If I may ask, you stated at the end of your comment, “But we still do confess to another to be held accountable for our sins”. Who is this “another”? I was once protestant myself and no one I ever knew in my church ever did that, except to Christ in personal prayer. So, how many protestants are confessing their sins to others? this is new to me.I think it is because we know that God is everywhere and he knows our hearts. If we pray to Him & repent for our sins and turn away from them, then God has already forgotten them. We don’t feel the need to confess to a priest and be absolved because we can tell God directly, but we still do confess to another to be held accountable for our sins.
Is it safe to say then that a Protestant only needs to feel regret for a sin in order to be forgiven, or MUST they speak of the sin verbally either during prayer or upon confessing to another…?I think it is because we know that God is everywhere and he knows our hearts. If we pray to Him & repent for our sins and turn away from them, then God has already forgotten them. We don’t feel the need to confess to a priest and be absolved because we can tell God directly, but we still do confess to another to be held accountable for our sins.
What I meant by that was if you are committing a sin over and over again, it is recommended to confess to another Christian in the church. Our church has membership counselors and elders that help members. So you can confess to your membership counselor & they can pray with you & hold you accountable. Of course, you also repent to God in prayer in private as well.If I may ask, you stated at the end of your comment, “But we still do confess to another to be held accountable for our sins”. Who is this “another”? I was once protestant myself and no one I ever knew in my church ever did that, except to Christ in personal prayer. So, how many protestants are confessing their sins to others? this is new to me.
If you are confessing it to another, then, yes you need to say it out loud. The elders & membership counselors have heard it all and want to help. It is not necessary as far as I know to say the sin out loud while repenting in private with God, but it can help, I imagine . If you say a general prayer, ‘I repent for my sins’ then God knows the sin even if you don’t say it out loud. Also, if you pray in the Holy Spirit, God is also reading your heart & knows if you are truly repentent. You don’t have to feel regret to repent. You should do so regardless of fickle feelings. But for most people with really heavy sins, guilt and regret are the main things that lead to repentance.Is it safe to say then that a Protestant only needs to feel regret for a sin in order to be forgiven, or MUST they speak of the sin verbally either during prayer or upon confessing to another…?
So, let me ask…you have not gone to the elders and membership counselors yourself?If you are confessing it to another, then, yes you need to say it out loud. The elders & membership counselors have heard it all and want to help. It is not necessary as far as I know to say the sin out loud while repenting in private with God, but it can help, I imagine . If you say a general prayer, ‘I repent for my sins’ then God knows the sin even if you don’t say it out loud. Also, if you pray in the Holy Spirit, God is also reading your heart & knows if you are truly repentent. You don’t have to feel regret to repent. You should do so regardless of fickle feelings. But for most people with really heavy sins, guilt and regret are the main things that lead to repentance.
Okay…can you explain what is David saying to Nathan here, and what is Nathan saying in return:There is no reason to confess to anyone but God. Although if we have hurt another person, we need to go to that person and ask for forgiveness.
The scriptures don’t say anything about confessing our sins to another human being. I love going to the Father many, many times a day. What a blessing!
If there is no reason to confess to anyone but God then why did Christ give the Church the authority to forgive sins:There is no reason to confess to anyone but God. Although if we have hurt another person, we need to go to that person and ask for forgiveness.
The scriptures don’t say anything about confessing our sins to another human being. I love going to the Father many, many times a day. What a blessing!
As I understand it, the Lutheran understudying of this is that the Church can announce and proclaim God’s forgiveness, but that it’s ultimately it is God who is doing the forgiving.“Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.” (John 20:21-23)
Yes, of course it is God who is doing the forgiving. But he gave the Church the authority to act on his behalf. The priest does not forgive someone with his own authority, but rather with Christ’s authority. He acts in the person of Christ. And what the priest does is binding both on earth and in heaven. “Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” This is incredible authority but we must remember that it is given to Christ’s own Church, of which He is the Head and which is guided by the Holy Spirit. The sacrament of Reconciliation is much more than just an announcement or a proclamation. It actually has an effect upon the soul and accomplishes what it signifies; the cleansing of our souls. And yes, it is God, not the priest, who cleanses our soul.As I understand it, the Lutheran understudying of this is that the Church can announce and proclaim God’s forgiveness, but that it’s ultimately it is God who is doing the forgiving.
I love this part of scripture. Thanks for posting it.If there is no reason to confess to anyone but God then why did Christ give the Church the authority to forgive sins:
“Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.” (John 20:21-23)
Why would Jesus have said this if he didn’t mean it? And if he meant it then should we not accept what he said? Christ had the authority to forgive sins and gave that authority to his Apostles and their successors.
I don’t see how your translation changes anything. If we agree that “they have been forgiven” is accurate, the forgiveness still does not take place until the sinns have been forgiven by those to whom Christ gave that authority and who act in and through that authority. God has not already forgiven our sins. They are not forgiven until we ask for and receive that forgiveness. This is true even if you believe that you can obtain this without the aid of the sacrament (which, by the way, we also believe, provided one has perfect contrition for one’s sins or intends to confess but is prevented through no fault of his own.) I think you may be confusing “redemption” with “forgiveness”. There’s a big difference. Christ’s redemption was done once, for all men, yet not all men are forgiven, nor are all men saved. So obtaining forgiveness does not simply relfect what God has done. Redemption reflects what God has done. He has made it possible, through his redemptive sacrifice, for men to enter into heaven and he has given us the means to obtain forgiveness through his presence in the sacrament which is administered by the one who posesses the authority given by Christ himself, the priest.I love this part of scripture. Thanks for posting it.
The expressions they are forgiven and it is witheld both represent perfect tense verbs in Greek and could also be translated “they have been forgiven” and “it has been witheld” since the perfect gives the sense of completed action with continuing results in the present. The idea is not that individual Christians or churches have authority on their own to forgive or not forgive people, but rather that as the church proclaims the gospel message of forgivenessof sins in the power of the Holy Spirit, it proclaims that those who believe in Jesus have their sins forgiven, and those that do not believe in him do not have their sins forgiven, which simply reflects what God in Heaven has already done. See Matt 16:19.
Then I hope you find time to read this: calledtocommunion.com/2009/07/ecclesial-deism/Huh??? I don’t see the connection with the story of David and Nathan. What am I missing. David was a murderer and an adulterer, but he knew how to repent. There are entire Psalms that show his grieving because of his sinful behavior. And… David went right to the Lord.
I would like to understand what you are trying to say. Can you please try again?
Look at this verse again…David was a murderer and an adulterer, but he knew how to repent. There are entire Psalms that show his grieving because of his sinful behavior. And… David went right to the Lord.
Are you talking about Psalm 51…so let me ask…did David write this psalm after or before Nathan came to him, and made him realize the gravity of his sin? And he learned of the consequences of his sin?There are entire Psalms that show his grieving because of his sinful behavior. And… David went right to the Lord.