Protestants listen up

[Prodigal_Son1]

This is getting intresting. I wonder if there will be a come back?

You don’t have to stay in the peanut gallery. Please feel free to jump in and offer your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[CWBetts]

You don’t have to stay in the peanut gallery. Please feel free to jump in and offer your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Your arguments are so complete what more can we say??

 

[racing59]

You don’t have to stay in the peanut gallery. Please feel free to jump in and offer your (name removed by moderator)ut.

O.K. I’ll try, but I’m no were near educated as some of you on these post.Many discusions on the Catholic Church are based on the EFC said. My Mom was raised Catholic and she was taught about infant Limbo.I do understand that is not a teaching of the Catholic Faith, but she was still taught that.Augustine toyed with the idea of infant Limbo.Many leaders in the Church taught this for years. I have seen other contradictions in the EFC. My question then is how can we say the EFC were acurate?

 

[CWBetts]

O.K. I’ll try, but I’m no were near educated as some of you on these post.Many discusions on the Catholic Church are based on the EFC said. My Mom was raised Catholic and she was taught about infant Limbo.I do understand that is not a teaching of the Catholic Faith, but she was still taught that.Augustine toyed with the idea of infant Limbo.Many leaders in the Church taught this for years. I have seen other contradictions in the EFC. My question then is how can we say the EFC were acurate?

We can look at the concensus of the Early Church Fathers. St. Augustine, as brilliant as he was, was not infallible, and he enjoyed no such pretection from teaching in error as the Pope would. However, we can compare what he said with what the other Fathers said, and there we find our answers. For example St. Jerome had questions about the validity of some of the Canon, but he submitted to the consencus of the other Fathers. We don’t rely on what individual Fathers said, but in what was practiced on the whole.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

O.K. I’ll try, but I’m no were near educated as some of you on these post.Many discusions on the Catholic Church are based on the EFC said. My Mom was raised Catholic and she was taught about infant Limbo.I do understand that is not a teaching of the Catholic Faith, but she was still taught that.Augustine toyed with the idea of infant Limbo.Many leaders in the Church taught this for years. I have seen other contradictions in the EFC. My question then is how can we say the EFC were acurate?

Here’s a link that can properly explain limbo. It wasn’t a “doctrine” so Catholics are allowed to believe, or reject, the teaching of limbo.

I had thought since you found the current discussion interesting, you would like to weigh in on that discussion.

 

[racing59]

Here’s a link that can properly explain limbo. It wasn’t a “doctrine” so Catholics are allowed to believe, or reject, the teaching of limbo.

I had thought since you found the current discussion interesting, you would like to weigh in on that discussion.

In a sense I was. I believe confession is good for the soul.What I found intresting were your post on all the scripture verses you had to back your position.I’m not that qualified to debate you.I don’t believe in Solo Scriptoria, I do believe we must look at history, who the author of Scripture is talking to, what was believed at that time, and the message that is being conveyed. I came here to learn from others. I have not come to the place you are at with the Catholic Faith. I do have some hang ups from my childhood with the Church, but I didn’t come here to air any grivences, I came to learn from people of all faiths. I do not understand why other scholar who study, come with different conclusions than you.I see beauty in RCC, but I’m still a doubting Thomas.:sad_yes:

 

[Louie1983]

In a sense I was. I believe confession is good for the soul.What I found intresting were your post on all the scripture verses you had to back your position.I’m not that qualified to debate you.I don’t believe in Solo Scriptoria, I do believe we must look at history, who the author of Scripture is talking to, what was believed at that time, and the message that is being conveyed. I came here to learn from others. I have not come to the place you are at with the Catholic Faith. I do have some hang ups from my childhood with the Church, but I didn’t come here to air any grivences, I came to learn from people of all faiths. I do not understand why other scholar who study, come with different conclusions than you.I see beauty in RCC, but I’m still a doubting Thomas.:sad_yes:

racing59 , a lot of people have a bad experience with the catholic church. But satan will attack the true church because he trying to keep people away from the truth! this is what he wants, keep searching for answer. you will get there one day my friend! And when you do, God will rejoice in you coming home to his church!

 

[racing59]

racing59 , a lot of people have a bad experience with the catholic church. But satan will attack the true church because he trying to keep people away from the truth! this is what he wants, keep searching for answer. you will get there one day my friend! And when you do, God will rejoice in you coming home to his church!

