Protestants listen up

[1beleevr]

rinnie: The Peace of Christ, allows one to be calm in situations, where once one was anxious, nervous, unsettled, or in your case, losing patience with someone who was irritating them I mean just read post#926 CW Betts is furious with me, hurling insult after insult, judgement after judgement! And how did I respond? Well, before I knew the Peace of Christ, I probably would have fired off an equally nasty reply Ever hear that saying,“Like water off a duck’s back”, or “Turn the other cheek”. People are going to disagree with you rinnie, hate to burst your bubble! But it doesn’t mean that we all necessarily hate catholics, because we don’t agree with them! I am glad to hear about your husband, though! Sounds as though you didn’t put the burden of converting on him; but let him choose for himself. I always wondered about that, because I have a catholic friend, who has been married for nearly 38 years, and said that his wife has not fully embraced the catholic lifestyle, and doesn’t appear inclined to! Is the non-catholic in the relationship obligated to convert, or can they live their whole lives together, as members of their respective religions? Happily, my wife and I are equally yoked, both non-denominational:thumbsup: What a true joy it is to serve the Lord as husband and wife, doing street ministry, outreaches for Christ, feeding the homeless, and many other wonderful acts of service to Our God!

 

[1beleevr]

Well, hello, CW: how are you, besides angry? If I didn’t know any better, I’d be inclined to believe that you’re calling me a Sunday-only Christian But I don’t always “dress up”! And actually, on any given third or fourth Tuesday of any month, I may be found at the Bethany Homeless Center dishing up a hot meal, along with a generous helping of prayer, and aside order of evangelism The second Wednesday, may find me at the MarketPlace mall, passing out Bibles, witnessing and praying with people! And of course, two Saturdays a month, I am knocking on doors in economically depressed areas, delivering food boxes, prayer, and if the Holy Spirit opens a door, evangelism(Matthew 25:31-46, Matthew 28:19-20). And lest we forget, Sunday afternoons, I will be at Evergreen Healthcare Center for worship, fellowship and sharing God’s love! Sprinled in with all that, are outreaches for Christ, every other month:thumbsup: Ever participate in any service opportunities like these, CW? As far as the Cross issue is concerned, please let us respectfully acknowledge each other’s choices! I have stated my reasons for not wearing a crucifix, and you have rebuked me for my opinion And no one has answered the question about Mark 1:4! Not sure if rinnie was using that to justify confessing to a priest or not! Where exactly is it written that not confessing is a mortal sin?

 

[Zundrah]

I’ve been reading this thread now for ages… it says prodestants listen; but what exactly is a prodestant? Is a prodestant just a christian who is not a catholic?

 

[Zundrah]

But the problem is on what authority do you go by to reject the teachings of the Catholic Church. If you say that you are a Catholic and you left the Catholic Faith your soul is in grave danger.

Hmm, why do you need to expose them…? It is pointless. Catholics know christ so why bother trying to strip them of their faith? I don’t understant your attemps. Explain please…
Any way, as to this guy (the catholic that responded to the christians statement), his soul is not in grave danger but you are right in persuading him to leave the catholic church in peace.
What is the problem people? Don’t we have enough trouble from athius, e.c.t.?
We both as christians and catholics all know the sacrifice of our Lord and we have recieved his blood in mercy - that is all that matters so stop waging war with each other.
And anyway why was this thread opened??? “Prodestants listen up!?!?!?!?” What is all that about?:heaven::angel1::bible1:
And can a catholic please tell me why it is so important that christians rejoin the catholic church? The pope once said to prodestants; “You have done well, but it is your duty to become catholic.” Why?

 

[Jasonlimsa]

This thread is really interesting… thanks to all who have been giving so much (name removed by moderator)ut.

I’m a born and bred protestant… Baptist actually. Now that the “storm” in the middle of the thread seems to have blown over, can I bring y’all back to the first topic of the thread with some questions please?

1. Is there biblical foundation for venerating Mary? Just because Mary says she will be called blessed does not mean that God is saying we should treat her as an intercessor for our prayers and supplications right? When my first daughter arrived, my immediate reaction was that all my friends, family, and colleagues would “call me lucky or fortunate”… could this perhaps have been the expression of joy from Mary’s heart rather than an attempt to monopolise the veneration of generations to come?

