Protestants listen up

[MDK]

Interesting I have been thinking just this week about; symbols,parables,allegories, metaphors, and such! The Bible is full of symbolism, just look at Ephesians 6:10-18! The breastplate of righteousness, the “belt” of truth, the “shield” of faith, etc. And Christ being depicted as a lion and a lamb! And communion; wine and grape juice are both from the “fruit of the vine”, yet some Christians are rebuked for using grape juice instead of wine! And shouldn’t we use unleavened bread, as Jesus told of how yeast in bread, was like sin, and that it coul infect the whole loaf! When Jesus, and His disciples celebrated the Passover meal, also known as the Last Supper, and shared the wine and bread, didn’t each disciple drink of the wine, and eat the bread, which Christ said was His broken body(not literally, of course) And I know that the catholic church believes that John 6:51-59, is the basis for the Holy Communion, or Eucharist! What I would like to know is,1) if all of the disciples drank from the cup, why is the catholic priest, the only one who drinks from it at mass,2) Isn’t the wafer(symbol of Jesus’s body) and the wine(symbol of Jesus’s blood) the same as grape juice, and unleavened bread? Was the practice of transsubstantiation began by the apostles, or is it more modern?

The idea of transubstantiaion was blieved by the Apostles. It was formally defined later. All of your other confusion has been addressed already.

 

[ppasa316]

Yeah, I guess we just need to recreate an upper room where Jesus first instituted the Sacrament of Reconciliation… giving the power to forgive sin in His name to the Apostles. Coupled with their un-recinded power to bind and lose, we have the ongoing Sacrament in full force.

Only the names have changed to protect the guilty.

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Jesus never gave anyone the authority to forgive sins to be reconciled in God’s Word means to bring people to acknowledge their sin and to be reconciled back to Christ.

 

[MDK]

…Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth!!! B-I-B-L-E!

If one does not understand what is actually in the Bible, then what kind of instructions do they have… good or bad?

When in need of interpretation, go back to the author… in this case the Catholic Church, who authored the NT, and with God’s oversignt and authority included the full OT in the Bible. The Church knows what is in the Bible. Others can read, but they do not have a proper understanding of revealed truth. It’s not their fault in trying, but no one could without the guide built by God to do exactly this.

 

[MDK]

You still haven’t provided any scripture where the disciples forgave someone of their sins. Now you go on to Baptism. One thing at a time. Please again provide scripture to support your claim. I did. Where in God’s Word do you find anyone other than Christ forgiving sins. If you can’t just say so and we can move on to another topic.

The Catholic Church authored the Scriptures you say you believe in. Why do you think you know more and better than the author established and protected by God?

 

[MDK]

I have given you plenty of scriptures.

The Catholic Church authored the Bible, and knows what is in it. All you’ve really showed are two things. You’ve showed us Scriptures that support Catholicism. Secondly, you’ve showed us that you do not understand Scriptures.

The debate is not with me it is with Christ.

No, the debate is with you. None of us debates the words of Christ as recorded, but you debate against the meanings of the words Christ used… you debate what Christ taught. We are protecting the proper meanings of the words and phrases used by Christ.

 

[MDK]

I don’t care if you are offended. Sometimes the truth hurts. If it will get you to study the meaning of God’s Word, so be it. I also used Ron Rhodes as an example. Do stand by anyone else’s post. Stand by what you say. I do. Use some of that common sense on yourself. If you don’t like the response that we Christians give you, don’t answer back. I will continue to stand for what I have posted and the scriptures I have provided

We wish you would join in with the truth. The truth does not damage or oppose Catholicism in any way. The truth is something you have your own version of, and not the version the Apostles understood. The truth is devastating to what you are promoting.

 

[MDK]

Brother I hate to say it but don’t waste to much time debating Prodigal on this issue. You could show Him the bible in person and he would still disagree with you. As my Pastor said “sometime its best not to spend too much time on a person that is never going to see the truth anyway.” It is time to move on. As a former Catholic for 33 yrs I know what it is like to try and defend your faith but never really knowing the truth. Thank God I and my family left the church and have been blessed for the last 10 years attending a bibled based church Calvary Chapel. Be Blessed and continue the good fight of faith.

This is richly ironic. You oppose the truth and don’t listen, yet falsely condemn another. If you are in agreement with your pastor, then neither does your pastor know the truth about Scriptures. No one is debating the words in Scriptures here. What is being debated is the meaning one derives from it. The meanings you promote were not taught by Christ. This is where the real issue is.

BTW, thank the Catholic Church that you even have a Bible from which to derive your false meanings.

 

[phoenix3212]

Jesus never gave anyone the authority to forgive sins to be reconciled in God’s Word means to bring people to acknowledge their sin and to be reconciled back to Christ.

"(Jesus) said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, 'Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.’" Jn 20:21-23

Jesus indeed gave his apostles the authority to forgive sins.

 

[MrS]

"(Jesus) said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, 'Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.’" Jn 20:21-23

Jesus indeed gave his apostles the authority to forgive sins.

thanks phoenix…

I just came in and saw the question and was about to answer. I figured somebody (even if it was one who knew only the basics of the Gospel passages) could answer that question.

Coincidentally that was a passage read at Mass today. I would bet that very few Catholics could name the chapter and verse but they KNOW the words and what they mean.

non-Catholics, on the other hand, can quote the verse number… but either misunderstand a lot, or just reply “the Bible doesn’t say that…”

.

 

[MDK]

…Thank God I and my family left the church and have been blessed for the last 10 years attending a bibled based church Calvary Chapel. Be Blessed and continue the good fight of faith.