Thank you! I’m not ant-Catholic by any means.It is not that I don’t believe the Catholic Church has a long history. I can’t even explain what my hang up is in words. My wife and I try to live a good Christian life helping people,ect…I’m just not ready to single myself out in one Church. I have never had very good luck in Churches, I ask to many questions.My beautiful mother(God rest her soul) always said,“Actions speak so much more than words.” I guess my other big hang up, is my love for the Book of Revelation. I read and see the Book, so different than any body else, but what I see, I feel God has revieled to me.It has always cause me problems in discussions,but in my heart I know it’s true for me.I hope this explains somethings.I love to learn.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

In a sense I was. I believe confession is good for the soul.What I found intresting were your post on all the scripture verses you had to back your position.I’m not that qualified to debate you.I don’t believe in Solo Scriptoria, I do believe we must look at history, who the author of Scripture is talking to, what was believed at that time, and the message that is being conveyed. I came here to learn from others. I have not come to the place you are at with the Catholic Faith. I do have some hang ups from my childhood with the Church, but I didn’t come here to air any grivences, I came to learn from people of all faiths. I do not understand why other scholar who study, come with different conclusions than you.I see beauty in RCC, but I’m still a doubting Thomas.:sad_yes:

I’ve been there myself. Like I said in another post, you have to empty out everything you filled yourself up with and ask God to refill you with what He wants and trust in Him. He will.

When I started, I had a lot of questions and I’d trust in Him to give me an answer and I’d pray over it and I always got an answer. Sometimes I’d get an answer within minutes, sometimes within a couple of days. I’d read something, hear something on television, a friend would start a conversation that just happened to be something I had a question on, or I’d hear something in the Mass. The more He’d answer, the more questions I’d ask. I have no doubts He worked a miracle in my life.

Just give yourself over to Him totally and let Him do His work.

You’re in my prayers.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Thank you! I’m not ant-Catholic by any means.It is not that I don’t believe the Catholic Church has a long history. I can’t even explain what my hang up is in words. My wife and I try to live a good Christian life helping people,ect…I’m just not ready to single myself out in one Church. I have never had very good luck in Churches, I ask to many questions.My beautiful mother(God rest her soul) always said,“Actions speak so much more than words.” I guess my other big hang up, is my love for the Book of Revelation. I read and see the Book, so different than any body else, but what I see, I feel God has revieled to me.It has always cause me problems in discussions,but in my heart I know it’s true for me.I hope this explains somethings.I love to learn.

Revelations was a tough book for me, until I read Scott Hahn’s book, The Lamb’s Supper: The Mass as Heaven on Earth. It’s an easy read and I really enjoyed it, so much I ordered a set of his books.

Here’s a link to Scott’s conversion story, it’s a free CD. They also have other free CDs if you want extras to listen too. Scott was a Protestant minister/theologian who converted himself through scriptures.

 

[Louie1983]

Thank you! I’m not ant-Catholic by any means.It is not that I don’t believe the Catholic Church has a long history. I can’t even explain what my hang up is in words. My wife and I try to live a good Christian life helping people,ect…I’m just not ready to single myself out in one Church. I have never had very good luck in Churches, I ask to many questions.My beautiful mother(God rest her soul) always said,“Actions speak so much more than words.” I guess my other big hang up, is my love for the Book of Revelation. I read and see the Book, so different than any body else, but what I see, I feel God has revieled to me.It has always cause me problems in discussions,but in my heart I know it’s true for me.I hope this explains somethings.I love to learn.

Hi Racing59,

Yeah i definately understand where your coming from. Once upon a time i was asking a lot of questions about the church but i realise that in order for me to understand i had to believe first. I think God will only reveal to us certain thngs through faith, and this is how i came to know that the catholic church contains the fullness of truth. I doubted instead of believing, i questioned instead of listening. And don’t be afraid to ask too many questions either, it can create a positive for both people. How? The person that asks gets closer to the truth with every answer he receives, and the person answering improves his/her patience span!

 

[racing59]

Revelations was a tough book for me, until I read Scott Hahn’s book, The Lamb’s Supper: The Mass as Heaven on Earth. It’s an easy read and I really enjoyed it, so much I ordered a set of his books.

