Protestants listen up

[OnlyJesus]

**Amazing huh, how many people don’t realize that the book of Revelations has already happened! **

I’m aware of the Preterist viewpoint Rinnie. Is there some other that you speak of?

I believe some parts of Revelation are repeated much as a history book repeats historical facts. I don’t believe all Revelation events have occurred. Such as when did the 1000 years of Jesus reign on earth occur…when was there ever in the history of mankind was there 1000 years of PEACE?

Someone perhaps it was you who said we protestants answer a question with a question.

When you make remarks like this>>> **Amazing huh, how many people don’t realize that the book of Revelations has already happened! ** then if someone is actually reading what you posted, you are going to get questions asked for sure over posts like that.

 

[OnlyJesus]

this is for almightservant who said "the second person of the trinity existed in the beginning. But Jesus did not. "

Jesus IS the Son. He existed in the Beginning as the Word of God. The Word of God became flesh and dwelt among us. Jesus is not only the Son, but he was also Creator God.

John 1

1** In the beginning was the Word**, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true** Light**, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own ( the Jews ), and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, **and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. **

I’ll be back soon. Good night it’s late where i am.

 

[rinnie]

Hey guys. Sorry I should have signed out, been out all evening.

Let me start here and will finish tommorow, Jesus Christ it the Church, you cannot separate Jesus from his church. RCC is the living Christ.

No way, no how , can you say that the Blessed Mother has more power then God. Never said it, never meant to say it. What I am saying is this, Jesus loves his mother, she is without sin, She loves us, and is here for us, and will pray for us if we ask. Her prayer hold alot of power. Why? Because she is the Mother of God, We know she is righteous, because she has no sins. Why would we not believe that her prayers can help us. More than anyone in this world or anytime in history. WHY!

Ok, Question of the week. Attention all protestants. Who can say that they are more righteous then the Blessed Mother and are sinless? She can, she is. Get my point.

Again please go back to O.T. Read the last chapter of Job. You will see what I am saying.

Go to the righteous, I will listen to their prayer. again read Job! God picked her! Thats all I am saying. She knows PAIN, she knows our sorrow, She has so much power. IT CAME FROM GOD! IT is the Power to HELP US. GOD GAVE IT TO HER. I am not saying that she overpowers God. NEVER! But she is next best in line! I KNOW! She can help you better than anyone else in this world. Getting back to Job she is the righteous! Read it, then let me know what you think!

Gotta go! Have a wonderful and blessed night. Will have you all in my prayers.

 

[CWBetts]

**Amazing huh, how many people don’t realize that the book of Revelations has already happened! **

I’m aware of the Preterist viewpoint Rinnie. Is there some other that you speak of?

I believe some parts of Revelation are repeated much as a history book repeats historical facts. I don’t believe all Revelation events have occurred. Such as when did the 1000 years of Jesus reign on earth occur…when was there ever in the history of mankind was there 1000 years of PEACE?

Someone perhaps it was you who said we protestants answer a question with a question.

When you make remarks like this>>> **Amazing huh, how many people don’t realize that the book of Revelations has already happened! ** then if someone is actually reading what you posted, you are going to get questions asked for sure over posts like that.

As a general rule, Catholics take the amillenialist view. The 1000 years is Satan’s time imprisoned, at which time he is powerless to stop the spread of Christianity. As in RIGHT NOW. At the end of the age, he will be released “for a season” Remember we also do not take 1000 years to mean 1000 years, but as a very long time.

 

[Kakieanne]

If you had actually read through this thread as you say you did, you would have seen it stated, it is not required of Catholics to pray to anyone but Jesus. Just as Protestants ask love ones or friends to pray for them, we ask our love ones to pray for us, including those in heaven, who by your own admission know what is happening on earth.

Let me ask you a question. What do you hope to accomplish on a Catholic forum? Specifically what are your goals here?

Wow, this is a long thread. As a Protestant, I know that it is not necessary to pray to the Blessed Mother who always leads us to her Beloved Son. But if we do, we will know Jesus better and love Him more.

I came to a Catholic forum to learn.

 

[elvisman]

dear prodigalson

Why do you ask Christians, on earth, to pray for you if Jesus is the only mediator between God and man?

Do you not believe that Mary is eternally alive in heaven? Do you not think that the Holy Spirit has made all things known to those in heaven, including what is happening on earth?