Yes Jesus answered Mary’s request, but as a filial son I often answer my Mom’s request too. However, I happen to be working in the corporate world and if my mom were to ask me to do something that may not be “right” in the business sense, I may be forced to advice her that I will not be submitting to her request in that sense. Same thing for Mary, Jesus’ willingness to change water into wine at the wedding of Cana does not in any way reflect that he will be willing to cure my Aunt from cancer just because we ask of it through Mary right? Perhaps there may be a “bigger picture” for Jesus not wanting to cure her…

How is it that Mary has become elevated from “virgin” to “perfect”? Can someone explain how the phrase “Hail Mary Full of Grace” imply perfection please? I am not doubting it, I just want to know why… cos I’ve not seen anything in the bible that points to Mary being Perfect. And if she is, than it becomes less of a big deal if Jesus is perfect as well isn’t it? For all we know, there may be other perfect people in the world too…

1. Another Question not related to Mary.
   If Peter was indeed the Rock on which the Church is to be built, then why is almost 3 quarters of the NT written by Paul??? Paul was inspired by Jesus directly. there is no indication that his writing is inspired or taught by Peter. So is it correct to say that Paul writes and Peter interprets what Paul writes in his letters? How strange…

Thanks for the replies in advance. I’m not antagonistic towards RC, in fact i’ve attended a few masses and cathecism classes already. I just want to know…

 

[rinnie]

Hmm, why do you need to expose them…? It is pointless. Catholics know christ so why bother trying to strip them of their faith? I don’t understant your attemps. Explain please…
Any way, as to this guy (the catholic that responded to the christians statement), his soul is not in grave danger but you are right in persuading him to leave the catholic church in peace.
What is the problem people? Don’t we have enough trouble from athius, e.c.t.?
We both as christians and catholics all know the sacrifice of our Lord and we have recieved his blood in mercy - that is all that matters so stop waging war with each other.
And anyway why was this thread opened??? “Prodestants listen up!?!?!?!?” What is all that about?:heaven::angel1::bible1:
And can a catholic please tell me why it is so important that christians rejoin the catholic church? The pope once said to prodestants; “You have done well, but it is your duty to become catholic.” Why?

Well first of all that is not what I said at all. You need to read what I said. I said if you are Catholic and then you turn away from the faith your soul is in grave danger. I am off today and have a fun a busy day planned. Every Wed, is Mothers day, We run, shop eat lunch etc. So what I said to the Catholic who responded to my statement is in the bible. So maybe unstead of arguing with me take the day and see it you can find it. ITs in there. Will get back to you later to see if you did.

As far as the name of my thread, it was when you start a thread you must name it, so that was the first thing that came to mind. Its really no big deal, Now as far as any Christian joining the CC and why is it so important Wow! I think that your best bet would be to get some books on the Pope. Let the Man speak for himself. I promise you, you will see for yourself. He is amazing! But I will say one thing, God wants us to be all brothers in the same faith, the way it started out before we got separated. Thats one clue.

But see if you can find the scripture of what the Pope said. Have a great day!

 

[rinnie]

I’ve been reading this thread now for ages… it says prodestants listen; but what exactly is a prodestant? Is a prodestant just a christian who is not a catholic?

That is simple a protestant is anyone that is not Catholic. A Protestant is someone that protests the Catholic CHurch. It is any Religion except Catholic.

 

[rinnie]

Yes there is a foundation for venerating Mary it is found in the Church. Mary is perfect because she is without sin. Mary is perfect in the way that she has honored God and obeyed him in everyway,

We ask the angels and saint’s to pray for us because it is the teaching’s of the Apostles, Tell me, Do you believe in the apostles teaching’s. Do you understand them? Do you believe in the Apostles Creed?

 

[rinnie]

rinnie: The Peace of Christ, allows one to be calm in situations, where once one was anxious, nervous, unsettled, or in your case, losing patience with someone who was irritating them I mean just read post#926 CW Betts is furious with me, hurling insult after insult, judgement after judgement! And how did I respond? Well, before I knew the Peace of Christ, I probably would have fired off an equally nasty reply Ever hear that saying,“Like water off a duck’s back”, or “Turn the other cheek”. People are going to disagree with you rinnie, hate to burst your bubble! But it doesn’t mean that we all necessarily hate catholics, because we don’t agree with them! I am glad to hear about your husband, though! Sounds as though you didn’t put the burden of converting on him; but let him choose for himself. I always wondered about that, because I have a catholic friend, who has been married for nearly 38 years, and said that his wife has not fully embraced the catholic lifestyle, and doesn’t appear inclined to! Is the non-catholic in the relationship obligated to convert, or can they live their whole lives together, as members of their respective religions? Happily, my wife and I are equally yoked, both non-denominational:thumbsup: What a true joy it is to serve the Lord as husband and wife, doing street ministry, outreaches for Christ, feeding the homeless, and many other wonderful acts of service to Our God!