Here’s a link to Scott’s conversion story, it’s a free CD. They also have other free CDs if you want extras to listen too. Scott was a Protestant minister/theologian who converted himself through scriptures.

That is part of my problem.When I was in another faith and studyed Scripture I came to m any conclusions. A Catholic friend turned me on to Scott Hahn years ago. I could not get enough of his books and tapes.I love Covenant theology and dwealing deep into Scripture, too deep, for most people. Tree of Life, Eden, Revelation, ect… When I’ve talk to the Catholic priest in my area they have been anti-Scott Hahn and anti-Apologtics. This I do not understand. They are leaders in the Church.My Mom and Dad were married 62 years and I have a cousin onmy Moms side that is a Catholic priest. He told my Dad at my Mom’s funeral that they would not be married together in Heaven, their are no Sacraments in Heaven. Even if this is true, you don’t tell some one that when their wife of 62 years just died. He further told me Scott Hahns teachings were not Catholic, but Protestant. I didn’t want to air my grievance here, but I’m telling you all this so you can understand my journey.I just wish priest and many Catholics were educated like you guys. I find a contradiction in Apologist and many Catholic Priest, this has confused me, I don’t get it, why they are not educated like you if they are to be leaders?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

That is part of my problem.When I was in another faith and studyed Scripture I came to m any conclusions. A Catholic friend turned me on to Scott Hahn years ago. I could not get enough of his books and tapes.I love Covenant theology and dwealing deep into Scripture, too deep, for most people. Tree of Life, Eden, Revelation, ect… When I’ve talk to the Catholic priest in my area they have been anti-Scott Hahn and anti-Apologtics. This I do not understand. They are leaders in the Church.My Mom and Dad were married 62 years and I have a cousin onmy Moms side that is a Catholic priest. He told my Dad at my Mom’s funeral that they would not be married together in Heaven, their are no Sacraments in Heaven. Even if this is true, you don’t tell some one that when their wife of 62 years just died. He further told me Scott Hahns teachings were not Catholic, but Protestant. I didn’t want to air my grievance here, but I’m telling you all this so you can understand my journey.I just wish priest and many Catholics were educated like you guys. I find a contradiction in Apologist and many Catholic Priest, this has confused me, I don’t get it, why they are not educated like you if they are to be leaders?

Priests, like us, are men, with man’s limited comprehension of God’s infinite wisdom. So far, I’ve found nothing that Scott Hahn writes that is against the Catholic faith. Those things we are at liberty to have our own opinions of, Scott always qualifies his explanation by stating it’s not Church doctrine.

Why some are against Scott’s theological studies, I don’t understand and could only speculate.

I’ve seen a priest and a nun teach things were against Catholic dogma. I anonymously contacted a Monsignor about the teachings and conveyed my understanding of what I believed was the correct Catholic perspective. The Monsignor wrote me back that I had a good understanding of the Catholic faith and while the other teachings were certainly interesting, they were not in line with what the Church taught. Since then, the priest corrected his position on what he taught and the nun no longer teaches Bible study or leads our prayer group and she doesn’t speak about her beliefs that are not in line with the Church’s teachings. Before, she was quite outspoken. We are allowed to research other teachings, or perspectives, but we are not allowed to promote those things as acceptable teachings of the Church. This is where our nun had erred. I believe her influence with our priest caused his erroneous statements. The point of this story is to show you that sometimes our immediate leaders in the Church can be mistaken. I remember them in my prayers often and I’m actually seeing a response to my prayers through both of them.

I read the works of others and compare them to Scriptures and the Catechism and I pray for wisdom, understanding, knowledge, council of the Holy Spirit, piety, strength of faith and fear of the Lord (more a fear of being separated from the Lord than His just punishments).

Our Church history has documented mistakes of powerful men, yet the Church and His truth has survived them all. If the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church, the acts of sinful people certainly will not overcome it.

I can understand Martin Luther’s desire for reform at the time he started the reformation. There were many in the Church that believed there needed to be reforms. I believe his mistake was to leave the Church to start a reform. He threw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. You cannot fix what you leave. Remember, a house divided will not stand. Since he left the Church, his movement has divided more and more until there are thousands of denominations, who not only disagree with the Catholic Church, they disagree with each other.