---

I’ve already answered that part about why ask other Christians to pray for me ( us, i.e. other Christian ) and given supporting scriptures.

As the scriptures tell us, I believe Mary’s spirit has returned to God who gave it. I believe her body however is asleep in Christ as are other Christ believers ( with a few exceptions noted in scripture ) and there her body will remain until Christ raises her up.

I believe those in heaven know and see what is happening down here as if they are watching a play.

Luke 15:10
Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

And especially this verse which has always struck me as so ominous as if the Father, Son and Holy Spirit along with the heavenly hosts are experiencing a solemn moment before destruction.

Revelation 8:1
And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

Ummm . . . you seem to read the bible - but I’m not sure you understand it - no, I’m certain you don’t.

You see - those who are in heaven are alive - more so than you and I because they have true unity with God, having been perfected because nothing unclean can enter heaven, according to Rev. 21:27. Your problem - and the problem with most anti-Marianists is that you think that those in heaven are no longer part of the body of Christ. You REALLY should read 1 Cor. 12:12-26 about the members of the Body of Christ.

As for the Body of Christ praying for one another, 1 Tim. 2:1-2 says explicitly:
"First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone, for kings and for all in authority, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all devotion and dignity."

YOU are a flawed human being - and so am I because we haven’t been made perfect until we get to heaven - yet St. Paul asks us to pray for one another. James 5:16 tells us also to pray for one another because "The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful." Are you righteous? how many righteous people do you know? Not many, right? EVERYBODY in heaven is righteous and according to James - THEIR prayers are very powerful.**

It’s interesting how you quoted Revelation. I also think it’s funny how you left this particular vere out:
Rev. 5:8
**"Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones (Hagios)." **
Funny how you left that out . . .

As for Jesus being our only mediator - He IS. He is in the sense that nobody else’s blood can save us. ONLY His.
BUT - we not only can pray for one another - we are told to do so in Scripture. To say differently is to deny the word of God.

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie it seems you talk a lot more about Mary than you do the Lord Jesus.

There also seems to be a tremendous emphasis of the Church over Christ as well by that I mean, it seems the church speaks of itself more than it does of Christ.

Do you believe in winning souls for Christ? Is soul winning a Catholic doctrine? If so, how does a Catholic go about speaking to someone of Jesus.

Hi OJ THe reason I am talking about Mary is this thread more than Jesus is because thats what the point of the thread was. The role the Blessed Mother has in our life.

As far as the Church it could not have emphasis over Christ, Christ is the Church. We as RC believe that when Jesus said he will always be in the Church believe those words,

As far as speaking to someone about Jesus, we are taught to not come on strong and push our faith on people. These forums and the way we talk is not what you would see in person. Let me explain. These forums are here to just express what we know and share and try to correct people who are wrong about our faith.

As a rule RC feel that more than preach we should be an example of our faith. How we know we do that is things happen. Like I have a small business in my home. When people are in trouble they ask me how I get through what I do. Small example when my husband had cancer. 9 months of hell. They ask how did you do it. I say I tried it my way and it didn’t work, so then I said okay God you got my attention. I will trust you and do it your way. I teach them that God is in control of my life now because I ask him to be.

When you trust him enough to listen to him, then he speaks. He will make things work. I can’t explain it but it will work out.

With People with kids I say Go to God and ask him to show them what we can’t. Then I tell them to Go to the Blessed Mother and she will watch over them. She will ask Jesus to give them what they need also.

But more than anything I tell them to TRUST GOD. I tell them what my Dad said, when anxiety takes over it is the devil trying to get you away from God. I tell them to say IN the name OF JESUS CHRIST devil depart from me. And it works. I tell them the devil is afraid of God and will run. I tell them then to say Jesus take over my soul, fill it with you love and strength. over and over until a peace comes over them. then it will be okay,

Things like that. But I never push it on them, they come to me. Always. But they ask me alot how I can have the faith I do, and ask ME about God. Thats how I know I must be doing a pretty good job. They say they want the faith I have.

 

[meandean]

meandean;5202192:

**I’m not **

angry at all. I just get a little frustrated when I ask a question and it gets answered with gibberish that has nothing to do with the question I asked.

As for the Hypostatic Union - I assume you believe it? Again, your answer is a little vague. Please just answer yes or no.

