Protestants: Is Mary Highly Favored?

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In direct answer to the question, absolutely and without doubt. I understand calling Mary the “Mother of God”, too. It is difficult at first to take each word in it’s literal when one thinks of God Almighty having a literal mother yet I understand the apologetic for it as presented by the RCC. If I have misrepresented this apologetic please correct me.

I wish Mary was more favored in our church. The women’s retreat at our church this year was on Mary. Maybe there’s hope yet.? She is one of four Saints in our church (stained glass…no statues)

She was in the room when the apostles received the Holy Spirit during the Pentecost. I think she was the only one who was not an apostle who was in the room?
 
57Bill said:
In direct answer to the question, absolutely and without doubt. I understand calling Mary the “Mother of God”, too. It is difficult at first to take each word in it’s literal when one thinks of God Almighty having a literal mother yet I understand the apologetic for it as presented by the RCC. If I have misrepresented this apologetic please correct me.

I wish Mary was more favored in our church. The women’s retreat at our church this year was on Mary. Maybe there’s hope yet.? She is one of four Saints in our church (stained glass…no statues)

She was in the room when the apostles received the Holy Spirit during the Pentecost. I think she was the only one who was not an apostle who was in the room?
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Bill Theotokos Mother of God does not mean that Mary is the mother of God the Father, or the Holy Trinity in any way.

What it does mean is that Mary is the mother of Jesus who is God incarnate and second person in the Holy Trinity.
 
]QUOTE]Originally Posted by stewstew03
Well, here is a quote from Matt Slick explaining that Catholics created false doctrine based on a bad translation of kexaritomena:

The short version: kexaritomena doesn’t mean “full of grace” and therefore Catholic doctrine is erroneous.

My point: even translating it as “highly favored” doesn’t change that Mary was without sin.

Question: can the Mother of God at any point oppose her own Son? Can Jesus and Mary be rivals?

#1. I could not find any translation from Greek to English for “kexaritomena”

#2. Your position effectively VOIDS the ENTIRE Bible for ALL Catholics and Christians as being wrongly translated…

#3. Mary is an absolute sense THEOLOGICALY HAD TO BE PERFECT{ED} in order to be the Mother of a Perfect God. GOD WHO IS PERFECT NAD MUST REMAIN PERFECT HAD TO COME FROM A MOTHER WHO TTO WAS MADE PERFECT THROUGH THE MERITS OF HER SON JESUS. {time does not exisr for God]}.

#4. Because this HAS TO BE FACTUAL; your understanding must be incorrect.

God Bless,
Pat
 
57Bill said:
In direct answer to the question, absolutely and without doubt. I understand calling Mary the “Mother of God”, too. It is difficult at first to take each word in it’s literal when one thinks of God Almighty having a literal mother yet I understand the apologetic for it as presented by the RCC. If I have misrepresented this apologetic please correct me.

I wish Mary was more favored in our church. The women’s retreat at our church this year was on Mary. Maybe there’s hope yet.? She is one of four Saints in our church (stained glass…no statues)

She was in the room when the apostles received the Holy Spirit during the Pentecost. I think she was the only one who was not an apostle who was in the room?
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Sounds great, yes Women take to this much easier. No different in the CC. Mary was the first disciple of Christ, Imagine spending 30-years at home talking to God? I can’t even begin to wrap my mind around that.

People often get the impression all Catholics spend time daily in prayer recitation to Our Lady. fact is thats just not true. Now I have met a few other men who are regulars with this but the women are much more likely. Jeez they even start looking like Mary after awhile. Mass daily, front row pews with their mantles on, 15-minutes early to recite the Rosary. I’m powerfully impressed with these souls. Truth is I feel stupid because I watched my mother and grandmother do exactly this. Just give it a try they would say, it won’t hurt you ya know, and will probly help. Ah male ego is a wonder to behold.

