Protestants in South America?

[HabemusFrancis]

Dear fellow Catholics.

You must surely have heard the most unfortunate news from Latin America. That many in those countries are leaving the Church and joining other “churches” of the pentecostal/ Baptist variety.

I wonder how could this be? Could it be that the lower classes feel marginalized/ ignored by the Catholic leadership? Could it be that they feel angry that in the past some bishops/ cardinals were content to let various dictators do what they wanted?

Or maybe ( in my opinion most likely) many Latin Americans are poorly catechized, and practice a form of superstitious, syncretic, poorly understood “Catholocism” filled with processions of saints and Virgin marys, but little understanding of faith besides that?

Pentecostals/ Baptists offer a fairly simple message: “Sign on dotted line to accept Jesus as lord and savior. Plus maybe if you accept him, you will get a fancy house or a flashy new car!”

This is one of the reasons why I think it is excellent Bergoglio was elected Pope. He is in a unique position to re-evangelize his fellow Latin Americans.

Tell me what you think, friends in Christ!

 

[chero23]

I think 1 of the reasons is that theirs only 1 priest for every 5 to 8 small to towns. So theirs really no one to help talk to the faithful. Some of them might feel ignored, not taken into consideration and feel betrayed.

Then you have pastor so and so who promises you that your going to be saved if you confess Jesus Christ. The ironic thing is, that god is the only 1 who knows who is going to heaven or hell. Not evangelical pastors, I hope ppl realize that those men are leading them away from the truth.

 

[PaleoConCatlick]

Better than them converting to atheism and joining the Communist Party.

 

[Pilgrim_333]

I used to spend a lot of time with a Venezuelan family that moved to my area. They were Evangelical/Fundamentalists (so was I, at the time). When I first met them I ignorantly assumed that they were Catholic Christians but apparently there is a very aggressive missionary/evangelizing movement in many S.A. countries. When I spoke to the father of the family about his conversion from Catholicism to Fundamentalism, he spoke about being saved from the “cult of tradition” and other such titles for the R.C. Church; he was vehemently anti-Catholic, so much so that I, a self-professed anti-Catholic, found myself begrudgingly defending the Catholic faith, as his claims were wildly exaggerated and very offensive. At the time they were actively converting the Mexicans in the neighborhood who were mostly Catholic but ripe for the picking.
I often lament losing contact with them now that I have entered the Church, as I feel that I would be able to infuse some truth into the lies into which they had been indoctrinated. We, as Catholics, must take the New Evangelization seriously and work tirelessly. It is no longer safe to assume that traditionally Catholic communities will always remain so. It’s true that they love Jesus but their anti-Catholicism is born in Hell. How can the body of Christ loathe the body of Christ? A house divided against itself cannot stand. This offensive against The Church is affront to all of Christianity.

 

[just_came_back]

I used to spend a lot of time with a Venezuelan family that moved to my area. They were Evangelical/Fundamentalists (so was I, at the time). When I first met them I ignorantly assumed that they were Catholic Christians but apparently there is a very aggressive missionary/evangelizing movement in many S.A. countries. When I spoke to the father of the family about his conversion from Catholicism to Fundamentalism, he spoke about being saved from the “cult of tradition” and other such titles for the R.C. Church; he was vehemently anti-Catholic, so much so that I, a self-professed anti-Catholic, found myself begrudgingly defending the Catholic faith, as his claims were wildly exaggerated and very offensive. At the time they were actively converting the Mexicans in the neighborhood who were mostly Catholic but ripe for the picking.
I often lament losing contact with them now that I have entered the Church, as I feel that I would be able to infuse some truth into the lies into which they had been indoctrinated. We, as Catholics, must take the New Evangelization seriously and work tirelessly. It is no longer safe to assume that traditionally Catholic communities will always remain so. It’s true that they love Jesus but their anti-Catholicism is born in Hell. How can the body of Christ loathe the body of Christ? A house divided against itself cannot stand. This offensive against The Church is affront to all of Christianity.

Every leader of every protestant movement is going to have to give one HECK of an account before the Throne of Christ someday. We all will, to be sure, but…wow. It is indeed sad beyond sad. I got news for the protestants, you will NEVER usurp what is rightfully ordained by God himself. Sin of pride is what started the reformation to begin with and, unfortunately, that pride has manifested itself a million times over.

 

[SaintRita]

I feel that I would be able to infuse some truth into the lies into which they had been indoctrinated. We, as Catholics, must take the New Evangelization seriously and work tirelessly. It is no longer safe to assume that traditionally Catholic communities will always remain so. It’s true that they love Jesus but their anti-Catholicism is born in Hell. How can the body of Christ loathe the body of Christ? A house divided against itself cannot stand. This offensive against The Church is affront to all of Christianity.

This.

Many of the Protestants I have encountered (I was in a Baptist church for 5 years) really had a heart for missions. In fact it was at the heart of the denomination I was attending. As Catholics we really need to “step up the game” so to speak.

