

Jesus said to pray directly to the Father.

What were the Apostles and disciples doing during those 9 days in the Upper Room?

Praying to the Father in Jesus name.

I always thought they were praying to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, three Persons in One God.

That’s not what Jesus said to do. Jesus said to pray directly to the Father in His name.

When you pray, “O God”, which Person are you praying to?

My prayers always start with a variation of… Dear Heavenly Father…, Dear Father God…, Oh Heavenly Father…

And I almost always end my prayers with a variation of… In Jesus name I pray, In Jesus name,