As for Mary being Queen of Heaven - I rsponded to this several posts back to another person, but I’ll explain it again.
The Davidic Kingdon was a model for the Kingdom of heaven as shown in several comparisons, including: Isaiah 20:22/Matt. 16:19, 1 Kings 2:19/Rev. 12:1-6, 2 Sam. 6:9/Luke 1:43.
In the Davidic Kingdom, Solomon’s mother, Bathsheba was the queen - not any of his hundreds of wives. She sat at the throne on his right hand. Solomon instituted this because he was a good servant of the Lord.

Does this help? Can you unsderstand why Catholics believe her to be the Mother of God and Queen of Heaven?

Also - can you answer my question about the Hypostatic Union with a yes or a no?hey elvisman, it took awhile, but i studied these verses you gave me. let me first tell you yes to the nature of christ. and for mary, the title you have reached, is a firm no. let me start with 1 kings 2: 19. it actually starts in verse 13 thru 25. adonijah has plans to usurp king solomons thone by using bathseba. if solomon grants this request from bathseba on behalf of adonijah, adonijah would become king by marriage and sleeping with abishag the shunimite.this leads us to verse 9. solomon upholds the law exodus 20:12, giving honor and respect to his mom. nothing more, nothing less.here is what i see with this passage. adonijah goes to bathseba,using her to usurp the throne of solomon and gain all power and authority, solomon rebukes this and kills adonijah. the catholic church goes to mary, to usurp the throne of christ to gain all power and authority, he rebukes them, and if they dont repent, it will lead to death. this was a great scripture and i thank you for this opportunity. revelatians 12: 1-6 the woman here is israel pure and simple. this is refering to josephs dream in genesis 37: 9-10. the sun= jacob, the moon = rachel, the 12 stars= the 12 tribes. this is not referring to mary, or the church of all ages. israel is the bride of christ, the church is part of the bridegroom, in the end at the marriage feast the 2 become one. thanks again, but this mary deal was a rabbit trail and in my beliefs, needs to be thrown out.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

hey elvisman, it took awhile, but i studied these verses you gave me. let me first tell you yes to the nature of christ. and for mary, the title you have reached, is a firm no. let me start with 1 kings 2: 19. it actually starts in verse 13 thru 25. adonijah has plans to usurp king solomons thone by using bathseba. if solomon grants this request from bathseba on behalf of adonijah, adonijah would become king by marriage and sleeping with abishag the shunimite.this leads us to verse 9. solomon upholds the law exodus 20:12, giving honor and respect to his mom. nothing more, nothing less.here is what i see with this passage. adonijah goes to bathseba,using her to usurp the throne of solomon and gain all power and authority, solomon rebukes this and kills adonijah. the catholic church goes to mary, to usurp the throne of christ to gain all power and authority, he rebukes them, and if they dont repent, it will lead to death. this was a great scripture and i thank you for this opportunity. revelatians 12: 1-6 the woman here is israel pure and simple. this is refering to josephs dream in genesis 37: 9-10. the sun= jacob, the moon = rachel, the 12 stars= the 12 tribes. this is not referring to mary, or the church of all ages. israel is the bride of christ, the church is part of the bridegroom, in the end at the marriage feast the 2 become one. thanks again, but this mary deal was a rabbit trail and in my beliefs, needs to be thrown out.

Which, Jacob, Rachel, or the 12 tribes, had a male child that would rule with a Messianic iron and would be taken up to heaven, to God and His throne?

The point was not how Solomon dealt with his brother, the point was he made his mother the Queen Mother, while he ruled from the Davidic throne, the same throne given to the Messiah.

I’ve told you the Catholic Church centers around Jesus Christ, the head of the Church. The Catholic Church does not try and usurp the throne of Christ to gain all power and authority. Christ gave that authority to the Apostles, who started the Church. It sounds, to me, like you’ve found an anti-Catholic source for an answer, which is sad, in my opinion.

Catholics say what their beliefs are and explain them, but Protestants reject the explanation and tell us what we really believe.

 

[meandean]

Which, Jacob, Rachel, or the 12 tribes, had a male child that would rule with a Messianic iron and would be taken up to heaven, to God and His throne?

The point was not how Solomon dealt with his brother, the point was he made his mother the Queen Mother, while he ruled from the Davidic throne, the same throne given to the Messiah.

I’ve told you the Catholic Church centers around Jesus Christ, the head of the Church. The Catholic Church does not try and usurp the throne of Christ to gain all power and authority. Christ gave that authority to the Apostles, who started the Church. It sounds, to me, like you’ve found an anti-Catholic source for an answer, which is sad, in my opinion.