The other day on EWTN they told ArchBishop Lori what a great job he was doing etc. He laughed, and said; its not me its the Grandmothers and Mothers who teach this faith. Indeed he was right as I’ve witnessed this in life. At some point I decided I was being hardheaded and listened to them. I believe it was a Saving Grace. I certainly had my own concept of what I thought Catholicism was till that point.

There’s just some things in this world you can’t clearly explain, I do believe the Blessed Mother is one.
 
mrsdizzyd84 said:
And who is Matt Slick, and why should we care what he has to say.
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You shouldn’t…
So far as I’m concerned, he is some zealot that decided to create some sort of institution and call himself an authority.
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Agreed. But doesn’t this describe most Protestant churches in the US?
My dear Catholic brother, you must always remember that we protestants don’t have a magisterium. Quoting some crackpot, zealot, or money grubbing televangelist does not effective argumentation make.
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I understand, protestantism is a moving target.

Question for you MrsDizzy84 - can Jesus and His Mother ever be rivals?

Thanks for the discussion!
 
stewstew03 said:
I don’t disagree with you.

Still, if a protestant translates the verse as Mary being “highly favored” - I fail to see the distinction between “you are highly favored by God (and have been highly favored by God) so I will send an angel to greet you” and “you are full of grace.” In other words, their mis-interpretation of the Greek text does not change Mary’s standing with God. No other person in the NT finds favor with God in the way that He favors Mary. What is the state of being highly favored by God if it is not being in a state of God’s full grace?
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I may not know much in terms of theology etc but it seems people are taking their eyes off Christ in these posts, I thought Jesus said he was the way the truth and the life? Although highly blessed, favoured, full of grace, whatever you want to call it, Jesus mother Mary is always second spot in the bible to Christ e.g. ‘the child and his mother?’. Jesus didn’t say, me and my mother are the way the truth and the life. Too much importance dedicated to side issues me thinks, Just a thought!
 
woollyb682012 said:
I may not know much in terms of theology etc but it seems people are taking their eyes off Christ in these posts, I thought Jesus said he was the way the truth and the life? Although highly blessed, favoured, full of grace, whatever you want to call it, Jesus mother Mary is always second spot in the bible to Christ e.g. ‘the child and his mother?’. Jesus didn’t say, me and my mother are the way the truth and the life. Too much importance dedicated to side issues me thinks, Just a thought!
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The thread’s topic is narrow. It’s not necessary to begin each discussion with a John 14:6 caveat because if you call yourself a Christian this is assumed to be the case.

If you’re challenging the idea that Catholics are Christians, then you might want to start your own thread on that topic.
 
stewstew03 said:
Agreed. But doesn’t this describe most Protestant churches in the US?
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No. It is one thing to prayerfully speak of and teach the Bible as you believe God has revealed it to you. It is quite another to campaign against another church’s positions/policies for you own personal and financial gain a la Slick. NB: He is not the only Christian (Catholic or otherwise) to be guilty of this.
Question for you MrsDizzy84 - can Jesus and His Mother ever be rivals?
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In what way?
 
Gary and Martin;

Tim Staples’ series is the BEST I have EVER HEARD, a real tour de force. He talks about the Collyridians & their attempts at Mary worship, it was really rather cultish & St Epiphanius took them to task under no uncertain terms (3rd - 5th century was it? I’ll have to find my Jurgens’ ECF volume 1 & double check).

Anyone who ponders this in their heart would realize Mary is the most humble creature that God ever created & the last person to want a speck of “glory” for herself. It’s all for HER SON. I tire of sloppy scholarship & never-ending attempts to subvert the Blessed Mother; hey, now where does that** come from? Where are most Prot’s in the scheme of things: “All generations shall call me Blessed.” Her prophecy has been oblivious to many for far too long.