It is no thanks to God that you’re in a “Bible based” church. When the insightful observer steps back and looks at your “church,” they see that the teachings are really based on a man’s interpretation of the Bible. This man reads the Bible and comes away with his own interpretations.

How do you know this is right?

What would you do if you disagreed, go to another “church” of your liking?

It’s clear that the “church” you attend is only loosely based on the Catholic Bible. It’s first and foremost based on a man’s interpretation. Unless this man has apostolic succession and is in union with the Pope, this man is not guaranteed protection of the Holy Spirit on these teachings. Is the pastor’s name in Scriptures, for instance? Where is this, because I missed the part where Christ handed out Bibles and said do whatever you feel is in your hearts, no matter if they differ with the Father.

 

[MDK]

Did you ever notice these so-called “Bible Based Churches” seem to be free from attack? I wonder why that is. Could it be that the Devil has no reason to attack things that are already seperate from God? ANd then we can ask why did you leave the Church? Was it after a long process of discernment looking for the Truth? Somehow, I doubt it. The priest, or your Bishop, or the Pope said something you didn’t like. Or perhaps you came across something in the Catechism (I am assuming you have actually read it) that you did not want to submit to. So you went church shopping. ANd you found one that you could live with. One that would let you say “I go to church”, but it didn’t do anything too cahllenge you. One where you had no mandate to become more Christlike. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so. A search for the Truth never leads one away from the Catholic Church. Of coursr it might not be your fault. It is no secret that catechesis has been quite poor over the last 30-40 years.

Very true, CW, The devil has no urgent need to infiltrate a “bible based” church (which is not really based on our Bible), because the gates of hell have already prevailed. These people are being taught false doctrines, that could jeapordize their salvation, keeping them ignorant and spiteful of God’s one true Church.

 

[MDK]

That’s a gross generalization that simply isn’t true.

It is true. All “churches” outside the Catholic Church are built on men’s interpretations of what they glean from our Scriptures. It’s all about what they want to make into faith and morals, and not what God did.

 

[MDK]

My challenge to you, CW, would be to answer this: I lived in 3 counties before I lived in one that even had a Catholic Church in it. It would seem that if you believe that the Catholic Church is the one true Church, you would be building them everywhere.

I would say that not only is catechesis poor in Catholic Churches (and for that matter other Christian communions as well), but evangelism in Catholicism in American is non-existent.

And despite your objections, the Catholic Church is God’s one true Church… always will be until the end of time.

For instance, you know who created your “church” and it was a person who was not also God. The true Church was created by Jesus as He died on the cross, and that one Church teaches the same things today, as it did after getting her legs at Pentecost. It is the Catholic Church, with the successor of Peter as visible head, appointed by Christ. Ignorance of this, is simply ignorance of what Christ did.

 

[MDK]

rinnie: as much as I hate to disagree with you on the issue of the crucifix, with the corpus on it, I must! While on the Cross, Jesus said,“It is finished!” He didn’t say, “Every time you sin, I’m climbing back up on this Cross!” Ever win a ribbon or trophy for something, anything? And everytime you look at that ribbon/trophy, you smile, rememberingthe event? That"s how it is with me and the empty Cross:thumbsup: Sure, the Cross is a symbol of torture, just as the unleavened bread, and the wine, are symbols of Christ’s body, and His life-saving blood! So, you keep wearing the crucifix, with Jesus’s body on it, and I’ll keep wearing mine without, and we both will remember the horror of His cruel death, so that we could have eternal life:thumbsup:

This is sadly ignorance of Christ. Christ drank the fourth cup of the Passover, and said it is finished. Actually, it’s more like it is consummated. The Church, His Bride is getting ready to be born from His side. It is ignorance to say “once and done” becasue it is “once for all time.” It is neverending. How can you redo something that never ends.

 

[MDK]

rinnie: And I am equally sad that you feel the way you do

I am happy that rinnie feels that way. It shows being in line with reality.

 

[MDK]

Catholicism falls under the pale of Christianity. Many Castholics do not know Christ al beit many do.

Catholicism is Christianity. All else, the flavors claiming to base their teachings on our Bible, are sadly watered down and weak by comparison.

 

[MDK]

The search for truth lead me away from the Catholic Church.
As for bible based churches arent persecuted? Have you had your head buried in the sand? The whole culture of evolution, moral relativism, secular humanism is at war with bible based Christianity.

Your own “truth” maybe. The Truth built the Catholic Church. It is His Church.

 

[MDK]

Prodical lives on this forum and will attack but will file a formal complaint if you attack back, be carefull. 90% of his scripture citings are out of context. Yet he will claim his is basing on scripture, he will continue to ask you questions but never address any of yours.

Just because you disagree, doesn’t make it false. In fact, Prodigal has done a wonderful job of presenting authentic Bible teachings. It’s just when people make their own interpretations and fall away from truth, they will not be able to recognize truth. I hope you come to the truth of Christ, which is well conveyed by Prodigal and others who are in line with the Catholic Church.

 

[MDK]

“Confess your sins one to another”

Does this sound like a Catholic confessional. No it sounds like an AA meeting. When was the last time the lady in the pew in front of you confessed her sins to you or you to her? When was the last time your bishop confessed his sins to the congregation. This has been lost in Christianity not only by Catholics but by other groups as well.
But dont use this verse to claim adherence in the confessional both because it just desnt fit.

Sin is not private. All sin has a public element. It’s not just between you and God, but also the person(s) you have trespassed against.

 

[MDK]

Jesus never gave anyone the authority to forgive sins to be reconciled in God’s Word means to bring people to acknowledge their sin and to be reconciled back to Christ.

Wrong again. Your interpretations of the word of God are not what the Apostles understood. Neither are they what God’s one Church teaches today, as the Apostles taught then.