Hi 1beleeve, I don’t think first of all you can bust my bubble. I never said people would not agree with me. If I believed that I would not be here. Second of all I do not feel I have lost patience with anyone. If so maybe you could show me. I just said I would leave one person to another because that person never answers my questions. IT was really a JOKE! You know humor, huh huh But I do think its ironic how we ask questions and never get a answer. Fair is fair. But I have asked that person time after time the same question and never get a response. But I don’t want to talk thur you to her, so I will drop it.

Now as far as patience goes, and people getting upset if I may say you have been goating C.W, Betts this whole thread. You got your point across but you continue to make it. You need to practice what you preach. C.W. has laid off, but you wont. You made a point AGAIN to refer to his anger in this post that you sent me, and made it a point just in case he missed it to go after him again. Thats not nice. CW is very strong in his faith, and does take it seriously. I personally admire that! For you CW:flowers: So instead of judging others in being a Christian, Lets practice what we preach. You said look at this post and look at that post how did I respond. I see how you responded, its quite clear. You won’t let it go. You pat yourself on the back and then you continue to pick on CW. ITs quite clear actually.

 

[rinnie]

Now for your last question a protestant is never pushed to join the faith. Father would never accept that. The only reason a person converts is because they want to. If I would have pushed my husband he would not have been as strong a Catholic as he is. SOmetimes I think he is stronger than me at times.

That is why before they can join the Church and receive the Body of Christ they must receive the Sacraments. They must go to RCIA so they know what they are getting into. And must embrace it completely. Many have gone to the classes and said its not for me. Thats fine. But many many have converted and can really teach the faith, let me tell you. Is amazing!

when my husband and I got married my husband knew NOTHING of the faith. He said it was NOTHING like he was told it was. He said that he never knew how much of the bible and teachings of Christ he did not know until the Church. Confession was his hardest. Then after he went a few times he started to see what it was all about. He saw what a gift it really is.

Funny about anxiety and that was really why this thread was started. My Dad always said go the the Blessed Mother which is why I started this thread and you read all that. Anyway that was always a way of life in my house and lighting candles and having her pray for us kids and now my kids. ANyway when I am overwhelmed with my kids I go to her. And light a candle and she prays for them. SO SO many miracles have happend. I will tell you someday. Anyway to get to the point we were have alot of trouble with my son. My husband said to me, you won’t believe this. He said I couldn’ take the stress anymore and found myself at work in my mind praying the Hail Mary. He said I was so sick to my stomach that I was getting pains in my chest. I said its stress, worry. He said anyway I found myself praying the Hail Mary and exactly one hour later its okay. I can not explain it to you, but its okay. I know its going to work out. It is like someone came over me, and took all the anxiety, fear, out of me. And replaced it with a calm, quiet, beautiful feeling. I said yep thats her. Thats the Blessed Mother. IT could only be her sending Jesus to you. Thats how it works. I said you have to go thru it to believe it huh. He said I have been married to you for 28 years and this is the first time I really did what you did and asked her for help. That way, and its just amazing. Thats all I can say. I can see why you and your Dad are like you are now. I said yep. Or it could be one other thing. He said what? I said how do you feel now. he said wonderful, peaceful. I just know everythings gonna be okay. I said has anything changed from the situation yet. He said No. I said one of two things her prayers worked. Or you got to have the nervous breakdown that you so clearly deserved The Blessed Mother can come to you in a way that only a Mother can. Thats all I can say. That is why I know God picked her to be the Mother of Jesus and all of US!

 

[guanophore]

I am not talking to all but you seem to continue with the same issuses we have already discussed. Like I said I have already provided you scriptures and you rejected them. But if you want to continue going round and round go ahead. As a former Catholic I will continue to provide scriptures to others.:thumbsup:Like I said if you want to go round and round lets do it because i feel some of these interpretations that you give are false. As a Christian i will continue to expose them.