HAPPY EASTER!!!
 
stewstew03 said:
Then you must not see Mary as the Mother of Our Lord…

[BIBLEDRB]Luke 1:43[/BIBLEDRB]
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Mary as the mother of Jesus, not God. While Mary did bear Jesus to birth, she did not share genetics with Him. In short, God did not fertilize and egg in Mary’s womb, but placed Jesus as a fetus, whether two cells, eight cells, 32 cells, I don’t know, into Mary’s womb.
 
stevekehl said:
Mary as the mother of Jesus, not God. While Mary did bear Jesus to birth, she did not share genetics with Him. In short, God did not fertilize and egg in Mary’s womb, but placed Jesus as a fetus, whether two cells, eight cells, 32 cells, I don’t know, into Mary’s womb.
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2 Samuel 7:11-16 and 1 Chronicles 17:11-15. In summary, the promise is that:

David’s seed will be the Son of God.
David’s seed will build a house for God’s name.
David’s seed will reign for ever from David’s throne in Jerusalem
if God did not fertilize an egg in BVM womb how is the promise to David held true. as it seems to me that you are suggesting that the BVM is a suragate mother to Jesus

Mary comes from a female line that begins with Dinah, the daughter of Jacob and Leah. Genesis 34. Leah gave birth to a Son Judah, and Leah gave birth to a daughter Dinah. Joseph comes from the tribe of Judah, Judah is the Son of Jacob and Leah and from him comes King David and then Joseph and Jesus.
Both Mary and Joseph were descended from King David
 
stevekehl said:
Mary as the mother of Jesus, not God. While Mary did bear Jesus to birth, she did not share genetics with Him. In short, God did not fertilize and egg in Mary’s womb, but placed Jesus as a fetus, whether two cells, eight cells, 32 cells, I don’t know, into Mary’s womb.
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According to the view you represent here, then we are still in our sins.
 
stevekehl said:
Mary as the mother of Jesus, not God. While Mary did bear Jesus to birth, she did not share genetics with Him. In short, God did not fertilize and egg in Mary’s womb, but placed Jesus as a fetus, whether two cells, eight cells, 32 cells, I don’t know, into Mary’s womb.
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This is completely unbiblical and Iggy is right: if this is correct we are all unsaved and Jesus is some sort of space creature, not being really human at all! Are there Protestants out there in any appreciable numbers who are so desperate to get around the Catholic teaching on this issue that they would actually ascribe to this position?!
 
Blacksword said:
This is completely unbiblical and Iggy is right: if this is correct we are all unsaved and Jesus is some sort of space creature, not being really human at all! Are there Protestants out there in any appreciable numbers who are so desperate to get around the Catholic teaching on this issue that they would actually ascribe to this position?!
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By the definition of Christian, no. The comment denies the truth of the Incarnation, the person of Christ, and the words of the Athanasian Creed;
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe faithfully the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is, that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God of the Substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man of the substance of His mother, born in the world; Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
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Jon
 
stevekehl said:
Mary as the mother of Jesus, not God. While Mary did bear Jesus to birth, she did not share genetics with Him. In short, God did not fertilize and egg in Mary’s womb, but placed Jesus as a fetus, whether two cells, eight cells, 32 cells, I don’t know, into Mary’s womb.
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So you are Nestorian.
 
mrsdizzyd said:
It is quite another to campaign against another church’s positions/policies for you own personal and financial gain a la Slick.
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The reality is that Protestantism lends itself to this kind of campaigning - more so than Catholicism, which does not permit this kind of campaigning.
NB: He is not the only Christian (Catholic or otherwise) to be guilty of this.
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Agreed; except, I can’t think of any Catholic Church leaders who campaign for their own personal and financial gain. If you can name a few, then I would be enlightened.
In what way?
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Can Mary ever oppose her son, Jesus Christ? If you believe she was stained with Original Sin, then the answer is ‘yes,’ which places protestants (or at least those who believe Mary was stained with OS) in the awkward position of arguing that Mary had a natural inclination to oppose her son. (See related thread here).
 
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