Protestants & Marriage

[lvscandy]

Hey everyone,

          I first want to say I love this forum. I've learned so much, in such a short time.

I would like to know how the Catholic Church viewed women and marriage before the Protestant reformation. I’ve heard over and over again, that the Protestant Reformation brought equality to women, and that marriage became a good thing and not “despicable” as the Catholic Church taught.

Thanks
Aisha

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Hey everyone,

          I first want to say I love this forum. I've learned so much, in such a short time.

I would like to know how the Catholic Church viewed women and marriage before the Protestant reformation. I’ve heard over and over again, that the Protestant Reformation brought equality to women, and that marriage became a good thing and not “despicable” as the Catholic Church taught.

Thanks
Aisha

Well, we Orthodox have our issues with the Vatican on these issues, but it is odd that both the Vatican and the Orthodox have monastics and consider marriage a Holy Mystery/sacrament, whereas the Protestants don’t have monastics and don’t consider marriage a sacrament.

 

[1ke]

I would like to know how the Catholic Church viewed women and marriage before the Protestant reformation.

The same way it does today. The Church’s teaching has not changed.

I’ve heard over and over again, that the Protestant Reformation brought equality to women,

Really? In what way? Can you give examples? Who have you heard this “over and over” from? Define equality.

and that marriage became a good thing and not “despicable” as the Catholic Church taught.

Please provide the evidence that the Catholic Church taught marriage was “despicable.” Ever.

 

[Hope070408]

Something I learned on this forum was that the word obey was never part of the vows in a Catholic wedding ceremony, but was a Protestant thing.

 

[lvscandy]

Wanted to clarify, that I am Catholic. Just trying to get info.

The same way it does today. The Church’s teaching has not changed.

Awesome.

Really? In what way? Can you give examples? Who have you heard this “over and over” from? Define equality.
I’ve heard these arguments from friends, and from liberal feminists. They make the claim that the Catholic Church encouraged chastity over marriage, and that it was some how better. My friends claim that Martin Luther, was the one who changed that sentiment by saying that marriage was not a bad thing, but something very good, and equal to chastity.

Please provide the evidence that the Catholic Church taught marriage was “despicable.” Ever.

**I don’t believe that it does. I actually was trying to find evidence maybe from the church fathers or past popes, that believed marriage was a good thing.

I’ve had friends that have said that the Catholic Church also thought that sex was evil. **

I know this is all hearsay, and not true, at least I don’t believe so. But I wanted to provide evidence.

Thanks

Aisha

 

[BlestOne]

*From a letter by Tertullian, an EarlyChurch Father, to his wife, ca. 202 AD, illustrating the great esteem for the sacrament of holy matrimony in the days of the early Catholic Church.

How beautiful, then, the marriage of two Christians, two who are one in hope, one in desire, one in the way of life they follow, one in the religion they practice.

They are as brother and sister, both servants of the same Master. Nothing divides them, either in flesh or in Spirit. They are in very truth, two in one flesh; and where there is but one flesh there is also but one spirit.

They pray together, they worship together, they fast together; instructing one another, encouraging one another, strengthening one another.

http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/pics/Marriage_Theology_Of_the_Body_Tertullian.jpgSide by side they face difficulties and persecution, share their consolations. They have no secrets from one another, they never shun each other’s company; they never bring sorrow to each other’s hearts… Psalms and hymns they sing to one another.

Hearing and seeing this, Christ rejoices. To such as these He gives His peace. Where there are two together, there also He is present, and where He is, there evil is not.
*

 

[Will_B]

Ephesians 5 … Is what has been taught over the years… Some denominations seem to leave out the duty of the husband…

Husbands are to love their wife as Christ loved the Church… That’s an almost impossible task, but this is the standard set for man.

The wife is subject to her husband… Not a doormat, not a slave, but subject to a husband who is in turn subject to Christ.

This is the text used by the Church… It has been abused because often only the roll of the wife is taught…

**Wives, be in subjection unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. **

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, and Christ also is the head of the church, being himself the saviour of the body.

**24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives also be to their husbands in everything. **

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it;

**26 that he might sanctify it, having cleansed it by the washing of water with the word, **

27 that he might present the church to himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

**28 Even so ought husbands also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his own wife loveth himself: **

**29 for no man ever hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as Christ also the church; **30 because we are members of his body.

 

[puzzleannie]

Hey everyone,

I first want to say I love this forum. I’ve learned so much, in such a short time.

I would like to know how the Catholic Church viewed women and marriage before the Protestant reformation. I’ve heard over and over again, that the Protestant Reformation brought equality to women, and that marriage became a good thing and not “despicable” as the Catholic Church taught.

Thanks
Aisha

I would challenge your critics to provide proof that the Catholic Church actually did teach such a thing. I would also invite him to read some of the Reformers on the topic of women, for instance, the Puritans “he for God alone, she for God in him” on the topic of marriage and women.

 

[lvscandy]

I would challenge your critics to provide proof that the Catholic Church actually did teach such a thing. I would also invite him to read some of the Reformers on the topic of women, for instance, the Puritans “he for God alone, she for God in him” on the topic of marriage and women.

Thanks. I’ll be sure to ask. I’m sure they won’t be able to prove it. Has there been any church father, or priest that may have spoken against marriage?

Aisha

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Thanks. I’ll be sure to ask. I’m sure they won’t be able to prove it. Has there been any church father, or priest that may have spoken against marriage?

Aisha

Jerome had some strange ideas about it.

Abelard taught marriage was the only sacrament that didn’t confer grace.

 

[gcnuss]

Thanks. I’ll be sure to ask. I’m sure they won’t be able to prove it. Has there been any church father, or priest that may have spoken against marriage?

Well, in 1st Corinthians St. Paul spoke of it as a last resort to avoid sin:

To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion

That doesn’t seem to be an overwhelming endorsement.

 

[Cattitude]

I’ve heard these arguments from friends, and from liberal feminists. They make the claim that the Catholic Church encouraged chastity over marriage, and that it was some how better.

I don’t know if this is your mistake or theirs, maybe you mean celibacy here?

All Christians are called to chastity, married or single.

From the CCC:

2337 Chastity means the successful integration of sexuality within the person and thus the inner unity of man in his bodily and spiritual being. Sexuality, in which man’s belonging to the bodily and biological world is expressed, becomes personal and truly human when it is integrated into the relationship of one person to another, in the complete and lifelong mutual gift of a man and a woman.

The virtue of chastity therefore involves the integrity of the person and the integrality of the gift.

2349 “People should cultivate [chastity] in the way that is suited to their state of life. Some profess virginity or consecrated celibacy which enables them to give themselves to God alone with an undivided heart in a remarkable manner. Others live in the way prescribed for all by the moral law, whether they are married or single.” Married people are called to live conjugal chastity; others practice chastity in continence:

There are three forms of the virtue of chastity: the first is that of spouses, the second that of widows, and the third that of virgins. We do not praise any one of them to the exclusion of the others. . . . This is what makes for the richness of the discipline of the Church.

 

[Cattitude]

Well, in 1st Corinthians St. Paul spoke of it as a last resort to avoid sin:

To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion

According tot he commentary of the Navarre bible, Paul was responding to a claim that celibacy was the only state of life for a Christian. People were taking it to an extreme. So, while not giving a particularly great endorsement of marriage, he is simply pointing out that marriage is something good and holy for those who are called it to. And he does say some good things about it, too.

I think a major point here is that we need to listen to God’s calling for us - whether it is celibacy, married life, religious vocation, etc. Each one has it’s place in the body of Chirst.