Catholics say what their beliefs are and explain them, but Protestants reject the explanation and tell us what we really believe.

i did state that it is israel didn’t i? the woman isthe nation of israel. the child came out of israel. isaiah 9:6. hebrews 7:14. romans 9:4-5.john 4:9. micah 5:2-3. the list could go on. now i gave you the benefit of the doubt, i took the scriptures you gave me and studied them, carefully and prayerfully. you told me alot of things prodigal, and i thank you for this opportunity. what this shows me in your retort, is, i’m bashing you and your church. thats a lie. i found in my belief by studying your ideas about mary , false, and they err tremendously. it is a lie and therefore needs to be thrown out.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

i did state that it is israel didn’t i? the woman isthe nation of israel. the child came out of israel. isaiah 9:6. hebrews 7:14. romans 9:4-5.john 4:9. micah 5:2-3. the list could go on. now i gave you the benefit of the doubt, i took the scriptures you gave me and studied them, carefully and prayerfully. you told me alot of things prodigal, and i thank you for this opportunity. what this shows me in your retort, is, i’m bashing you and your church. thats a lie. i found in my belief by studying your ideas about mary , false, and they err tremendously. it is a lie and therefore needs to be thrown out.

While you may disagree with the beliefs, you have produced nothing substantial enough to call them a lie or an err. You might not agree with the interpretation, but you can clearly see how the belief comes from the scriptures. I assume you believe in sola scriptura and private interpretation. Please tell me by what authority you can tell another their interpretation is a “lie” or even an “err”?

A woman is Israel. How did you arrive at that meaning? I didn’t see where you provided any scriptures to support that. I’d also like to know how Israel suffered the pains of the birth of the Messiah they clearly rejected.

We stated in this very thread, that the twelve stars represented the 12 tribes and the 12 Apostles, or do you not believe Christ chose 12 to represent the 12 tribes?

 

[meandean]

While you may disagree with the beliefs, you have produced nothing substantial enough to call them a lie or an err. You might not agree with the interpretation, but you can clearly see how the belief comes from the scriptures. I assume you believe in sola scriptura and private interpretation. Please tell me by what authority you can tell another their interpretation is a “lie” or even an “err”?

A woman is Israel. How did you arrive at that meaning? I didn’t see where you provided any scriptures to support that. I’d also like to know how Israel suffered the pains of the birth of the Messiah they clearly rejected.

We stated in this very thread, that the twelve stars represented the 12 tribes and the 12 Apostles, or do you not believe Christ chose 12 to represent the 12 tribes?

prodigal son, you have already challenged me with the scriptures and trail you accept as truth. i went down that trail and it ended. i am not here to pick fights or call names. i gave you enough to go on. i too, gave you an explaination to what i believe. now, it’s up too you. will you look into these things or will you still try to argue this trail?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

prodigal son, you have already challenged me with the scriptures and trail you accept as truth. i went down that trail and it ended. i am not here to pick fights or call names. i gave you enough to go on. i too, gave you an explaination to what i believe. now, it’s up too you. will you look into these things or will you still try to argue this trail?

I will simply say, I do not agree with your interpretation. I feel that’s more charitable that calling your interpretation or beliefs a lie, or an err.

I asked a couple of straightforward questions. One, is where does your authority come from to say our interpretation is wrong, much less a lie and an err? Please provide a scriptural source.

The second question, which I’ll admit has a couple of questions within it, was, how do get get the woman to be Israel? How did Israel feel the pains of that birth of the Messiah, which they clearly rejected?

If you’re going to assert our interpretation is a lie, or an err, then the proof is on you to show that, without any doubt whatsoever.

Oh yea, did you not think Christ chose 12 Apostles to represent the 12 tribes?

 

[meandean]

I will simply say, I do not agree with your interpretation. I feel that’s more charitable that calling your interpretation or beliefs a lie, or an err.

I asked a couple of straightforward questions. One, is where does your authority come from to say our interpretation is wrong, much less a lie and an err? Please provide a scriptural source.

The second question, which I’ll admit has a couple of questions within it, was, how do get get the woman to be Israel? How did Israel feel the pains of that birth of the Messiah, which they clearly rejected?

If you’re going to assert our interpretation is a lie, or an err, then the proof is on you to show that, without any doubt whatsoever.