Mat 12:25 And Jesus knowing their thoughts, said to them: Every kingdom divided against itself shall be made desolate: and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.

God can protect His truth. Jesus gave us a perfect example of this.

Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
Mat 23:3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not. For they say, and do not.

 

[racing59]

Priests, like us, are men, with man’s limited comprehension of God’s infinite wisdom. So far, I’ve found nothing that Scott Hahn writes that is against the Catholic faith. Those things we are at liberty to have our own opinions of, Scott always qualifies his explanation by stating it’s not Church doctrine.

Why some are against Scott’s theological studies, I don’t understand and could only speculate.

I’ve seen a priest and a nun teach things were against Catholic dogma. I anonymously contacted a Monsignor about the teachings and conveyed my understanding of what I believed was the correct Catholic perspective. The Monsignor wrote me back that I had a good understanding of the Catholic faith and while the other teachings were certainly interesting, they were not in line with what the Church taught. Since then, the priest corrected his position on what he taught and the nun no longer teaches Bible study or leads our prayer group and she doesn’t speak about her beliefs that are not in line with the Church’s teachings. Before, she was quite outspoken. We are allowed to research other teachings, or perspectives, but we are not allowed to promote those things as acceptable teachings of the Church. This is where our nun had erred. I believe her influence with our priest caused his erroneous statements. The point of this story is to show you that sometimes our immediate leaders in the Church can be mistaken. I remember them in my prayers often and I’m actually seeing a response to my prayers through both of them.

I read the works of others and compare them to Scriptures and the Catechism and I pray for wisdom, understanding, knowledge, council of the Holy Spirit, piety, strength of faith and fear of the Lord (more a fear of being separated from the Lord than His just punishments).

Our Church history has documented mistakes of powerful men, yet the Church and His truth has survived them all. If the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church, the acts of sinful people certainly will not overcome it.

I can understand Martin Luther’s desire for reform at the time he started the reformation. There were many in the Church that believed there needed to be reforms. I believe his mistake was to leave the Church to start a reform. He threw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. You cannot fix what you leave. Remember, a house divided will not stand. Since he left the Church, his movement has divided more and more until there are thousands of denominations, who not only disagree with the Catholic Church, they disagree with each other.

Mat 12:25 And Jesus knowing their thoughts, said to them: Every kingdom divided against itself shall be made desolate: and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.

God can protect His truth. Jesus gave us a perfect example of this.

Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
Mat 23:3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not. For they say, and do not.

Thank you Prodigal Son. I enjoy your post. You always bring up good valid points. I ask for prayers for my journey. I just wish God would answer my prayers of where he wants me.Right now the only church I get is Race Way Ministeries at the race track. I love the Catholic Church for the Mass and the Sacraments( Covenants), it just that the Masses I have been to in the past, the congregation seems so cold. I guess my problem is I’m looking for the Catholic Church, but a real strong sense of community that I have found in other churches. This is not warm fuzzies but a commitment to a life style in Jesus Christ.Most of the Catholics I have found on these post seem to have that. I wish that was in the cogregations I have seen. I’m not trying to make excuses and I hope I’m making sense. I have a responsibility as Spiritual leader of my family to find Truth, but to get feed spiritually not just with the Sacraments, but the Bible too.I don’t do anthing half way, I’m either all in or all out. Does this make any sense?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Thank you Prodigal Son. I enjoy your post. You always bring up good valid points. I ask for prayers for my journey. I just wish God would answer my prayers of where he wants me.Right now the only church I get is Race Way Ministeries at the race track. I love the Catholic Church for the Mass and the Sacraments( Covenants), it just that the Masses I have been to in the past, the congregation seems so cold. I guess my problem is I’m looking for the Catholic Church, but a real strong sense of community that I have found in other churches. This is not warm fuzzies but a commitment to a life style in Jesus Christ.Most of the Catholics I have found on these post seem to have that. I wish that was in the cogregations I have seen. I’m not trying to make excuses and I hope I’m making sense. I have a responsibility as Spiritual leader of my family to find Truth, but to get feed spiritually not just with the Sacraments, but the Bible too.I don’t do anthing half way, I’m either all in or all out. Does this make any sense?