You may wish to rethink your membership in CAF, in that case the, ppasa. CAF exists to provide Catholic answers. It is not provided as a venue for you “prove” that Catholicism has “false” beliefs that need to be “exposed” by your rendering of the Scriptures through the extrabibical doctrine of SS. If you are here to evangelize Catholics to your “bible based” thinking and faith, then you are in the wrong place.

 

[guanophore]

in Mark 1:4, who does Mark say those, who were being baptized, turned to for forgiveness? I’m like some other non-catholics; I haven’t found anything in the sayings of Christ, that tell us Christians to confess sins to a priest?

This makes very good sense. I think it is a very common conclusion among those whose Revelation from the Apostles is limited to the bible.
Perhaps you dont’ realize that the word “priest” is a truncation of the word “presbyter” in the NT. The modern day Catholic (and Orthodox) priest has the same duties as the NT presbyter, because that is the origin of the office. Given that, I am curious how you understand the passage in James.

James 5:14-17
14 Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15 and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.

This is the earliest recording of what the Latin Rite has called “extreme unction” or the sacrament of the healing of the sick.

Would you not agree that elders are called because one of the reasons they are elders is their experience and walk in the Lord, and hopefully, their holiness of life? This is why the reference to “the prayer of the righteous man”.

It seems clear from the passage that the candidate for annointing confesses his sins. The belief of the Apostles is that hidden sin produces sickness. Now, if you were going to confess your sins for another, why would you not confess them to the person that Jesus had authorized to forgive them in His name?

I do see in 1John 1:9, that he says(John), For IF we confess our sins unto HIM, He is faithful to forgive us, and cleanse us of all wickedness:thumbsup:And I can't speak for all non-catholics, but I do not believe that IF we confess our sins to each other(James 5:16), that they are forgiven! only God can forgive sins.

People can forgive sins too, because if we could not, Jesus would not have instructed us to do so in the Lord’s prayer, and otherwise. However, I think we will be in agreement that this forgiveness is between people, not between ourselves and God directly. God only can forgive offenses against Himself, though every offense against “the least of my brethren” is also an offense against Him.

Jesus gave the power to forgive sins to the Apostles and they to their successors. If you reject this, then some flipping and dancing around scripture is needed, and also more flipping and dancing around history. If Jesus did not intend for the Apostles to forgive sins, why did He tell them they had that authority? Also, if Jesus did not intend for them to pass this authority on to their successors, why didn’t He prevent them, or correct them from doing so?

If I share with fellow Christians, about a sin, it is to receive mercy, and support, instead of judgement or condemnation!

Is this what you believe happens in the sacrament of reconciliation? judgement and condemnation?

But usually, by the time I confess a sin to a fellow believer, I have already confessed to God! I should have actually said that Jesus is my middle man; He pleads my case before the Father, when I enter the throneroom of grace!

Yes, the priest acts " in the person of Christ" or literally “in the face of Christ” (prosopon) = with God’s face.

think as far as the topic of the crucifix, or no crucifix, we are now beginning to beat a “horse”, that appears to be on life support You believe in wearing a crucifix, I do not! The empty Cross to me, shouts V-I-C-T-O-R-Y!!! Every time I see it, it reminds me that my Saviour defeated death, and sin! We are no longer slaves to sin, and have victory over death! But, if it is the doctrine of the catholic church, to wear a crucifix, or to have one displayed in the sanctuary, then that is their choice! You do not have the authority to tell others, that they have no unity with the Cross, because they choose not to wear a crucifix:thumbsup:

It is great that you feel solidarity with the cross. Catholics wear it because the power is in the crucifixion. To cross, no crown. Jesus instructs us to pick up our cross daily, this is a phrase used of a condemned person. There was no amnesty once a person has picked up their cross. They were dead to the world,a nd the world to them. That is probably a topic for another thread.

Gal 3:1-2
3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?

The Church from the Apostles has publicly portrayed Christ as crucified since the beginning. It is a grievious image, indeed, but it is effective in getting across the message that “Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” John 15:12-13

This is a message that just does not get across quite as well with an “empty” cross.

 

[guanophore]

But the problem is on what authority do you go by to reject the teachings of the Catholic Church. If you say that you are a Catholic and you left the Catholic Faith your soul is in grave danger.