Oh yea, did you not think Christ chose 12 Apostles to represent the 12 tribes?

jesus was asked the same question, where does your authority come from… i will leave it at that. i am sorry that you do not want to look into these things. but i do understand why you won’t. look, i was challenged by another roman catholic on communion, john 6, to be precise. i must give him the same honor as i gave you. we can talk after that if you would like. thank you once again, but i must go on to scott hahn and the sacraments

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

jesus was asked the same question, where does your authority come from… i will leave it at that. i am sorry that you do not want to look into these things. but i do understand why you won’t. look, i was challenged by another roman catholic on communion, john 6, to be precise. i must give him the same honor as i gave you. we can talk after that if you would like. thank you once again, but i must go on to scott hahn and the sacraments

I looked, but disagreed, respectfully. You looked, disagreed, and called our interpretation a lie and an err. I’m sorry to say, to me, that’s phrased as an ad hominem.

Scott Hahn is a great source for answers to your questions about Catholicism. While you’re visiting his website be sure to check out Holy Queen: The Mother of God in the Word of God. If you wish to view all his Bible lessons, visit his Online Bible Study Courses. He provides a great Biblical explanation of Catholic beliefs, in my opinion. In fact, he’s my favorite apologist author. I have a collection of his books and I frequent his online Bible study alot.

 

[elvisman]

elvisman;5202311:

hey elvisman, it took awhile, but i studied these verses you gave me. let me first tell you yes to the nature of christ. and for mary, the title you have reached, is a firm no. let me start with 1 kings 2: 19. it actually starts in verse 13 thru 25. adonijah has plans to usurp king solomons thone by using bathseba. if solomon grants this request from bathseba on behalf of adonijah, adonijah would become king by marriage and sleeping with abishag the shunimite.this leads us to verse 9. solomon upholds the law exodus 20:12, giving honor and respect to his mom. nothing more, nothing less.here is what i see with this passage. adonijah goes to bathseba,using her to usurp the throne of solomon and gain all power and authority, solomon rebukes this and kills adonijah. the catholic church goes to mary, to usurp the throne of christ to gain all power and authority, he rebukes them, and if they dont repent, it will lead to death. this was a great scripture and i thank you for this opportunity. revelatians 12: 1-6 the woman here is israel pure and simple. this is refering to josephs dream in genesis 37: 9-10. the sun= jacob, the moon = rachel, the 12 stars= the 12 tribes. this is not referring to mary, or the church of all ages. israel is the bride of christ, the church is part of the bridegroom, in the end at the marriage feast the 2 become one. thanks again, but this mary deal was a rabbit trail and in my beliefs, needs to be thrown out.

Honor to his mom - nothing more, nothing less? I beg to differ, my friend.

**Let me ask you something - when was the last time you bowed before your **mother? Solomon not only paid her homage - he set up a throne at his right hand and made her Queen - before and above any of his 700 wives and 300 concubines. This was a first - a precedent set by the Davidic Kingdom, which, as I already pointed out is modeled after the Kingdom of Heaven.

As for the Bride of Christ - you’re wrong. It’s the Church, not Israel. The Church is the New Israel - the New Jerusalem spoken of in Rev. 21. She is the bride as spoken of in Matt. 25:1-13, Mark 2:18-22 and 2 Cor. 11:2. In the Mark reference (2:22), Israel is the Old Wine and Old wineskins, whereas the Church is the New Wine, for which New wineskins must be prepared.

Finally, your interpretation doesn’t stand with most Protestant scholars - who also allow for many symbolisms in the text. The Woman is Israel - the Woman is Mary - the Woman is the Church. The 1260 days is a direct reference to the sufferings of the Church spoken of in Rev. 11:2.

 

[elvisman]

hey elvisman, it took awhile, but i studied these verses you gave me. let me first tell you yes to the nature of christ. and for mary, the title you have reached, is a firm no. let me start with 1 kings 2: 19. it actually starts in verse 13 thru 25. adonijah has plans to usurp king solomons thone by using bathseba. if solomon grants this request from bathseba on behalf of adonijah, adonijah would become king by marriage and sleeping with abishag the shunimite.this leads us to verse 9. solomon upholds the law exodus 20:12, giving honor and respect to his mom. nothing more, nothing less.here is what i see with this passage. adonijah goes to bathseba,using her to usurp the throne of solomon and gain all power and authority, solomon rebukes this and kills adonijah. the catholic church goes to mary, to usurp the throne of christ to gain all power and authority, he rebukes them, and if they dont repent, it will lead to death. this was a great scripture and i thank you for this opportunity. revelatians 12: 1-6 the woman here is israel pure and simple. this is refering to josephs dream in genesis 37: 9-10. the sun= jacob, the moon = rachel, the 12 stars= the 12 tribes. this is not referring to mary, or the church of all ages. israel is the bride of christ, the church is part of the bridegroom, in the end at the marriage feast the 2 become one. thanks again, but this mary deal was a rabbit trail and in my beliefs, needs to be thrown out.