I love that I’ve returned to the Church, but the one thing that is blatantly obvious to me is how lacking we are in Evangelization. I’m in the Northeast and I see small Protestant churches popping up here and there…they are gifted with Evanglism and have a focus on fellowship, really drawing people in - especially Catholics… this area is a breeding ground for Catholics fleeing given all the church scandals in the last 25 years - I see it a lot with middle-aged adults - those who stuck it out for many years but finally just gave up.

I am really excited to see the young adult ministries thriving however (products of Steubenville conferences and those like it) and hope that they will inspire a new generation to take the ball and run with it.

I loved Pope Francis’s message on Evangelization and it couldn’t have come at a better time.

 

[marymary1975]

Dear fellow Catholics.

You must surely have heard the most unfortunate news from Latin America. That many in those countries are leaving the Church and joining other “churches” of the pentecostal/ Baptist variety.

I wonder how could this be? Could it be that the lower classes feel marginalized/ ignored by the Catholic leadership? Could it be that they feel angry that in the past some bishops/ cardinals were content to let various dictators do what they wanted?

Or maybe ( in my opinion most likely) many Latin Americans are poorly catechized, and practice a form of superstitious, syncretic, poorly understood “Catholocism” filled with processions of saints and Virgin marys, but little understanding of faith besides that?

Pentecostals/ Baptists offer a fairly simple message: “Sign on dotted line to accept Jesus as lord and savior. Plus maybe if you accept him, you will get a fancy house or a flashy new car!”

This is one of the reasons why I think it is excellent Bergoglio was elected Pope. He is in a unique position to re-evangelize his fellow Latin Americans.

Tell me what you think, friends in Christ!

I think that you are reading too much alarming media. What you are saying comes from two or three articles published in certain magazines that are quite good I’m generalizations and playing with numbers to scare people. Your first statement is people.in latinoamerica are leaving the church. That is a very broad statement. Which country are we talking about? Between Mexico and the patagonia are quite a big number of countries with very different circumstances, very different races and religions and I can give you quite a list of countries where non catholic converting to catholicism outnumber Catholics leaving the other churches. What you, and those article, are doing is unerring situations coming out from Mexico and Brazil. Mexico and Brazil are not the entire latinoamerica, and going even further Brazilians are NOT hispanics which makes them an entire different ballgame and puts them in a very different situation so the first week being made here is putting Brazil under the same lens as Mexico.

The first thing they say is that catholicism is going down in Mexico from 90% to 80%. What they aren’t telling you is that out of that 83%, 80% are practicing Catholics! Mexico’s numbers have always had between a 4-7% of cafeteria Catholics. Also, what has been on the rise to a 5-7% in Mexico is Atheism and secularism, while the numbers in other religions has remained the same. So you don’t have to be a scientist to figure out that what has happened in Mexico is that the anti-life culture that has been imported from the US Has taken over the cafeteria catholics and they have left the church and become atheists. Also, nobody has mentioned that Mexico broke up diplomatic relationships with the Vaticanany years ago. I am almost positive that when Mexico’s catholic population was about 94% was before the rupture with the Vatican. When Mexico and the Vatican broke up that was when the first dropp in catholism occurred to an 88% which means that the main reason why some Catholics left the church was a consequence of the break up. Now more recently, anti-life movement has gained popularity between cafeteria Catholics so that iS where you see the dropped, not from going to other churches.

The second country is Brazil. I am not surprised as to Brazil as it has always been a heavily secular country. From all the countries in south America Brazil has always been the least catholic

 

[marymary1975]

Sorry I got cut off, Brazil has always been the less catholic of south America. Brazilian has always been very secular and with lower numbers of practicing Catholics. Add to.that large numbers of.different races who have come out with religious sincretism and the drop in numbers make a lot of sense. Catholic priests were very into baptizng everybody catholocs but because of the different cultures with different religions those people would grow up in different religions.what happens in Brazil is that because its population is so big that makes it the country with the largest number of catholics (especially if we are talking about baptized Catholics) but in reality about a 40% of Catholics are only baptized as catholics, they are not practicing and grew up either in a different religion. Also, the high levels.of secularism in the country makes Brazil situation similar to US, people dont go to church, don’t believe in half.of its doctrine. But again the so call dropp is more because it has always been a heavily secular country.

Finally I don’t agree that latinamericas are not properly cathecized. Is actually the other way around. Americans are not.properly cathecized. Even lower classes in Mexico have a much better level of cathecism than the US. Now, of course there are heavy evangelical movements trying to steal Catholics but that is nothing new down there and is unrelated to the drops in Mexico and.Brazil.

 

[HabemusFrancis]

Brazilians are not hispanic? Are they instead, just white Portuguese transplants? Isnt there a lot of native/ european marriages? I just have a general idea that indeed, from Mexico to Tierra del fuego, there is an uptick in evangelical conversion.

Just look at Pope Francis Argentina. It has many evangelicals.

And why do you say that Brazil is a uniquely secular place? Are Portuguese less fervant Catholics than Spaniards?