I think it is clear that she never really was Catholic. Her story reminds me a lot of myself. I, too, sat in the pews for years, taking Eucharist in a state of mortal sin, “bored” with the Mass, unable to hear the word of God. My excuse for leaving the Church was that I was 'spiritually starving". Now, when a person can starve with so much food in front of them, it is pretty much clear that it is the person themselves, not perceiving the food, who has the problem. God was gracious to me, though, He knew that I needed to be evangelized, and the Catechesis I receivedhad failed to do this for me. I was yearning for God, and His word. I left the CC for a Southern Baptist youth fellowship, and it was there that I learned to read and appreciate the Scripture. Let ppsasa be in your prayers, for God is merciful, and no one that calls upon His name will be lost.

 

[guanophore]

And no one has answered the question about Mark 1:4!

Sorry, I could not find it. Do you not believe that all sins are forgiven in baptism?

Not sure if rinnie was using that to justify confessing to a priest or not! Where exactly is it written that not confessing is a mortal sin?

The Apostles taught that there were two kinds of sins, mortal and non-mortal (venial). Mortal sins kill the Life of the soul by driving out the Grace that He has poured into our hearts. It is these sins that “crucfy the son of God afresh”.

Venial sins can be confessed through prayer, but mortal sins require confession to the elder (priest). This is why the Apostle states that we should not “pray” for mortal sins. We can, of course, but unless we recieve the remission of sins from those appointed by Christ, the sin is retained.

1 John 5:16-17
16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

 

[guanophore]

I’ve been reading this thread now for ages… it says prodestants listen; but what exactly is a prodestant? Is a prodestant just a christian who is not a catholic?

This is a very good question, and an excellent example of why modern day Protestants cannot be charged with the sins of heresy.

Most non-Catholic Christians here in America are Protestants. In other areas of the world, many are Orthodox.

Welcome to CAF,a nd thanks for posting.

 

[guanophore]

And can a catholic please tell me why it is so important that christians rejoin the catholic church? The pope once said to prodestants; “You have done well, but it is your duty to become catholic.” Why?

This is another excellent question. Jesus only founded One Church, and only has One Body. It was His desire that we “all be One”. All those who are not Catholic have been separated from the One Church founded by Christ - usually through pride, arrogance, misunderstanding and a number of other human failings.

 

[guanophore]

I’m a born and bred protestant… Baptist actually. Now that the “storm” in the middle of the thread seems to have blown over, can I bring y’all back to the first topic of the thread with some questions please?

1. Is there biblical foundation for venerating Mary?

Welcome to CAF, Jasonlimsa, and thanks for your good question. One thing that is important to remember about Catholicism that is not the case for Protestants is that the Catholic faith is not “bible based” in the way Protestant religions are. The Catholic Church was founded by Christ, and the whole deposit of faith was complete before a word of it was ever written in the NT. The NT reflects what the Catholic Church believes and teaches because it was written by Catholics, but the Source of our faith is Christ.

In light of that, it is important to recognize that the veneration of Mary began before the NT was written. Veneration comes from the lips of the angel Gabiel, and from her cousin Elizabeth. These events were later recorded when the books of the NT were written some time after the church began.

Just because Mary says she will be called blessed does not mean that God is saying we should treat her as an intercessor for our prayers and supplications right? When my first daughter arrived, my immediate reaction was that all my friends, family, and colleagues would “call me lucky or fortunate”… could this perhaps have been the expression of joy from Mary’s heart rather than an attempt to monopolise the veneration of generations to come?

Why would it not?

James 5:16
The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.

The more righteous the soul, the more powerful the prayers.

However, I do agree with you that this was an expression of joy, and Mary would NEVER “attempt to monopolize” anything but Christ. Her soul “magnifies the Lord”, which means, when we look at Him from her eyes, we get a larger view.

Yes Jesus answered Mary’s request, but as a filial son I often answer my Mom’s request too. However, I happen to be working in the corporate world and if my mom were to ask me to do something that may not be “right” in the business sense, I may be forced to advice her that I will not be submitting to her request in that sense. Same thing for Mary, Jesus’ willingness to change water into wine at the wedding of Cana does not in any way reflect that he will be willing to cure my Aunt from cancer just because we ask of it through Mary right? Perhaps there may be a “bigger picture” for Jesus not wanting to cure her…

Yes, of course you are correct. However, Mary, with all those who have gone on to be “with the Lord”, cannot and does not pray or ask anything if God outside of His will, for her will is perfectly conformed to His, like ours will one day be.

How is it that Mary has become elevated from “virgin” to “perfect”?