I think sometimes Catholics are mistaken for being “cool” to others at the Mass. I mean, I go to the Mass for Christ and try to focus all my attention towards Him and the Mass. Because I recognize this in myself, I always try to stay in front of the Church afterwards and say hello to as many as I can, shaking hands and exchanging hugs. It’s something I learned from a hymn.

**Let there be peace on earth
And let it begin with me;
Let there be peace on earth,
The peace that was meant to be.

Let peace begin with me,
Let this be the moment now;
With every step I take,
Let this be my solemn vow:

Let there be peace on earth
And let it begin with me;
Let there be peace on earth,
The peace that was meant to be.

To take each moment and live each moment
In peace eternally.
Let there be peace on earth
And let it begin with me.**

I live in a tourist driven area and our congregation changes from week to week. Another thing I have done was to join the Knights of Columbus. We take turns each weekend preparing coffee and donuts, or other treats, to give everyone an opportunity to fellowship after the Mass. It really works well, but people have to come over to the parish hall to experience the fellowship.

Being a new Knight, I tried to attend every meeting and I took it upon myself to start a recruitment drive to get as many into the organization as possible. I was somewhat successful and I’ve had alot of the Knights tell me I was a breath of fresh air that was needed to revive the council. After a little more than a year, and after making the 3rd degree, several brothers came up to me this weekend (it was my turn for coffee and treats) and told me they missed me at the last meeting. I had ambulance duty and couldn’t make it. Anyways, they told me they had voted and wanted me to be the Grand Knight for the council. I thought they were joking with me and told them I knew the elections weren’t until June. They said, we know, but we’ve all voted on our nominees and we want you to be the Grand Knight. I told them, I am going to be on schedule alot during the summer and may not be able to attend the meetings for a few months and I’m considering paramedic school in August. They didn’t care, they said I would have a deputy to act in my absence and they wanted me to be the leader.

My wife works most every weekend and normally she can only attend the Saturday Mass. I always try to go with her and I’ll go back on Sunday morning. The Church asked me to be an usher one Saturday because they were “short-handed”. Now, I’m one of the main usher on Saturdays, when I can attend.

I approached the priest once and volunteered in anyway I could. I’ve helped decorate the Church for the different seasons and I’ve cleaned the Church afterwards. I’ve tried to say yes to anything the Church has asked of me.

I attend the Bible studies, prayer meetings, soup dinners during Lent, and all the other gatherings I can make.

My point is, sometimes we have to start the “warming” process with others. I think it’s possible to have two people view each other as “cool”, because not everyone is outgoing. If one breaks the ice, the ice will melt, or in other words, “Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me.”

You will always run into some who are actually “cool” and withdrawn, but we can’t see what makes them that way. From personal experience, even they will warm up to someone eventually, if we keep reaching out to them. If they don’t, they’ve given us another reason to talk to the Lord, pray for them.

My wife and I only started attending this parish a year and a half ago and now we’re really a family member with them, closer than I ever thought we would be.

While I appreciate your compliments of me being “educated”, I don’t view myself as that educated. My education came from my faith and reaching out to others and I feel God has blessed me for it…

I’m like you, I’m an in or out type person. It takes more work to be an “in” but, it’s well worth the effort.

You and your family are in my prayers.

 

[Pater_Familias]

Hmmm Idols? Graven images ? Sounds familiar. Didn’t the ark of the covenant have graven images as well. I think there were winged creatures on each corner. Of course by your self serving warped logic that makes them idol worshippers too right?

Come on this is the same (yawn) old story. WE DO NOT BOW TO IDOLS. I BOW TO MY LORD TRULY PRESENT IN THE TABERNACLE AND ON THE ALTAR.

**

aggghhh must I go on?..Do you not think anyone bowing down in front of a statue knows that? Do you think that even when Pagans bow down in front of a statue that they really think that the statue is actually going to physically hear them, come to life, and listen to them? Of course not genius!!!

Its obvious that the statue itself symbolizes something outside of itself!! Thats the point.
The Bible makes it clear that we can’t even make statues symbolizing heavenly things and bow in front of it…

Leviticus 26:1

Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.

A stone is still a freakin stone unless you give it meaning! Just like your marble and stone Mary is just marble and stone unless you give it meaning. God commands us that we can’t give even stones a spiritual or heavenly meaning for bowing!!.