**One last thing I forgot to check. I take it you DO believe in the Hypostatic Union? **Is that what you’re saying in the above red underlined text?

If so - then you MUST believe that Mary is the Mother of God. She CANNOT be mother of only Jesus’ human nature since his humanity and divinity cannot be separated.

If you accept this teaching, then you are in line with 2000 years of Christian belief.
If not - you are a walking contradiction.

 

[ppasa316]

I never said they actually filled in the gaps, I only asked if it was a possibility. Actually, the traditional belief in her immediate ascension into heaven without death is not entirely true. Many early Christians attest to her natural death. Some say she was buried in Jerusalem such as Epiphanius of Salamis, Gregory of Tours, Isidore of Seville, Saint Modest, Sophronius of Jerusalem, German of Constantinople, Andrew of Crete, John of Damascus. Others such as 3rd century Book of John about the Dormition of Mary and 4th century Treatise about the passing of the Blessed Virgin Mary claim her tomb was in Gethsemane, just outside of Jerusalem with a church built by Patriarch Juvenal. Others state it was in Ephesus. Case point: she died a natural death.

If she truly ascended in Heaven without death as Catholics believe, then why did she have a tomb?

The only reason why they believed she was resurrected was because her tomb was supposedly empty on the third day just like Christ. Of course, everything is exactly like Christ. In fact, they even have a widely celebrated feast called the Dormition of Mary celebrated by Eastern Christians to this day stating that she died first and then resurrected.

*** St. John of Damascus (P.G., I, 96) thus* formulates*** the tradition of the Church of Jerusalem:

*St. Juvenal, Bishop of Jerusalem, at the Council of Chalcedon (451), made known to the Emperor Marcian and Pulcheria, who wished to possess the body of the Mother of God, that Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles, but that her tomb, when opened, upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles **concluded ***that the body was taken up to heaven.

*** Catholic Encycolopedia

At the Council of Chalcedon in 451, when bishops from throughout the Mediterranean world gathered in Constantinople, Emperor Marcian asked the Patriarch of Jerusalem to bring the relics of Mary to Constantinople to be enshrined in the capitol. The patriarch explained to the emperor that there were no relics of Mary in Jerusalem, that
"Mary had died in the presence of the apostles; but her tomb, when opened later . . . was found empty and so the apostles concluded that the body was taken up into heaven."

Like I mentioned earlier, there were no eyewitnesses of her assumption and it was based on speculation and not direct observation.
In other cases, both Jesus and Elijah who were taken into heaven certainly had numerous eyewitnesses.
With that in mind, how does one know all the details that upon Mary’s ascension she was glorious crowned and all the angels were rejoicing? Also, please site any official Catholic documents stating that her ascension (without death) was apostolic tradition. I would love to know your (name removed by moderator)ut with sources.

Great job Hercules, Keep on fighting the Good fight of Faith. I see there many on here who have replied to your posts who don’t have a clue what they are saying. If you ask them to provide scripture to back up their statements they can’t. They either say some priest or council said it so it should be done. Even if the bible which is God’s Word says otherwise.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Great job Hercules, Keep on fighting the Good fight of Faith. I see there many on here who have replied to your posts who don’t have a clue what they are saying. If you ask them to provide scripture to back up their statements they can’t. They either say some priest or council said it so it should be done. Even if the bible which is God’s Word says otherwise.

Hello ppasa316,

Let’s turn the tables and see how it works, shall we? Where in the Bible is sola scriptura? Where in the Bible is “rapture”? Where in the Bible does it tell us to privately interpret scriptures for ourselves? Where in the Bible does it say Trinity?

I know you’ll be glad to show those scriptures to us, or as you say, God’s Word says otherwise and it would be safe to assume some preacher said it so it should be done…

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

If she truly ascended in Heaven without death as Catholics believe, then why did she have a tomb?

Using this reasoning, we have to ask, why did Jesus have a tomb?