She embodies God’s intention for all of us. He wants to perfect each of us, so that we are transformed from what we are now, into what He intended us to be.

Can someone explain how the phrase “Hail Mary Full of Grace” imply perfection please?

It is impossible for sin to exist where grace abides in fullness. Perfect in this context just means that she was the woman God created her to be, just like Eve was. However, Mary chose obedience, not disobedience.

I am not doubting it, I just want to know why… cos I’ve not seen anything in the bible that points to Mary being Perfect.

It is a good question, and perhaps I don’t understand how you mean the word. Do you believe God created Eve “perfect”, in the sense that she was exactly what He intended her to be?

And if she is, than it becomes less of a big deal if Jesus is perfect as well isn’t it? For all we know, there may be other perfect people in the world too…

No, it is no “less of a big deal”, because Jesus is Divine, and that is why He is able to give a perfect sacrifice.

1. Another Question not related to Mary.
   If Peter was indeed the Rock on which the Church is to be built, then why is almost 3 quarters of the NT written by Paul??? Paul was inspired by Jesus directly. there is no indication that his writing is inspired or taught by Peter. So is it correct to say that Paul writes and Peter interprets what Paul writes in his letters? How strange…

The importance of the ministries that God gives to us is not based upon “productivity” in the worldly sense of the word. Mary had a relatively finite ministry in the Kingdom, but it was one that no one else could do, or did do.

Peter is a Rock, but not the only Rock. Jesus is THE Rock. Peter’s statement was also a rock. Jesus gave Peter special gifts that He gave to no one else, so that Peter could do the duties given to him by God.

 

[jlhargus]

you either believe the Bible is the fully inspired, authoritative, infallible Word of God or you don’t. If not I challenge you to read the Bible apart from any outside source a see what you come up with.Remember the BEST commentary and authority on the Bible is…the Bible itself

Amen, the Bible is inspired, authoritative and inerrant Word of God. However, interpretations are not inerrant and to prove it, we have a myriad of continueously spliting, contradicting teachings from contentious sola scriptura denominations. All Claiming the SAME scriptures and being led by the SAME Holy Spirit into truth still spliting today. How many faith groups has sola scriptura brought together? None. How many has it divided? Who can keep count. By the way from which faith group did your denomenation or so called non-denomination split?

Sola scriptura, a tradition of men made a doctrine of God around 1521, it is nothing more than a Tower of Babel. Scattering people of faith into myriads of contentious groups, as they no longer speak the same faith language. Yes all scripture is inspired by God, but nowhere does scripture say, SCRIPTURE ONLY, and certainly not in 2Tm3:16. I challenge you to show me, if you think it does.

 

[1beleevr]

Guanophore: Ever hear a hymn entitled,“Nothing But the Blood?” When Christ died on the Cross, His blood which was shed, was what washed away our sins! All sin was forgiven on the Cross! Why do you believe that Christ was baptized(I believe it was full immersion)? I tend to believe that of course He was sinless, that it was an act of obedience to the Father! By the time we get to baptism, our sins have been forgiven, and the baptism seals the salvation! It is a public declaration of you intent to follow Jesus! And as for the crucifix, for me, a more profound, and goosebump producing image, is of Christ carrying His Cross! And if you’re on it, you sure can’t carry it! I still believe that John is talking about God, when he says, “For if we confess our sins unto Him, He is faithful to forgive!”

 

[1beleevr]

rinnie: It is quite commendable that you come to the defense of CW, but I am sure that he can take it as well as dish it out And as far as the issue of the Peace of Christ, I never meant it as a personal attack, or a criticism; just thinking out loud, remembering how I used to be before I had the Peace! And there is a lot of patting on the back going on in this forum, on both sides! I perceived by his abrasive statements, that CW was implying that, I only worship, and serve my God on Sunday; so I merely listed the ministies that I am regularly involved in! And it was not to glorify myself, but rather saying “Thank You, Lord for opening doors of opportunity for me to serve You by ministering to others! Read post#926 again, and tell me if you believe that it shows the love of Christ Do I have any hard feelings, over this post? Not really; I chuckled over some of the rants, but took a few days, composed what I believed to be a sufficient reply and sent it! One question, in one of your more recent posts, you said something to the effect of"the Father wouldn’t allow it!” Do you mean God wouldn’t allow it? He is the only one that I recognize as HOLY FATHER!!