I’m not even going to expand on claims of animate Mary statues coming to life and crying real tears and bleeding real blood…

how else would you interpret Leviticus? That verse is more clear than your Mary statue you have at home! I suggest you re evaluate that and take it for what it is and if you can’t understand that simple context it contains then that is your personal problem…I would pray on it…And you blame me for taking things out of context? Half the stuff that the RC does aren’t even in the Bible so they bust out the “apostolic succession and tradition” card…

so let me ask you this: yes Mary was full of grace, the Mother of God, but where did you get the idea on how that translates to “lets make an image of her, honor her, and bow to her statue?”…it certainly wasn’t in the Bible…so what context did you extract that from?

what’s worse then taking things out of context is adding context that’s not even there to begin with! I’ll bet you probably do that a lot…“fill in the gap theology”**

 

[1beleevr]

Interesting I have been thinking just this week about; symbols,parables,allegories, metaphors, and such! The Bible is full of symbolism, just look at Ephesians 6:10-18! The breastplate of righteousness, the “belt” of truth, the “shield” of faith, etc. And Christ being depicted as a lion and a lamb! And communion; wine and grape juice are both from the “fruit of the vine”, yet some Christians are rebuked for using grape juice instead of wine! And shouldn’t we use unleavened bread, as Jesus told of how yeast in bread, was like sin, and that it coul infect the whole loaf! When Jesus, and His disciples celebrated the Passover meal, also known as the Last Supper, and shared the wine and bread, didn’t each disciple drink of the wine, and eat the bread, which Christ said was His broken body(not literally, of course) And I know that the catholic church believes that John 6:51-59, is the basis for the Holy Communion, or Eucharist! What I would like to know is,1) if all of the disciples drank from the cup, why is the catholic priest, the only one who drinks from it at mass,2) Isn’t the wafer(symbol of Jesus’s body) and the wine(symbol of Jesus’s blood) the same as grape juice, and unleavened bread? Was the practice of transsubstantiation began by the apostles, or is it more modern?

 

[1beleevr]

mdk: Thanks for the invitation! I was a bit confused by your reference to Mary Magdelene(the first person to see the risen Christ)!I hope that you arenot thinking that she was the alleged adultress from John 8 This woman was never identified by name, and I believe that Mary Magdelene, became a staunch and devoted follower of Christ, after He rid her of seven demons!And don’t be so anal about your religion I am not condemning"true" doctrines, nor do I rejoice in bad news about any denomination! Rather, I feel sadness, and am shocked; being as it seems that yours has had it’s share of bad news

 

[1beleevr]

ppasa316: You are correct about the command or directive to confess your sins to a priest not being in the Bible,nor was it ever explicitly spoken by our Saviour! For those who believe that John 20:23, is the basis for the confessing sins to a priest, I would submit that the poerative word here is “If”! Jesus says, “If you forgive anyone’s sins, they are forgiven, if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven”! What if I forgive those who have done me wrong? They are forgiven, right?

 

[wisdomseeker]

ppasa316: You are correct about the command or directive to confess your sins to a priest not being in the Bible,nor was it ever explicitly spoken by our Saviour! For those who believe that John 20:23, is the basis for the confessing sins to a priest, I would submit that the poerative word here is “If”! Jesus says, “If you forgive anyone’s sins, they are forgiven, if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven”! What if I forgive those who have done me wrong? They are forgiven, right?

there is a difference between what Jesus said to the people in general that we must forgive one another or our Father would not fogive us and the command and authority that Jesus gave to the Apostles. "whosoever sins you forgive it will be forgiven, whosoever sins you retain, it will be retained. this is a command given to the Apostles only and their successors and not to all of us. remember the encounter that Jesus had with the Pharisses at one time? Jesus said to them, “if you have said that you did not know, your sins would be forgiven, but since you claim you know your sins will remain.” Jesus had the power to fogive sins, did He not? remember, to Jesus was given power and authority, then you see Jesus given authority to His disciples and not to everyone. that is why Apostolic succession is so important. this succession is important because it carries on the authority of the Apostles given by Christ to the end of times so our generation today would have the same teachings as the generation of that time had.

remember also what happened to saphire and her husband? what happened to them for lying to the HS? what did St Peter say them ?

Never before has there been so much learning, and yet so little knowledge of the truth.