And isn’t Argentina a bit more secular than Brazil? The Perons seemed pretty anti clerical, as does their current leader, Christina Fernandez Kirchner

 

[marymary1975]

Brazilians are not hispanic? Are they instead, just white Portuguese transplants? Isnt there a lot of native/ european marriages? I just have a general idea that indeed, from Mexico to Tierra del fuego, there is an uptick in evangelical conversion.

Just look at Pope Francis Argentina. It has many evangelicals.

And why do you say that Brazil is a uniquely secular place? Are Portuguese less fervant Catholics than Spaniards?

And isn’t Argentina a bit more secular than Brazil? The Perons seemed pretty anti clerical, as does their current leader, Christina Fernandez Kirchner

No Brazilians are NOT Hispanics. That is a typical American misconception born out of the US idea of lumping everyone from Mexico down in the same group as if everyone were from the same race and the same. Hispanics are only the countries who were ruled by Spain which excludes Brazil, Belize, the Guyanas and any other non-Spanish speaking country. Brazilian are very different from the rest of Hispanics and have a very different culture. As to Portuguese being less fervant, it has nothing to do with that. The difference is how the religion was introduced in both places. You cannot compare the countries ruled with Spain with the Portuguese rules because they have completely different circumstances which ended up in two very different cultures.

And yes Brazil has always been extremely secular and has never been know as a religious country. Brazilian has always been very liberal, have you ever seen a Brazilian carnival? Open sexuality have always been the norm in Brazil, nudity is legal and common in their streets, prostitution is legal and free, displays of erotic behavior in their streets is legal and heavily done (I have yet to meet one Hispanic who had been in Brazil who wasn’t terrorized over the displays of affection that you see in Brazilian streets), since about the 80’s the age for initiating sexual activity for most Brazilian girls was 12 years old, etc. Also, you miss that Brazil has millions of blacks and people who practice pagan religions. catholic priests in Brazil (in an effort to convert them ) started to baptize blacks and pagans, however this wasn’t successful because while being baptized Catholics they still remained practicing pagan African religions or they created a mix between paganisand catholism, so you have large numbers of Catholics practicing sincretism instead of catholism. Also there are huge numbers of Jews and Muslims, and millions of Indians which in contrast to Hispanic Indians, they are not Catholics so this makes.quite a difference if you compare it to Hispanics.

And no, Argentina is in no way secular. You are judging an entire country on two people. Per the CIA book Argentina is about 92% Catholics (I don’t know where do you think a less.than 5% evangelicals is a lot). Argentina has never has legal public nudity (like in Brazil), and I have never seen in Argentina the levels of open sexuality existent in Brazil. Some part of the.population in Argentina has issues with the church given issues during the dictatorship but that doesn’t mean they are secular. Christina fernandez may be secular and still the reason behind why she adopted all those secular policies was because the country was bankrupt and the international agencies conditioned their financial aid only if they passed those laws (gay marriage, contraception, etc.) So the reason why Argentina has those laws is not because its.population is.secular, is because that was the condition placed in order to provide financial aid.

And as I said, yes there is a movement of evangelicals trying to steal people from the catholic church but that is not new. I remember during the 80’s evangelicals going to our houses to try to talk people into their religion. I remember that they use to sale signs in the church saying we are Catholics and don’t want Evanhelic propaganda. This is back in 1982! But that movement has never had a substantial impact on the numbers of Catholics, yes a few people fall into it, but still the numbers remain the same for.most countries. The big changes are in Brazil and Mexico but the cases are attributable to other factors.

 

[graciew]

Brazilians are not hispanic? Are they instead, just white Portuguese transplants? Isnt there a lot of native/ european marriages? I just have a general idea that indeed, from Mexico to Tierra del fuego, there is an uptick in evangelical conversion.

Just look at Pope Francis Argentina. It has many evangelicals.

And why do you say that Brazil is a uniquely secular place? Are Portuguese less fervant Catholics than Spaniards?

And isn’t Argentina a bit more secular than Brazil? The Perons seemed pretty anti clerical, as does their current leader, Christina Fernandez Kirchner

I think Marymary has answered pretty well your questions in my understanding.
Hispanic is a reference to Spanish language,“hispano parlantes”. How it derived into whatever is south of the border,I do not know.
Argentina does not have that many evengelicals and the presence of the Catholic Church is very strong and everywhere you go.Especially where there are greater needs.
The president makes her own choices.The Perons as you call them are ancient history.
Popular religiosity and faith are expressed in a wide variety of ways,processions are part of this expression and a very respectable one.
I would not like to get into comparisons in terms of poor/better cathequesis,for I have seen people living the Gospel here,there and everywhere.
We are the Church. There has always been a call to go out and spread the Gospel joyfully.A call to serve Jesus in those in need. A call to open up the game enthusiastically for those who may want to join in …
It is not about blaming the Church hierarchy if we are falling asleep.It is about us.
.In any case,the document at Aparecida is a very interesting one and it also deals with culture in south America.
God bless you.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Catholicism is the true religion. Because it is true, it demands of us that we be the best we can be. For many people, a religion that offers less self discipline (“Be ye perfect even as your heavenly Father is perfect”) is an easier religion to live. Human nature being what it is, people will take the road easiest to travel.